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redwingfan19

Cherry rips Holland

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No kidding haha. I have a feeling Kipwinger wasnt watching hockey back in the 90s to see a prime Maltby. He was a top notch agitator and definitely a big hitter.

Notice how he found 0 clips f Miller though?

Miller and Eaves are really good guys and i like them and want them to succeed. But they are vanilla. I don't think they really strike any sort of angst, anxiousness, or irritation into their opponents on game day morning like the Grind Line did.

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Babcock talks toughness

Babcock was asked if he takes pride in winning with a team that annually ranks at the bottom of the NHL in fighting majors (a league-low six this season).

"I wish we were the biggest, toughest, ugliest team in organized hockey," Babcock said, half-jokingly. "That’s not how we’re built, so you coach what you got."

Babcock would prefer to have an enforcer to "keep the flies off."

The team has had Brad May and Aaron Downey in recent years. But general manager Ken Holland doesn’t like to exhaust a roster spot with a tough guy who can’t play.

"I take pride in the fact we’re real disciplined, but I don’t mind (fighting) majors," Babcock said. "I think fans like majors, too. I never seen anyone leave the building when there’s a scrap.

"We’re just built a different way and you got to win in your own way. Team toughness for us is how hard we are on the puck and how hard we pursue it and how we keep coming. It has nothing to do with fighting.

"We like to think our power play looks after business for us and we play the game between the whistles."

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2012/01/red_wings_henrik_zetterberg_st.html

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According to Khan's comments on that particular tweet, Babs was joking.

Kind of like, "Yeah I know. I only got Nick Lidstrom, Pavel Datsyuk... But oh well, that's what I got to work with."

Babs comment may have been said in jest - however me thinks there's some underlying seriousness in his comment as well - he just doesn't want to come across as bashing Holland who's doing what he can to ice the best team possible.

My only thought on this is - what did Holland/Nill/amateur scouts see in Emmerton 41st, Matthias 47th, and Axelsson 62nd over Lucic 50th, and Marchand 71st in the 2006 draft?

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Babs comment may have been said in jest - however me thinks there's some underlying seriousness in his comment as well - he just doesn't want to come across as bashing Holland who's doing what he can to ice the best team possible.

My only thought on this is - what did Holland/Nill/amateur scouts see in Emmerton 41st, Matthias 47th, and Axelsson 62nd over Lucic 50th, and Marchand 71st in the 2006 draft?

Probably skill potential.

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Probably skill potential.

You're probably right...What gets me is that there's so many Red Wing draft picks with this so called "potential" that few if any are regulars in Detroit.

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My only thought on this is - what did Holland/Nill/amateur scouts see in Emmerton 41st, Matthias 47th, and Axelsson 62nd over Lucic 50th, and Marchand 71st in the 2006 draft?

As already noted, more potential as that is all you have to go on in the draft. It is a crapshoot for the most part and you can go on and on all day, week, month coming up with examples of why was so and so chosen over so and so. I'll give you another, why did the Wings pick Jody Gage and Boris Fistric instead of Mark Messier?

Looking at the players you pointed out though, using a purely stats based analysis (much more goes into the draft obviously), you'll get the following (from year they were drafted). I left out Axelsson as he was playing in Europe, harder to compare from pure stats perspective vs. the other guys that all played in the CHL.

Emmerton - 6'0", 190 lbs, 66 games, 90 pts

Matthias - 6'4", 216lbs, 67 games, 34 pts

Lucic - 6'4", 220lbs, 62 games, 19 pts

Marchand - 5'9", 190lbs, 68 games, 66 pts

Looking at that and knowing the draft is a crapshoot, it should make a lot of sense as to why Emmerton and Matthias were drafted ahead of Lucic and Marchand. Emmerton clearly looked to have the most offensive upside and he had good size. Matthias and Lucic were both had great size, but Matthias appeared to have better offensive upside (they were both drafted very close together. While Marchand appeared to be better offsensively than those to, he was very small. Guys like him often don't even get drafted. If you are that size, you have to be great offensively to get a sniff and it's not like he was lights out in that regard, he was just about 1 ppg.

