• Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
Wingzman91

Open Season on Ducks

Rate this topic

109 posts in this topic

Again... why on earth would Holland want to acquire yet another playmaking center? And, more, why would he trade one of the team's best goal-scorers for such? This would lead to a net decrease in goal scoring.

Wow, I wasn't aware that the NHL was such a simple, logical place. The great goal-scorer Franzen has broken 30 goals just once, is past 30, picking up injuries, and signed to a monster contract that rewards him with $$$$$$$$$$$ whatever he does (which is often as little as possible).

Getzlaf is an all-star, Franzen isn't. Datsyuk-Getzlaf gives us a 1-2 punch that would give the rest of the WC kittens. Anytime you can aqcuire a top, high-end player for non-star players, you should. Players of the quality of Getzlaf (or Perry, or Ryan) don't come on the market very often.

I disagree with your examples, as none of them are d-bag weasels of Corey Perry magnitude

I can only assume you weren't watching Hockey when Chelios was a Blackhawk and Samuelsson was a Penguin?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

people forget that Mule is a BEAST in the playoffs when he is healthy. He has 72 points in 83 playoff games in his career. He was playing injured last year in the playoffs but here's his point total before that:

2008 18 in 16 games

2009 23 in 23 games

2010 16 in 12 games

Why would we even think of trading one of the top playoff performers in the league? Because he's streaky in the regular season? Are you people frickin crazy?

You have to give up something if you want something. In 2001 Holland traded away perhaps one of the best playoff performers AND prolific regular season scorer we had in order to get a goalie he felt we needed. He traded Kozlov AND a 1st for Hasek. I think an exchange that involved Franzen for either Getzlaf or Perry would be a great move. Franzen, Hudler and Kindl are three players from the big club who can and should be shopped come deadline day. If Holland could trade any combo these three plus prospects and get a Getzlaf and or Perry and or Ryan, then it is a no brainer...

Edited by LeftWinger
Rick D and Nev like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So you're suggesting that we trade a player whose play you dislike for another whose play you will similarly dislike. Your own sarcasm is working against you.

By the way, Franzen currently has 33 points and is a +20. Getzlaf? 25 points (a whopping six goals--what, exactly, would we do with another playmaking center?) and a -19. Getzlaf is playing with some very talented hockey players. The team he's on isn't going to make all the difference.

I wasn't entirely suggesting a trade of Franzen for Getzlaf. Just implying that the notion the Red Wings would never have a streaky or lazy player is laughable. You dismissed Getzlaf becuase of those qualities -- I was replying that Franzen is exactly those things, in addition to being an inferior player overall.

Besides, it would take a ton more than just Franzen to land Getzlaf, even with Getzlaf having a down year so far. I really don't think plus/minus is a great stat to compare the two. Of course Franzen is going to have a better rating than a guy playing on one of the worst teams defensively in the league. Getzlaf has practically been a PPG player at least his entire career. Franzen hasn't even come close yet. Franzen also plays with Pavel Datsyuk, a pretty talented linemate in his own right.

There's plenty of possibilities for Getzlaf with the Red Wings, even if he is primarily a playmaker. Filppula is playing far better on the wing so you could use Getzlaf as his center and put Pavel and Z back together. I think that makes the top-six quite a bit more dynamic than the one with Franzen in it. I don't buy your theory at all the Red Wings offense would suffer more with Getzlaf as opposed to Franzen.

Edited by GoWings1905

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sold on Getzlaf as something this team would seriously improve on. If we got rid of Franzen we would still need a guy who is a threat to score goals.

Perry is a bonafide goal scorer and can definitely bring something huge to the team if we trade a core player. I don't care if he is a ******. He can be our ******. And I'll even trade my Franzen shirts for Perry shirts if we make a trade with the two involved.

Gowings: Datsyuk and Zetterberg shouldn't be tried again. They don't mesh the same way they did in 08 and 09, and I think it hurts the team to force them back together for the sake of acquired players.

Edited by Doc Holliday
F.Michael likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

People need to take Franzen off the trading block. I know even I had a glimmer of a thought about trading him early in the season, but he's having a good year so far and he's still clutch (half his goals are game winners). Plus, his proven playoff performance means he stays. As the year progresses there are fewer and fewer players worth trading. Stuart is having a good year, and our defense is so good right now Holland won't want to mess with that.

