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Season-Long Lines Thread

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http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2011/11/red_wings_mike_commodore_to_ma.html

Here is Detroit's lineup:

Hudler-Datsyuk-Cleary

Franzen-Zetterberg-Bertuzzi

Filppula-Helm-Abdelkader

Miller-Emmerton-Holmstrom

Lidstrom-White

Kronwall-Stuart

Ericsson-Commodore

Howard (starting)

Conklin

I know that the lines get mixed up a lot, but looking at this fourth line.....it's just SO painful. What is that line supposed to provide?

Edited by Zetts

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babcock's revamped the lines again, for practice. 11/4

Cleary-Datsyuk-Bertuzzi

Filppula-Zetterberg-Franzen

Hudler-Helm-Abdelkader

Miller-Emmerton-Holmstrom

*Eaves

Lidstrom-White

Kronwall-Stuart

Ericsson-Kindl/Commodore

Howard

Conklin

...Put your best player with two guys that can't do anything with the puck? Seems pretty f-ing stupid to me.

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Fill - Dats - Franzen (line needs that guy who will get the messy goals in, aka mule. plus mule and fill have great chemistry. i also really wanna see fill and dats playing together more as well)

Homer - Z - Huds (i actually like the way homer looks out there right now. huds deserves another shot at the top 6 as well, he had some spark this season b4 our 5 game slump)

Cleary - Helm - Tuzzi (im actually worried helm and cleary will make tuzzi work too hard and he'll rack up more penalties lol, but good line)

Miller - Abby - Eaves (typical fourth line. nothing wrong with that)

That's exactly what I would want to see. That or switch Hudler and Filppula.

Despite how badly Cleary and Bertuzzi are playing I think they'd fit well with Helm and if they got down to a grinding style they'd be better off for it. I think Cleary and Bertuzzi sometimes struggle when they are put with skill guys.

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Filppula-Datsyuk-Holmstrom/Hudler (Datsyuk-Hudler have had success to a degree together, Filppula-Datsyuk-Holmstrom has been familar and successful in the past)

Franzen-Zetterberg-Cleary (absolutely dynamite defensive line in the 2009 playoffs, all three are offensively capable obviously)

Abdelkader-Helm-Bertuzzi (successful early in the season)

Miller/Hudler-Emmerton-Eaves/Hudler/Holmstrom (not bad alternatives for a 4th)

Think that covers everybody.

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here's to bertuzzi's "illness" lasting the entire season (without having any serious long-term impacts, of course)

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HERE'S HOW YOU FIX THE DAMN LINES:

Filppula-Datsyuk-Holmstrom

Franzen-Zetterberg-Cleary

Brunnstrom/Hudler(/Nyquist)-Helm-Abdelkader

Miller-Emmerton-Eaves(/Murak)

*Bertuzzi

Lidstrom-White

Kronwall-Stuart

Ericsson-Kindl/Commodore(/Smith)

Howard

Conklin

PP1: Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Franzen, Lidstrom-White

PP2: Franzen-Filppula-Cleary, Kronwall-Stuart

PK1: Helm-Miller, Kronwall-Stuart

PK2: Emmerton-Eaves, Ericsson-White

Step 1: Scrath Bertuzzi indefinitely (or release him, I don't care). He ruins whatever line he's on. There's no reason he should even be on the roster, let alone dressed while solid players like Hudler, Brunnstron, Nyquist, Miller, Emmerton and Eaves are scratched or in the minors. He's big and strong...but he's arguably the softest player on the team next to Hudler. He doesn't hit, he doesn't fight, he doesn't intimidate. He's old, he's in bad shape, he's slow, he's tired, he's lazy, he has horrible defensive awareness, he's constantly leaving people wide open in the zone, and is just an incredible defensive liability all-around. He can't carry the puck, he can't accept a pass, he makes horrible passes, he turns the puck over, he has terrible offensive awareness, he's constantly going offsides and killing attacks, he blocks more shots than he re-directs in front of the net, and he just ruins offensive flow in general. Oh, and he takes tons of stupid penatlies to top it all off. Babcock had the balls to scratch Modano when he wasn't helping the team last season. He should have the balls to scratch (or release) Bertuzzi now that he's killing the team this season. Him being sick last game was the best thing that could've possibly happened to our team. I could go on all day.