Frozen-Man likes this

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I would love to add a guy like Matt Martin to this teams bottom six

Hes a young guy who is going to be a third liner in this league, one of the most physical players in the game and a solid fighter. He would be the perfect type for the wings to offer up a pick or something for.

It also hurts seeing Ferraro drafted over a guy like Kyle Clifford who would also be a perfect fit for what the wings need.

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Hes a young guy who is going to be a third liner in this league, one of the most physical players in the game and a solid fighter. He would be the perfect type for the wings to offer up a pick or something for.

It also hurts seeing Ferraro drafted over a guy like Kyle Clifford who would also be a perfect fit for what the wings need.

Yeah Martin has 10 points in 40 games this season, compared to 14 in 68 last year, so he's no slouch. Clifford's at about the same offensive pace he was last season for ~15 points.

Edited by Bring Back The Bruise Bros

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Yeah Martin has 10 points in 40 games this season, compared to 14 in 68 last year, so he's no slouch. Clifford's at about the same offensive pace he was last season for ~15 points.

He was the captain of the sting when I had season tickets and is from near my hometown so I kinda like him more than most would but the kid hits everything that moves, its too bad the wings couldnt offer Miller to the Isles for Martin straight up and just throw him on our fourth line to watch him and Abby raise hell

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He was the captain of the sting when I had season tickets and is from near my hometown so I kinda like him more than most would but the kid hits everything that moves, its too bad the wings couldnt offer Miller to the Isles for Martin straight up and just throw him on our fourth line to watch him and Abby raise hell

Well the Isles will be sellers at the deadline, no doubt, not sure who they are willing to get rid of. Tavares, Moulson, Grabner, and Streit may be the only untouchables, right now. On defense, I like Hamonic from the Isles as well.

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Columbus is a mess right now and will be in fire sale mode. Boll would be a great addition and I would trade anyone from the bottom 6 not named Helm and Abby for him.

What is stopping Kenny from doing this again???

Edited by redwingfan19

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Columbus is a mess right now and will be in fire sale mode. Boll would be a great addition and I would trade anyone from the bottom 6 not named Helm and Abby for him.

What is stopping Kenny from doing this again???

His "scoring potential".

esteef

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Columbus is a mess right now and will be in fire sale mode. Boll would be a great addition and I would trade anyone from the bottom 6 not named Helm and Abby for him.

What is stopping Kenny from doing this again???

Columbus might not like what Detroit offers or will want too much.

Tada.

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Columbus might not like what Detroit offers or will want too much.

Tada.

Seriously, I doubt Columbus would be asking to much for Boll, one of Eaves, Emmerton, Miller, take your pick. If not then move on.

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Columbus is a mess right now and will be in fire sale mode. Boll would be a great addition and I would trade anyone from the bottom 6 not named Helm and Abby for him.

What is stopping Kenny from doing this again???

Boll is perfect for the Wings. Last night he was involved in two fights and the others player received an instigator both times. Boll can give the Wings power plays and fights.

redwingfan19 likes this

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As already noted, more potential as that is all you have to go on in the draft. It is a crapshoot for the most part and you can go on and on all day, week, month coming up with examples of why was so and so chosen over so and so. I'll give you another, why did the Wings pick Jody Gage and Boris Fistric instead of Mark Messier?

Looking at the players you pointed out though, using a purely stats based analysis (much more goes into the draft obviously), you'll get the following (from year they were drafted). I left out Axelsson as he was playing in Europe, harder to compare from pure stats perspective vs. the other guys that all played in the CHL.

Emmerton - 6'0", 190 lbs, 66 games, 90 pts

Matthias - 6'4", 216lbs, 67 games, 34 pts

Lucic - 6'4", 220lbs, 62 games, 19 pts

Marchand - 5'9", 190lbs, 68 games, 66 pts

Looking at that and knowing the draft is a crapshoot, it should make a lot of sense as to why Emmerton and Matthias were drafted ahead of Lucic and Marchand. Emmerton clearly looked to have the most offensive upside and he had good size. Matthias and Lucic were both had great size, but Matthias appeared to have better offensive upside (they were both drafted very close together. While Marchand appeared to be better offsensively than those to, he was very small. Guys like him often don't even get drafted. If you are that size, you have to be great offensively to get a sniff and it's not like he was lights out in that regard, he was just about 1 ppg.

