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redwingfan19

Cherry rips Holland

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Why is it that every time I hear someone going gaga over all this hard hitting, "putting guys into the fourth row" business, I always imagining them slamming a beer, crushing it on their foreheads, and then high-fiving their bros. over how awesome it is? Then I get sucked back into reality and thank god that I'm a fan of a team who is among the least penalized in the league every year and is therefore constantly at an advantage because they don't skate around taking runs at guys, retaliating, getting into fights, or instigating.

touche, but all I've ever said (from the beginning) is that our bottom six is fine, and is plenty physical and/or gritty enough. Making it more so would be pointless, potentially disadvantageous, and costly. We don't get beat because our bottom six is too soft, we get beat because our top six is not as deep as the top six of other elite hockey teams.

Honsstly I think we could see an improvement on both the top 6 group, and bottom 6 group of forwards.

Our top 6 could use a more consistent goal scorer, and the bottom 6 could use a "few" more ornery types that during the course of a 7 game series they wear down the opposing dmen, and wreak havoc around the net.

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Guest Heaten   
Guest Heaten

Video up

Who is that guy? He's an idiot. Is he seriously on TV or does he just do an amateur YOUTUBE channel that talks BS hockey? Awful

Edited by Heaten

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Well for starters, Maltby and Draper would get a pass from me for not being physical because they were by far the bes tPKers in the league, and Draper probably the best shut down forward. He actually made an Olympic team for that reason.

But Draper and especially Maltby were MUCH more physical than Miller or Eaves and its not close really. Maltby in his prime was a wrecking ball out there. The fact that you even compared Eaves and Miller to these 2 shows how out of touch with hockey you really are.

When has Miller came close to this

Or even this when Maltby was completely washed up

So you found two youtube clips and now Maltby is a "wrecking ball"? And I'm out of touch? Pretty sure Maltby was an annoying, in your face, pestering type defensive forward...that...or a "total wrecking ball" dude! Look, I'm as big of a homer as anybody here, but to suggest that Maltby and Drapes were much (or any) more physical than Miller and Eaves is kind of a stretch. I find it humorous that in the quest to justify the myth that finesse teams can't cups, Maltby is turned into a "wrecking ball", Miller and Eaves become soft little ******* who don't finish checks, block shots, or kill penalties worth a damn, and guys like Downey, May, and Drake become contributing He-men. But just for fun's sake...

here's Eaves destroying a guy...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnuPWBiAyqM

here's Eaves destroying a guy and then fighting 15 seconds later...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wW1QRqBLLc

here's Eaves blocking a shot and crawling off the ice to avoid a stoppage in play...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQGT1fVgd_I

here's Eaves destroying another guy...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otKFZjSHCg8

here's Eaves fighting another guy...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=um7KGKmFf8Q

here's Eaves destroying another guy...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgQ_CcEfYg8

here's Eaves destroying another guy...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otuHLZHATdM

Holy s*** dude, by your rationale Eaves should be considered, at the very least, a "wrecking ball" and at most the greatest physical presence the league has ever know. Should I spend five seconds on youtube finding Miller lighting people up too, or can you inwardly recognize that a) Miller and Eaves are as physical as Maltby and Draper, b) none of the four of them were "wrecking balls" and didn't really need to be to play an effective game?

I guess the big difference is that after the Maltby hits in your videos there was a scrum (no fights) and then the Wings returned to the bench, while after the Eaves hits in my videos there were scrums (no fights) and the Wings returned to the bench. Man is this year's team soft.

Edited by kipwinger

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Honsstly I think we could see an improvement on both the top 6 group, and bottom 6 group of forwards.

Our top 6 could use a more consistent goal scorer, and the bottom 6 could use a "few" more ornery types that during the course of a 7 game series they wear down the opposing dmen, and wreak havoc around the net.

Can you give me a couple of names, just so I know what type of "ornery" player you're looking for here? Jordin Tootoo? Dan Carcillo?

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Get rid of the instigator and I bet you'd see more guys on the current roster drop the mitts. The Wings are just coached not to take unnecessary penalties and I think people calling for Holland to get a "tough guy" for the 4th line tend to forget this at times. The only real need I see for this team is a consistent goal-scoring winger for the top six, but I'd rather Holland wait until the offseason than give up too much to get one extra piece.

Oh, and Don Cherry still thinks it's the 70s for some reason. He has no real grip on hockey in the modern era.

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Get rid of the instigator and I bet you'd see more guys on the current roster drop the mitts. The Wings are just coached not to take unnecessary penalties and I think people calling for Holland to get a "tough guy" for the 4th line tend to forget this at times. The only real need I see for this team is a consistent goal-scoring winger for the top six, but I'd rather Holland wait until the offseason than give up too much to get one extra piece.