Step 2: Datsyuk and Filppula have the best chemistry on the team. Put them together.

Step 3: Zetterberg and Franzen have the next best chemistry on the team. Put them together.

Step 4: Holmstrom has great chemistry with Pav and Val. Put him in front on that line. Abby can rotate in, as needed.

Step 5: Cleary has great chemistry with Hank and Mule. Put him in front on that line.

Step 6: Miller-Emmerton-Eaves form a great 4th 'shut-down line' ala Draper-Helm-Eaves the last two seasons. There's no reason whatsoever that those three shouldn't play together on the fourth line every night (until Mursak gets back, at least).

Step 7: Helm and Abdelkader are really emerging as legitimate offensive threats. Put them together on the third line. Rotate Brunnstrom and Hudler as the third man on that line until someone clicks.

Step 8: At some point in the season Nyquist should get a legitimate shot to beat out Brunnstrom or Hudler on the third line, and Smith should get a legitimate shot to beat out Kindl or Commodore on the third pairing.

Edited by blueadams

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I know over the last year or two a lot of posters on this board have wanted to see Holmstrom on the 4th line but I think you've got to like the way he's been playing so far this year. I think people underrate how much space and trouble he creates when he's out on the ice with Datsyuk.

To me, Holmstrom is so much more useful on this team when he is playing with Datsyuk than when he is on the fourth line. If I were drawing up the lines I would have:

Filppula/Cleary - Datsyuk - Holmstrom

Cleary/Filppula - Zetterberg - Franzen

Hudler - Helm - Abdelkader

Bertuzzi - Emmerton - Brunnstrom/Miller

Or

Hudler/Filppula - Datsyuk - Holmstrom

Filppula/Hudler - Zetterberg - Franzen

Cleary - Helm - Bertuzzi

Abdelkader - Emmerton - Brunnstrom/Miller

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PP1: Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Franzen, Lidstrom-White

PP2: Franzen-Filppula-Cleary, Kronwall-Stuart

Double-shift Franzen, put out offensively clueless Stuart, and no Homer or Hudler? Kindl and Ericsson are both better choices than Stuart, and if Homer is in the lineup it's for PP; his 5-on-5 play is mediocre whether he's with Dats or Emmerton. How about one of these:

Zetterberg/Datsyuk/Holmstrom/Lidstrom/White

Franzen/Filppula/Cleary/Kronwall/Hudler

The following use Lidstrom/White and Kronwall/Kindl on defense:

Franzen/Datsyuk/Holmstrom

Hudler/Zetterberg/Cleary

Zetterberg/Datsyuk/Holmstrom

Franzen/Hudler/Cleary

Hudler/Datsyuk/Holmstrom

Franzen/Zetterberg/Cleary

Cleary/Datsyuk/Hudler

Franzen/Zetterberg/Holmstrom

If Cleary continues not producing, pull him out and stick Filppula in one of the last four combos.

Step 4: Holmstrom has great chemistry with Pav and Val. Put him in front on that line. Abby can rotate in, as needed.

Are you serious?

"Jiri Hudler is one of the best offensive players on the team, and has great chemistry with Datsyuk. So we're going to put Abdelkader on Datsyuk's line."

Step 7: Helm and Abdelkader are really emerging as legitimate offensive threats. Put them together on the third line. Rotate Brunnstrom and Hudler as the third man on that line until someone clicks.

Step 8: At some point in the season Nyquist should get a legitimate shot to beat out Brunnstrom or Hudler on the third line, and Smith should get a legitimate shot to beat out Kindl or Commodore on the third pairing.

Helm's speed is dangerous, but he doesn't have the hands to finish. Abdelkader is just painful to watch offensively.