So it'd have to be a forward or pick trade. And nobody wants the forwards we could spare, at least not for a great player in exchange.

Unless he can find a team who needs to rebuild and can offer just picks for a player.

And let me point out that Franzen is having a better year than Perry. Perry is not some amazing player who will change this team. He's good, but not the player the Wings need.

Edited by VM1138

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sold on Getzlaf as something this team would seriously improve on. If we got rid of Franzen we would still need a guy who is a threat to score goals.

Perry is a bonafide goal scorer and can definitely bring something huge to the team if we trade a core player. I don't care if he is a ******. He can be our ******. And I'll even trade my Franzen shirts for Perry shirts if we make a trade with the two involved.

Gowings: Datsyuk and Zetterberg shouldn't be tried again. They don't mesh the same way they did in 08 and 09, and I think it hurts the team to force them back together for the sake of acquired players.

I pretty much agree with that too. I think they are better off apart especially with Filppula's emergence at wing, but they almost have to stay separated too now out of necessity. The depth at center (or lack of) pretty much means D & Z have to center their own lines, where adding Getzlaf definitely eliminates that need. Maybe Z could find some of that goal-scoring touch again playing with Pavel for an extended time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

People need to take Franzen off the trading block. I know even I had a glimmer of a thought about trading him early in the season, but he's having a good year so far and he's still clutch (half his goals are game winners). Plus, his proven playoff performance means he stays. As the year progresses there are fewer and fewer players worth trading. Stuart is having a good year, and our defense is so good right now Holland won't want to mess with that.

So it'd have to be a forward or pick trade. And nobody wants the forwards we could spare, at least not for a great player in exchange.

Unless he can find a team who needs to rebuild and can offer just picks for a player.

And let me point out that Franzen is having a better year than Perry. Perry is not some amazing player who will change this team. He's good, but not the player the Wings need.

I agree with you for this year. However, this team may be hindered in ~6 years by Mule's contract. IMO Mule is being offered here because of the length of his contract.

Ryan is 24 and Mule's best season had 2 more points in 7 more games than Ryan's worst season. Perry is 26 and has a higher PPG than Mule.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I guarantee you that Ken Holland would not trade for him. When has Ken Holland ever signed a player of Perry's character?

I disagree with your examples, as none of them are d-bag weasels of Corey Perry magnitude.

Well it's more or less a matter of opinion...The examples I used I feel are as bad - if not worse than Perry...Chris "I would never play for Detroit" Chelios to Ulf "I go for the knees" Sammuelsson, to Wendel "I punch 1st and ask questions later" Clark to Todd "I end careers with a cheap shot" Bertuzzi.

Yeah your right - Perry is an ass when compared toi these guys :rolleyes:

Detroit # 1 Fan likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You should be shot for suggesting that that ginormous douchebag ever put on a Red Wings jersey.

The fact that he's a dip!@#$ weasel disqualifies him from Ken Holland's consideration anyway.

So you're suggesting that we trade a player whose play you dislike for another whose play you will similarly dislike. Your own sarcasm is working against you.

By the way, Franzen currently has 33 points and is a +20. Getzlaf? 25 points (a whopping six goals--what, exactly, would we do with another playmaking center?) and a -19. Getzlaf is playing with some very talented hockey players. The team he's on isn't going to make all the difference.

And Anaheim will want Tatar--an unproven scorer--and Stuart--on the last year of his contract--why? By the way, Stuart sold his house in San Jose.

And... we want Perry WHY?

You can't figure out why the Red Wings could benefit from having a guy who scored 50 goals last season (Franzens best is 34), is good for 70+ points even if he doesn't score 50 again (Franzens best is 59 points), is a big body not afraid to go to the net, performs well in the playoffs, and is a pain in the ass to play against?

I hate Perry, but he would make the Wings a better team. I know that for Mule it's all about the playoffs, and I'm not saying I'd swap him for Perry. It's easy to sit back and crap all over ideas people suggest, but this one is not as insane as you make it out to be.

I guarantee you that Ken Holland would not trade for him. When has Ken Holland ever signed a player of Perry's character?

I disagree with your examples, as none of them are d-bag weasels of Corey Perry magnitude.

