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Excellent 'Parise and Suter to Detroit' article


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#21 blueadams

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 01:28 PM

But they could potentially get some tough, big grinders who are sound defensively and may score a few goals.


That is exactly what I meant by power forward.

Neither Bert or Cleary has a NTC. Bert's salary is actually a bargain given his point totals. He'd be easy to move. Cleary'd be the tough one. Bad year. Not even close to living up to his 2.8 mil contract. Coming off surgery. Still though...not far removed from some impressive seasons. Still relatively young. Still has the "he'll be great again when he's healed" argument on his side. Lot of experience on a good team. Good leader. I could see a crappy young team lacking in locker-room guys and attendance numbers being willing to take on his contract for one season.

#22 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 01:38 PM

That is exactly what I meant by power forward.

Neither Bert or Cleary has a NTC. Bert's salary is actually a bargain given his point totals. He'd be easy to move. Cleary'd be the tough one. Bad year. Not even close to living up to his 2.8 mil contract. Coming off surgery. Still though...not far removed from some impressive seasons. Still relatively young. Still has the "he'll be great again when he's healed" argument on his side. Lot of experience on a good team. Good leader. I could see a crappy young team lacking in locker-room guys and attendance numbers being willing to take on his contract for one season.

I typically think of a power forward as a top two line guy, someone like Lucic. But I figured that's what you meant.

Bert doesn't have a NTC, but the Wings just re-signed him in February. Not saying it couldn't happen but Holland usually doesn't get rid of a player that soon after offering him another contract.

#23 blueadams

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 01:45 PM

I typically think of a power forward as a top two line guy, someone like Lucic. But I figured that's what you meant.

Bert doesn't have a NTC, but the Wings just re-signed him in February. Not saying it couldn't happen but Holland usually doesn't get rid of a player that soon after offering him another contract.


there's zero percent of it actually happening. doesn't mean it's not what should happen.

#24 DangleDangleBeach

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 02:50 PM

maybe the oakland athletics will take cleary off our hands?

#25 rrasco

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 03:09 PM

Isn't it possible they sign them to front loaded life time contracts


It is possible, since they would more than likely be signed before the next CBA dismantles the ability for GMs to structure contracts in that manner.

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#26 centcougar07

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 03:15 PM

20 mil what? A year?

And 7 million isn't such a discount. They are perhaps leaving a few million off the table to play together and for a team with a history of winning and a group of guys who know what it takes to win. You don't get that from many other clubs.


I'm sorry but having a "tradition of winning" isn't worth a velvet painting of a whale and a dolphin getting it on when the season starts. Everyone is 0-0. It tradition was a factor as you are trying to present, then every top FA would want to sign with Montreal or Toronto. It's a nice thought but I don't see how history would convince a FA to sign or not sign in the present. It's about the here and now and then the future, IMO.

http://www.detroitne...0354/1128/rss16

It sounds like Parise and Suter really are a package deal. It sounds like Detroit really is one of the very few teams that interests them (has the cap space, a winning tradition, and both - more or less - grew up in Ann Arbor). It sounds like this might be something that actually ends up happening...and which could have been in the works for some time?





Because me for being an addict, LINES!

CAPGEEK.COM CAP CALCULATOR ROSTER
My Custom Lineup
FORWARDS
Zach Parise ($7.000m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Johan Franzen ($3.955m)
Gustav Nyquist ($0.875m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m)
Justin Abdelkader ($1.300m) / Darren Helm ($1.400m) / Power Forward? ($2.000m)
Power Forward? ($2.000m) / Cory Emmerton ($0.533m) / Power Forward? ($2.000m)
DEFENSEMEN
Nicklas Lidstrom ($5.000m) / Ryan Suter ($7.000m)
Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Ian White ($2.875m)
Brendan Smith ($0.875m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m)
GOALTENDERS
Jimmy Howard ($2.250m)
Backup Goalie? ($1.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $63,846,212; BONUSES: $37,500
CAP SPACE (20-man roster): $453,788





Explanation:

If we're able to sign Parise and Suter, the top six is set (Parise replaces Bertuzzi on the first line, Nyquist replaces Hudler on the second line); and - assuming Lidstrom resigns - the defensive pairings are set (Suter replaces Stuart, Smith replaces Quincey). But the bottom six isn't yet in order.

I like Helm as our third line center. He's one of the best defensive centers in the game. Let's resign him (an RFA) to about a 0.5mil raise. I like Emmerton as our fourth line center. He's sort of like a young Helm in many ways. Let's keep him there. And I like Abdelkader as a bottom six winger. He's big, strong, and great defensively (though he could be more physical). Let's resign him (an RFA) to about a 0.5 mil raise. But now we've got some issues.

I DO NOT like Cleary, Bertuzzi, Eaves, Miller or Mursak as bottom-six wingers. I want three new, big, strong, physical, defensively sound power forwards to go along with Abdelkader as our bottom-six wingers. If we move the aforementioned players, we'll have over 6mil to spend on these three power forwards. Should be well more than enough to get us what we want. It'll be harder to move some than others, but I do think that all of the aforementioned players are movable (worst case scenario, send them and their cap-hits through waivers en route to gr).

THAT's how we catch up to the rest of the league.