You've left out the most important stats - pim, and fighting majors :lol:

On a serious note - I understand where it's a crapshoot when ya consider that these are 18 yr olds, and in many cases these kids are drafted based on their point performance, but there's gotta be something else out there that seperates themselves from one another be it their physical play, or locker room attitude?

Seems like the Wings have a plethora of these guys.

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Literally the worst stat the NHL keeps track of lol.

Last year Chad Larose 5'9 and not tough was ahead of Brad Stuart and near the top of the league in hits, same with Darrol Powe.

Kronwall doesnt consistently throw little tiny hits ( what Miller and Eaves do) but he'll unload with a huge one that can change a game or a series. The hit stat is good for comparing guys on the same team but the actual numbers are terrible.

I know, its rare to see a coach come right out and say it like that. That coupled with Howards comments would really have me lose a bit of faith in Holland if he didnt address it a little bit anyways.

I've already shown you video evidence of the types of hits Eaves throws (obviously not every hit is big, but nobody can boast that), however it's inaccurate to say that he never throws big hits. Secondly, isn't throwing a whole bunch of little hits, but doing it all the time, sort of a cornerstone of the "grinding" concept we're all so fond of?

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Would be willing to trade any or two of eaves, miller, emmerton for boll clifford or martin. Their size would make more a difference come playoff time.

redwingfan19 likes this

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I've already shown you video evidence of the types of hits Eaves throws (obviously not every hit is big, but nobody can boast that), however it's inaccurate to say that he never throws big hits. Secondly, isn't throwing a whole bunch of little hits, but doing it all the time, sort of a cornerstone of the "grinding" concept we're all so fond of?

I dont particularly disagree with you about Eaves throwing hits though, but I find many of hits have little if any effect. IMO he doesnt have the size or attidtude to throw hits that would wear a team down like a Konopka, Clowe, Martin, or even an attitude like clutterbuck. These guys hit to wear the other team down and hit to cause pain.

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I dont particularly disagree with you about Eaves throwing hits though, but I find many of hits have little if any effect. IMO he doesnt have the size or attidtude to throw hits that would wear a team down like a Konopka, Clowe, Martin, or even an attitude like clutterbuck. These guys hit to wear the other team down and hit to cause pain.

I agree, but you're talking about some of the biggest and hardest hitters in the league...I'm not comparing Eaves to Clutterbuck and Clowe, I'm comparing him to Malty, who was an effective fourth line grinder without being the biggest or baddest dude in the league. My whole argument was that our bottom six is no less physical than it was in our hey day. Yes, Clowe and Clutterbuck are big, tough dudes...and yes, San Jose and Minnesota are both more physical teams than Detroit, but it doesn't seem to have brought them any more success than we've had...in fact, less so. This whole debate began with the assertion that Detroit is too soft to be successful in the playoffs, and that when they've had success in the playoffs it was because we were tougher, or grittier, or something...which I think is a baseless argument made by people who just happen to prefer a more physical game, regardless of its efficiency.

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Dallas Drake and part timer D-Mac were the enforcers on our 2008 squad? Who was in 2009 then? I know we lost, but I'm trying to figure out who the 'tough guy' was that season. Brad May?

Edited by PROBIE4PREZ

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I love how Tim Thomas gets ALL the credit for the Bruins winning the Cup in these threads. Probably because that's a hell of a lot easier than acknowledging the fact that Boston was chock full of fighting players that could beat up our entire team and they won the Cup. People around here talk like if we had just ONE of those guys we'd be lucky to make the playoffs. Especially with our s***ty roster full of guys like Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Lidstrom...

I bet if Boston lost it would've been blamed on "not enough skill" in the lineup.

esteef

edited fer dum spellin

Edited by esteef

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I didnt see or hear what Cherry said, but the Wings need to play with more grit. When the Wings have the puck near the boards, they get smashed. When the other team has the puck near the boards, the Wings merely try to poke the puck with the stick. Before you all jump in with "what about Kronwall's hit on so and so" let me state that the Wings are capable of playing with more grit, they just dont do it consistently.I prefer the finess that the Wings bring to the game, but a talented physical team will beat an equally talented finess team four games out of seven. Just my opinion, fwiw. Joe S

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