You're right. They were all much bigger douchebags than Perry. Chelios and Samuellsson were much dirtier players than anything Perry has ever done. Perry doesn't even reach the level of Pronger. And Bert's not a dirty player overall, but he did end a player's career. You can also add to the list Dino Ciccarelli, and probably a few others I'm not thinking of right now.

Perry's a d-bag because most of his antics are stuff like what Maltby used to do. Take little cheapshots and hide behind the ref. But he's an extremely talented player who has a ton of upside.

Getzlaf I wouldn't be so excited about. I've liked elements of his play and he's often a Wings killer, but from what I've heard overall from Ducks fans, they're unhappy with his effort on a nightly basis.

Edited by haroldsnepsts

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

People need to take Franzen off the trading block. I know even I had a glimmer of a thought about trading him early in the season, but he's having a good year so far and he's still clutch (half his goals are game winners). Plus, his proven playoff performance means he stays. As the year progresses there are fewer and fewer players worth trading. Stuart is having a good year, and our defense is so good right now Holland won't want to mess with that.

So it'd have to be a forward or pick trade. And nobody wants the forwards we could spare, at least not for a great player in exchange.

Unless he can find a team who needs to rebuild and can offer just picks for a player.

And let me point out that Franzen is having a better year than Perry. Perry is not some amazing player who will change this team. He's good, but not the player the Wings need.

Franzen has 16 goals and 17 assists in 39 games on a very good Wings team.

Perry has 15 goals and 15 assists in 38 games on a pretty awful Ducks team.

I think saying Franzen is having a better year is a stretch.

Selanne would be perfect, but there's no way he's coming here. Sounds like he wants to end his career with the Ducks, has a NMC, and seems to have a healthy dislike for Detroit. The Ducks were dangling Ryan earlier in the season, so maybe they'll start shopping him again.

Edited by haroldsnepsts
Wingzman91 and F.Michael like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sold on Getzlaf as something this team would seriously improve on. If we got rid of Franzen we would still need a guy who is a threat to score goals.

Perry is a bonafide goal scorer and can definitely bring something huge to the team if we trade a core player. I don't care if he is a ******. He can be our ******. And I'll even trade my Franzen shirts for Perry shirts if we make a trade with the two involved.

Gowings: Datsyuk and Zetterberg shouldn't be tried again. They don't mesh the same way they did in 08 and 09, and I think it hurts the team to force them back together for the sake of acquired players.

Agreed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

IMO Ryan is more likely than Perry because of Perry's season last year (Perry will command more). Ryan has scored 30+ goals in all of his full NHL seasons.

Edited by WorkingOvertime

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Franzen has 16 goals and 17 assists in 39 games on a very good Wings team.

Perry has 15 goals and 15 assists in 38 games on a pretty awful Ducks team.

I think saying Franzen is having a better year is a stretch.

Selanne would be perfect, but there's no way he's coming here. Sounds like he wants to end his career with the Ducks, has a NMC, and seems to have a healthy dislike for Detroit. The Ducks were dangling Ryan earlier in the season, so maybe they'll start shopping him again.

I see your point, but Perry just seems to be a flash in the pan to me. Wasn't it Cheechoo who scored 50, too? And I'm not saying Franzen is light years better than Perry, but Franzen has rarely had a healthy season. Perry has had three good seasons. Since Franzen turned into the guy we all know in 2008, he had a 59 point season, and then after that the only close to full season he had was 2010, when the team was decimated with injuries and everybody struggled. Now that he's having a healthy season he's almost a point per game player, he should easily top is 55ish point plateau. I'm just saying that when everything is taken into consideration, it's not as clear cut as some here say it is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

People need to take Franzen off the trading block. I know even I had a glimmer of a thought about trading him early in the season, but he's having a good year so far and he's still clutch (half his goals are game winners). Plus, his proven playoff performance means he stays. As the year progresses there are fewer and fewer players worth trading. Stuart is having a good year, and our defense is so good right now Holland won't want to mess with that.

So it'd have to be a forward or pick trade. And nobody wants the forwards we could spare, at least not for a great player in exchange.

Unless he can find a team who needs to rebuild and can offer just picks for a player.

And let me point out that Franzen is having a better year than Perry. Perry is not some amazing player who will change this team. He's good, but not the player the Wings need.

So if Anaheim says they'll give you Perry (or Getzlaf) in exchange for Franzen, you're not buying?