Oh, and Don Cherry still thinks it's the 70s for some reason. He has no real grip on hockey in the modern era.

Agreed on all points.

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Get rid of the instigator and I bet you'd see more guys on the current roster drop the mitts. The Wings are just coached not to take unnecessary penalties and I think people calling for Holland to get a "tough guy" for the 4th line tend to forget this at times. The only real need I see for this team is a consistent goal-scoring winger for the top six, but I'd rather Holland wait until the offseason than give up too much to get one extra piece.

Oh, and Don Cherry still thinks it's the 70s for some reason. He has no real grip on hockey in the modern era.

I respectfully disagree.

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Get rid of the instigator and I bet you'd see more guys on the current roster drop the mitts. The Wings are just coached not to take unnecessary penalties and I think people calling for Holland to get a "tough guy" for the 4th line tend to forget this at times. The only real need I see for this team is a consistent goal-scoring winger for the top six, but I'd rather Holland wait until the offseason than give up too much to get one extra piece.

Oh, and Don Cherry still thinks it's the 70s for some reason. He has no real grip on hockey in the modern era.

This, that, and what he said.

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So you found two youtube clips and now Maltby is a "wrecking ball"? And I'm out of touch? Pretty sure Maltby was an annoying, in your face, pestering type defensive forward...that...or a "total wrecking ball" dude! Look, I'm as big of a homer as anybody here, but to suggest that Maltby and Drapes were much (or any) more physical than Miller and Eaves is kind of a stretch. I find it humorous that in the quest to justify the myth that finesse teams can't cups, Maltby is turned into a "wrecking ball", Miller and Eaves become soft little ******* who don't finish checks, block shots, or kill penalties worth a damn, and guys like Downey, May, and Drake become contributing He-men. But just for fun's sake...

here's Eaves destroying a guy...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnuPWBiAyqM

here's Eaves destroying a guy and then fighting 15 seconds later...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wW1QRqBLLc

here's Eaves blocking a shot and crawling off the ice to avoid a stoppage in play...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQGT1fVgd_I

here's Eaves destroying another guy...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otKFZjSHCg8

here's Eaves fighting another guy...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=um7KGKmFf8Q

here's Eaves destroying another guy...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgQ_CcEfYg8

here's Eaves destroying another guy...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otuHLZHATdM

Holy s*** dude, by your rationale Eaves should be considered, at the very least, a "wrecking ball" and at most the greatest physical presence the league has ever know. Should I spend five seconds on youtube finding Miller lighting people up too, or can you inwardly recognize that a) Miller and Eaves are as physical as Maltby and Draper, b) none of the four of them were "wrecking balls" and didn't really need to be to play an effective game?

I guess the big difference is that after the Maltby hits in your videos there was a scrum (no fights) and then the Wings returned to the bench, while after the Eaves hits in my videos there were scrums (no fights) and the Wings returned to the bench. Man is this year's team soft.

Do you not realise the difference in the amount of video clips online from the last few years (Eaves) and over a decade ago (prime Maltby)?

Especially with your posting attitude. Amount of clips on Youtube, given the different era's, is not a viable argument.

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Do you not realise the difference in the amount of video clips online from the last few years (Eaves) and over a decade ago (prime Maltby)?

Especially with your posting attitude. Amount of clips on Youtube, given the different era's, is not a viable argument.

No kidding haha. I have a feeling Kipwinger wasnt watching hockey back in the 90s to see a prime Maltby. He was a top notch agitator and definitely a big hitter.

Notice how he found 0 clips f Miller though?

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Do you not realise the difference in the amount of video clips online from the last few years (Eaves) and over a decade ago (prime Maltby)?

Especially with your posting attitude. Amount of clips on Youtube, given the different era's, is not a viable argument.

Ok, let me make this painfully obvious to you...my original comments, oh so long ago, were that our bottom six was already gritty and tough enough. Additionally, I pointed out that even back in the hey day of the late 90's and early 2000's, there were guys on the bottom six who aren't known for being tough guys...e.g. Draper, Maltby. They were definitely gritty...but so are Eaves and Miller and many of the guys on our team now. You claimed that Maltby was a "wrecking ball" back then, scoffed at the idea that our guys now have any kind of toughness, and used two pathetic videos to prove your point. In response, I showed that if hitting guys hard, blocking shots, and fighting videos are what you consider tough...then Eaves (at least) still fits the bill. And I was only ever saying that he was (at least) as tough a Maltby. There were other guys then, and now, tougher than both of them. So now we're at a bit of a quandry because I've shown you that if Maltby is a big tough guy for hitting hard, then Eaves is too...for the same reason...with video evidence. We both agreed that neither Draper nor Miller play a really hard nosed physical game on ice, but considering they both killed penalties, block shots, etc. I think in the toughness category...it's sort of a wash. Now if you want to suggest that a team with the remaining bottom six of Lapointe, McCarty, Deveroux, or Kocur. from the hey day is a better bottom six, I'd disagree, but understand that it's your preference. But if you want to say that a bottom six with those guys, plus draper and maltby, is far and away more physical...and therefore more likely to win championships then you're absurd.