Brunnstrom needs to earn a spot in the top 12 before we talk about someone having to earn his spot.

Kindl has outplayed Ericsson, and Smith did get a legitimate shot to beat out Kindl in the preseason and wasn't even close.

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]

"Jiri Hudler is one of the best offensive players on the team, and

Ugh...he has been given a chance and has proven that he is not one of the best. Of course who else are we gonna put there, certainly not Franzen. Let's try Flip - Dats - Holmes

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Ugh...he has been given a chance

When? When he scored in the one game he played with Datsyuk/Cleary? Or when he scored 3 points in 4 games with Flip and Franzen?

How about last year when he scored 14 points in 11 games with Datsyuk/Cleary? Or the month before that, played mostly with Flip, when he scored 12 points in 14 games?

That's about the extent of his "chance" at being a top-six forward at any point in his career.

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babcock shifted the lines again today - http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2011/11/red_wings_fabian_brunnstrom_ge.html

Cleary-Datsyuk-Holmstrom

Filppula-Zetterberg-Franzen

Hudler-Helm-Abdelkader

Miller-Emmerton-Brunnstrom

Bertuzzi

Hudler

Lidstrom-White

Kronwall-Stuart

Ericsson-Kindl

Commodore

THOUGHTS:

#1) I hate, HATE, HATE it when Babcock puts the best player in the league in between two guys that can't do anything with the puck!!! The lines are getting a little closer to what I'd like to see, but that's still a big big issue for me. Simple fix though. Swap Cleary and Filppula. Then you've got two excellent scoring lines...Filppula-Datsyuk-Holmstrom and Franzen-Zetterberg-Cleary. I'd love that.

#2) Brunnstrom's really starting to impress me. He doesn't look it, but he's really quite big. Pretty solid defensively. Very smooth with the puck. Hard-working. And improving rapidly. I'd like to see how he fits into to Hudler's current spot on the third line. Brunnstrom-Helm-Abdelkader. Very worth trying.

#3) I loved the Draper-Helm-Eaves line the last couple of years. Great shut-down line. Great energy. Very consistent. Really the back-bone of our squad for brief periods. In Miller-Emmerton-Eaves I think we could put together a very similar grouping.

#4) Bertuzzi - I've explained why I don't think he should be on the team very thoroughly.

#5) Hudler - He's just not getting it. I'm done with him. Super talented. Turns out that IS trumped by being small, slow and lazy. Give Brunnstrom his shot. Then Nyquist.

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#5) Hudler - He's just not getting it. I'm done with him. Super talented. Turns out that IS trumped by being small, slow and lazy. Give Brunnstrom his shot. Then Nyquist.

Hudler is small. Nobody is disputing that. Hudler isn't a fast skater, but he's not slow; probably average and definitely faster than he used to be. And he's never been lazy. If you think Brunnstrom is a better player than Hudler, you're nuts.

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Hudler is small. Nobody is disputing that. Hudler isn't a fast skater, but he's not slow; probably average and definitely faster than he used to be. And he's never been lazy. If you think Brunnstrom is a better player than Hudler, you're nuts.

1) idk if i'd say brunnstrom is better than hudler, but i would rather see him on that third line with helm and abby. at least for a trial period. i'd make hudler compete with eaves and miller on the fourth line.

2) i do think hudler is lazy.

Filppula-Datsyuk-Holmstrom

Franzen-Zetterberg-Cleary

Brunnstrom/Bertuzzi-Helm-Abdelkader

Miller-Emmerton-Eaves/Hudler

...top two lines are set...let bertuzzi battle it out with brunnstrom on the third line...let hudler battle it out with eaves on the fourth line.

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Once again Babcock has Pavs stuck with Cleary at practice today. I think this is a BIG MISTAKE by Babs because it provides Pavs with NOTHING to work with. Hudler deserves to be up with Pavs more than Cleary does right now and more importantly Hudler actually has a good ability to shoot the puck. Having Cleary with Pavs is simply a waste of time. Cleary belongs on the 3rd line and 2nd line if injuries occur.