If so, you are crazy. IF I am Holland, I am seeing what it'll take to get one of Getzlaf/Perry or Ryan along with Selanne for the Cup run... But that is just me, a 41 year old rental who scores when he wants and Perry the reigning Hart trophy winner. Getting rid of Franzen, Hudler and a couple of prospects and picks would be well worth they return. Especially if you can keep Perry around long term...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm trying to avoid this thread as reading it makes me feel like i'm going to throw...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I see your point, but Perry just seems to be a flash in the pan to me. Wasn't it Cheechoo who scored 50, too? And I'm not saying Franzen is light years better than Perry, but Franzen has rarely had a healthy season. Perry has had three good seasons. Since Franzen turned into the guy we all know in 2008, he had a 59 point season, and then after that the only close to full season he had was 2010, when the team was decimated with injuries and everybody struggled. Now that he's having a healthy season he's almost a point per game player, he should easily top is 55ish point plateau. I'm just saying that when everything is taken into consideration, it's not as clear cut as some here say it is.

Franzen has really only had a couple good regular seasons and three great playoffs, and is injury prone. Perry has put up 54, 72, 76 and 98 point seasons. He basically had the Ducks strapped to his back the second half of last year. I'd be surprised if he were a flash in the pan.

Don't get me wrong, I definitely agree it's certainly not a no-brainer. It would be a very bold trade. But it's a pretty interesting idea.

Edited by haroldsnepsts

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Franzen, Hudler, Kindl, Andresson, Ferraro, McCollum, Nestrasil, ANY of our D prospects. You just cannot pass on Perry or Getzlaf. I would acquire them both if I could. Ya, now I am dreaming in EA Sports land, but those two on Detroit would make us almost instant favorites, and face it, with the improvements Chicago and San Jose has done this year, Detroit needs to step it up and this would be a great move.

We have the Cap space for both, they are signed through next season. The Wings are over their head deep in great prospects and could easily afford to give up a few of them. McCollum is NOT going to be backup to Howard, he is going to want to be a starter in the NHL and will probably leave as a Free Agent before Howard is ready to give up the #1 spot, so you could easily trade McCollum especially with how good Mrazek is playing. Next season you will be shopping or a #1 defenseman, not another #7 so Kindl and the rest of the prospects are fair game. You could go down the list of top 25 prospects in our organization and chose three or four that you could really live without, so if losing Franzen & Hudler and prospects in exchange for Getzlaf and Perry, I am doing it. You have to ask yourself, if this trade were in the works, which Detroit team has a better chance to compete with Chicago/San Jose and actually win the Cup this year or next, the one with Franzen/Hudler on it, or the one with Getzlaf/Perry? Holland made a mistake in 2009 by letting Hudler handcuff him by coming back and re-signing Franzen. He lost Hossa who said he wanted to stay and would take considerably less to do so. Here is Holland chance to make ammends on that mistake, get rid of Franzen & Hudler and make his team much better and tougher to play against in the form of Getzlaf and Perry. That is a blockbuster trade that will workout for both teams. PLUS it allows Holland to just focus on replacing Lidstrom next year instead of trying to find that power forward and sniper along with a #1 defender.

I know it is hard to say goodbye to homegrown talent. Guys who have grown up in our system, but in the end, it's all about the crest on the front of the sweater. I hope Holland doesn't make the same mistakes he made in 2009 by passing on better players to keep Franzen & Hudler...

EDIT: Also, ask yourself this, who you rather have these two or would you rather see Chicago, San Jose, Vancouver or worse yet Pitt or Toronto or Boston get one or both of them? If that happens then you not only lose out on acquiring two great players, but you also take two steps back from being on par with the elite teams in the NHL.

Edited by LeftWinger
haroldsnepsts and Nev like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's too bad a show like 24/7 isn't following a team like the Ducks.

I'd love to see what a nightmare such a lockerroom must be right now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So if Anaheim says they'll give you Perry (or Getzlaf) in exchange for Franzen, you're not buying?

Not a chance would I do so for Getzlaf. What don't you understand about us not needing another playmaking center? Getzlaf is not a goal-scorer. We'd be giving up our best pure goal-scorer for yet another playmaker. How would this be of use to us?

Getzlaf puts up a lot of assists because he plays with Ryan and Perry, two pure goal-scorers. To whom would he pass on the Wings?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0