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No kidding haha. I have a feeling Kipwinger wasnt watching hockey back in the 90s to see a prime Maltby. He was a top notch agitator and definitely a big hitter.

Notice how he found 0 clips f Miller though?

How nice, you're playing second banana to a guy who claims Kirk Maltby is a "wrecking ball". I said Eaves and Miller where as tough as Draper and Maltby...he disagreed and said Drapes and Maltby were tougher and provided two videos of Maltby hitting hard to prove it. I responded by showing that Eaves hits, as well as fights (something Maltby rarely did), just as much as Maltby ever did. Obviously Miller hits and fights less than Eaves or Maltby, guess who else does...DRAPER...which was my original point in the first place. I'll say it again 'DRAPER AND MALTBY ARE NOT MORE PHYSICAL THAN EAVES AND MILLER!" If I can show, with video, that Eaves hits big and fights as much as Maltby, and neither Draper or Miller do either of those things...then the point is made. So that's how the debate went with the other guy, that's what we were talking about...where did you come in again? That's right, you came in right at the end...without reading much of the thread, obviously...in order to make some sort of snarky comment about how I must not have watched as much hockey as you clearly must have because if I had I'd have noticed that Maltby was a "big hitter", which is too stupid to be anything but laughable. Konstantinov was a big hitter, Kronwall is a big hitter, Stuart is a big hitter, Scott Stevens is a big hitter...Maltby...um...a big...oh that's right, Maltby was a fourth line grinder who finished his checks. It's amazing that in an attempt to make a wrong headed point, you and the other guy have made Maltby into a "wrecking ball" and a "big hitter". Something nobody...ever...aside from the two of you clowns, has ever considered him-before, during, or since the beginning of his career.

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Saw this gem on twitter today from Khan:

Babcock: “I wish we were the biggest, toughest, ugliest team in organized hockey. That's not how we're built, so you coach what you got.''

:clap: :clap: :clap:

Way to go, Babs.

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I'll say it again 'DRAPER AND MALTBY ARE NOT MORE PHYSICAL THAN EAVES AND MILLER!"

I was the one that said it not UK first of all, second of all you can say it all you want, PUT IT IN BIG HUGE CAP LOCKS, or even put it into a really cool font but I can guarantee there will be noone on this site, even the people who consider Eaves and Miller as gritty guys who would say they were as physical and wear teams down as much as Maltby and Draper.

Eaves may be as physical as Draper, but hes not even close when it comes to bottom 6 ability to play hockey. Draper is the textbook definition of a 4th line center, the best faceoff man in the league, the best PKer, one of the fastest skaters and had a bit of offense to his game. Eaves isnt even close to Draper in other areas whatsoever and Draper was probably just as physical as him.

Maltby on the other hand, if you think either of Eaves or Miller are as physical as he was than you might wanna get your head checked

Saw this gem on twitter today from Khan:

Babcock: “I wish we were the biggest, toughest, ugliest team in organized hockey. That's not how we're built, so you coach what you got.''

Hey Kipwinger, remember when you were talking about how Babcock doesnt like toughness?

This sure sounds to me like hes almost calling for Holland to get him some toughness. First Jimmy, now Babcock.. I wonder if Kenny will listen to these guys at the deadline.

Tonights game is a great example of when having a tough player like a Tim Jackman could have sparked this team. He would've went out for a shift, hit everything that moved and probably started a fight since he knows his role on a team. When there is no energy out there and the skill isnt working is when its nice to have these guys.

Its funy, the wings came out flat as a board like today against Vancouver earlier this season, Abby whoops Lappy and the wings come to life. Say it all you want but it has a place in hockey to have toughness in your bottom 6, I cant believe some people are so brainwashed to think otherwise

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This quote may become my signature. To be honest, I'm a little hard right now.

SLow er down there bruise bros lol

but seriously, with Howard calling out the team for getting ran and now Babcock with this gem what do you think the chances are that Kenny listens?

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I was the one that said it not UK first of all, second of all you can say it all you want, PUT IT IN BIG HUGE CAP LOCKS, or even put it into a really cool font but I can guarantee there will be noone on this site, even the people who consider Eaves and Miller as gritty guys who would say they were as physical and wear teams down as much as Maltby and Draper.