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Fedorov-Bure-Mogilny

Datsyuk-Ovechkin-S.Kozlov

Malkin-Larionov-Semin

Samsonov-Afinogenov-Burmistrov

-Brylin/Anisimov

Zubov-Fetisov

Gonchar-A.Markov

Konstantinov-D.Markov

Look out. No reason to even play defense with that top line! :yowza:

25-man roster:

Mogilny/Fedorov/Bure

Kharlamov/Larionov/Makarov

S.Kozlov/Datsyuk/Kovalev

Ovechkin/Yashin/Kovalchuk

Samsonov

Zhamnov

Fetisov/Konstantinov

Kasatonov/Zubov

Gonchar/D.Markov

A.Markov

Gusarov

Tretiak

Konovalenko

Khabibulin

Once again Babcock has Pavs stuck with Cleary at practice today. I think this is a BIG MISTAKE by Babs because it provides Pavs with NOTHING to work with. Hudler deserves to be up with Pavs more than Cleary does right now and more importantly Hudler actually has a good ability to shoot the puck. Having Cleary with Pavs is simply a waste of time. Cleary belongs on the 3rd line and 2nd line if injuries occur.

The big issue with having Cleary alongside Dats is Cleary, not Dats. Cleary needs to get going, and it's clear(l)y not working. The combination has been one of the team's best in recent years and Babs obviously is hoping for that chemistry to just kick in, the same way Dats/Z, Dats/Homer, Z/Mule, Flip/Huds, or Flip/Franzen can suddenly kick in. But it's not working. And he's been there all season. It's time to move Cleary not for Dats' sake, but for Cleary's. Move him to a line with Z or even Helm, and get him going there. Get other players on Dats' line who have shown chemistry with him and have had some decent stretches this season (Huds, Flip, Franzen, Homer) and this might all be sorted out. We can't win games by scoring a goal every game and then having a couple of 5-goal outbursts. It doesn't matter if you win twice scoring five goals; two wins in eight games, scoring a total of sixteen goals, is still a lottery team. And this roster should be competing for the conference championship.

Edited by eva unit zero

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Okay, I've been absent from this board for far too long, and this thread is right in my wheelhouse, so here is my take on the line combos.....

For me, you have to play Datsyuk and Zetterberg together. I know that they've appeared to struggle when played together so far this year, but the entire team has struggled.

Also, I just hate Cleary playing on the top line. I like the guy, but he just doesn't seem to fit.

So.....here is how I'd line everyone up.

Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Holmstrom (Don't rag on Homer too bad.....he really is most useful fetching pucks and has really seemed, dare I say it, quicker than usual.)

Hudler, Filppula, Franzen (Yeah, I actually like this line.....and I think Hudler really plays well with Flip.)

Bertuzzi, Abdelkader, Cleary

Miller, Helm, Eaves (Rotate in Brunnstrom with Miller.)

Lidstrom, White

Stuart, Kronwall

Kindl, Ericsson

Rotate Commodore and Kindl, and I think he'll push Kindl to play at a higher level.

So, that's it for now.

Go ahead and rake me over the coals......I know you will..

LOL

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How could anyone want to split up F-Z-F?

And Bertuzzi needs to keep on sitting.

I would split up F-Z-F simply because I think we need to keep Datsyuk & Zetterberg together, and I think the lines round out better overall.

Putting Holmstrom on a grinding line minimizes him badly.

I think Hudler might do better with more minutes, and he's always played well with Filppula. Look at the goal yesterday.

And I actually wish that Bertuzzi were gone, but since he's not, a Cleary-Abby-Bertuzzi combo is a nice third line to play against other 3rd lines.

If Bert were to sit, I'd like to see Brunnstrom take his place on the 3rd line, with Cleary playing the right side.

Also, I love Helm with Eaves and Miller....or Emmerton.....or Mursak.

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