Eaves may be as physical as Draper, but hes not even close when it comes to bottom 6 ability to play hockey. Draper is the textbook definition of a 4th line center, the best faceoff man in the league, the best PKer, one of the fastest skaters and had a bit of offense to his game. Eaves isnt even close to Draper in other areas whatsoever and Draper was probably just as physical as him.

Maltby on the other hand, if you think either of Eaves or Miller are as physical as he was than you might wanna get your head checked

Hey Kipwinger, remember when you were talking about how Babcock doesnt like toughness?

This sure sounds to me like hes almost calling for Holland to get him some toughness. First Jimmy, now Babcock.. I wonder if Kenny will listen to these guys at the deadline.

Tonights game is a great example of when having a tough player like a Tim Jackman could have sparked this team. He would've went out for a shift, hit everything that moved and probably started a fight since he knows his role on a team. When there is no energy out there and the skill isnt working is when its nice to have these guys.

Its funy, the wings came out flat as a board like today against Vancouver earlier this season, Abby whoops Lappy and the wings come to life. Say it all you want but it has a place in hockey to have toughness in your bottom 6, I cant believe some people are so brainwashed to think otherwise

Find a stat board, look at Maltby's hits per season and compare it to Eaves'.

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SLow er down there bruise bros lol

but seriously, with Howard calling out the team for getting ran and now Babcock with this gem what do you think the chances are that Kenny listens?

Lol I keed, of course.

Well, with Howard coming out and basically saying "Clear the damn crease", we found Commodore playing more. I doubt we'll get an immediate reaponse from Ken, but possibly at the deadline or in the offseason. I mean, you just don't see quotes like that often. Typically, coaches are pretty hush about the personnel that is brought in, so I take that as a "Ken, give me something to work with". That should speak pretty loud knowing that coaches typically don't speak out like that.

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Saw this gem on twitter today from Khan:

Babcock: "I wish we were the biggest, toughest, ugliest team in organized hockey. That's not how we're built, so you coach what you got.''

I'm sure his current players loved hearing that, haha.

Actually, here's a little context:

Winghead19 Carrie Hampton @ @AnsarKhanMLive Is Babs complaining? Seriously? 9 hours ago

AnsarKhanMLive Ansar Khan @ @Winghead19 No. He was being somewhat facetious in response to a question about Wings having only five fighting majors. 9 hours ago

Edited by Red Wings Addict

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Lol I keed, of course.

Well, with Howard coming out and basically saying "Clear the damn crease", we found Commodore playing more. I doubt we'll get an immediate reaponse from Ken, but possibly at the deadline or in the offseason. I mean, you just don't see quotes like that often. Typically, coaches are pretty hush about the personnel that is brought in, so I take that as a "Ken, give me something to work with". That should speak pretty loud knowing that coaches typically don't speak out like that.

i agree i am a huge wings fan 4 the past 18 years and during that time i seen ken holland turn from a genius gm who builds a cup winning team like in 2002 and in 2008 to becoming the laziest and most dumb stubborn gm that is completely depleting the team he seems scared to make bold trades and the deadline is always hesistant to trade any of our picks if it means we can make an upgrade to the team to make a serious run for the cup the majority of our top player are getting old and slow yet he is blind to the fact we need to get younger faster and more grittier skilled players to keep up with todays nhl

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Find a stat board, look at Maltby's hits per season and compare it to Eaves'.

Literally the worst stat the NHL keeps track of lol.

Last year Chad Larose 5'9 and not tough was ahead of Brad Stuart and near the top of the league in hits, same with Darrol Powe.

Kronwall doesnt consistently throw little tiny hits ( what Miller and Eaves do) but he'll unload with a huge one that can change a game or a series. The hit stat is good for comparing guys on the same team but the actual numbers are terrible.

Lol I keed, of course.

Well, with Howard coming out and basically saying "Clear the damn crease", we found Commodore playing more. I doubt we'll get an immediate reaponse from Ken, but possibly at the deadline or in the offseason. I mean, you just don't see quotes like that often. Typically, coaches are pretty hush about the personnel that is brought in, so I take that as a "Ken, give me something to work with". That should speak pretty loud knowing that coaches typically don't speak out like that.

I know, its rare to see a coach come right out and say it like that. That coupled with Howards comments would really have me lose a bit of faith in Holland if he didnt address it a little bit anyways.

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I know, its rare to see a coach come right out and say it like that. That coupled with Howards comments would really have me lose a bit of faith in Holland if he didnt address it a little bit anyways.

According to Khan's comments on that particular tweet, Babs was joking.

Kind of like, "Yeah I know. I only got Nick Lidstrom, Pavel Datsyuk... But oh well, that's what I got to work with."

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