How did either of them grow up in Ann Arbor?

#27 wingslogo19

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 03:29 PM

Get it done Kenny
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#28 Rick

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 03:29 PM

How did either of them grow up in Ann Arbor?


Its because USA Hockey's National Team Development Program IS IN Ann Arbor. They do an Under 18 team and an Under 17 team. The teams play from september til march. almost half the games are played in Ann Arbor. What that means is that as 16 and 17 year olds they spent a lot of time in Ann Arbor a couple years in a row doing what teenagers do. growing up. ffs.

Edited by Rick, 24 May 2012 - 03:44 PM.


#29 Doc Holliday

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 03:40 PM

I'm sorry but having a "tradition of winning" isn't worth a velvet painting of a whale and a dolphin getting it on when the season starts. Everyone is 0-0. It tradition was a factor as you are trying to present, then every top FA would want to sign with Montreal or Toronto. It's a nice thought but I don't see how history would convince a FA to sign or not sign in the present. It's about the here and now and then the future, IMO.


Neither the Canadiens or Maple Leafs have a history of winning in recent memory. I thought it was incredibly obvious what I was referring to.

And I also never said that tradition meant they would be "flocking" here. I said it would give them an advantage over other teams.

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#30 Detroit # 1 Fan

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 04:03 PM

Nice to dream, would be sick if we landed em both though. Ideally for me:

Trade Ericsson+Miller to Buffalo for a 2nd, with Suter coming in no real need for Big E anymore.

Sign Parise, Suter and Prust.

Parise-Datsyuk-Nyquist
Filppula-Zetterberg-Franzen
Bertuzzi-Helm-Cleary
Prust-Abdelkader-Eaves
Emmerton

Lidstrom-Smith
Suter-Kronwall
White-Quincey
Kindl

Howard
McDonald

f*** with that, NHL.

#NOMOREKINDL


#31 kylee

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 04:03 PM

I never once understood a player growing up in a given area as a compelling reason to play for a sports team. With that said, I'd venture my opinion and say were MUCH more likely to sign suter than parise.

#32 Doc Holliday

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 04:10 PM

Nice to dream, would be sick if we landed em both though. Ideally for me:

Trade Ericsson+Miller to Buffalo for a 2nd, with Suter coming in no real need for Big E anymore.

Sign Parise, Suter and Prust.

Parise-Datsyuk-Nyquist
Filppula-Zetterberg-Franzen
Bertuzzi-Helm-Cleary
Prust-Abdelkader-Eaves
Emmerton

Lidstrom-Smith
Suter-Kronwall
White-Quincey
Kindl

Howard
McDonald

f*** with that, NHL.


You think Smith is ready for the top pairing?

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#33 Detroit # 1 Fan

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 04:21 PM

You think Smith is ready for the top pairing?


No, but I think it'd be better for him to play opposite Nick then Quincey or White.

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#34 centcougar07

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 04:40 PM

Neither the Canadiens or Maple Leafs have a history of winning in recent memory. I thought it was incredibly obvious what I was referring to.

And I also never said that tradition meant they would be "flocking" here. I said it would give them an advantage over other teams.


What do you mean winning? We haven't got out of the second round of the playoffs in 3 years. I mean sure we've won in the regular season but recently, we haven't done much in the playoffs.

How does it give us an advantage?



#35 rick zombo

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 04:48 PM

What do you mean winning? We haven't got out of the second round of the playoffs in 3 years. I mean sure we've won in the regular season but recently, we haven't done much in the playoffs.

How does it give us an advantage?


Why don't you ask Rafalski what he was thinking in July of 2007?
"In Detroit, every day is a good day to win"

#36 VM1138

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 04:59 PM

Perhaps, but there's no way they will both accept such a discount, unless it's for one year only, like Selanne and Kariya once did. But put yourself in their shoes, is Detroit the best place for their one shot at a Cup together? Because at that price (14 mil for both) they can have their pick of ANY NHL team they want. And right now Detroit doesn't look like the team most poised to win the Cup next year.

And to sign them both long-term, the price tag will START at 20 mil.


Cap hit is what we're talking. We could fanagle a contract to get them both to 7 or 7.5 a year easily.

And they'd take that over making 8, 8.5 separately I bet.

I'm sorry but having a "tradition of winning" isn't worth a velvet painting of a whale and a dolphin getting it on when the season starts. Everyone is 0-0. It tradition was a factor as you are trying to present, then every top FA would want to sign with Montreal or Toronto. It's a nice thought but I don't see how history would convince a FA to sign or not sign in the present. It's about the here and now and then the future, IMO.


Really? Unless you're a mercenary who doesn't care if you win or lose, it matters.

For anyone who actually watches the Wings, it's obvious they had some pretty significant fluke seasons (injuries in '10, refs in the playoffs, injuries in '11, epic comeback in playoffs) and are only a few players away from the Cup again.

And I can only speak for myself, but if I had the choice to go play for an Original 6 team over a team like Anaheim, all things considered equal, I go to the Original 6 team.

Fact is, no other teams have been consistently better than the Wings the last 20 or even 5 years. A handful of teams are up there with the Wings (San Jose, Rangers, Boston) but that's about it. So yeah, a history of winning matters.
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#37 sibiriak

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 05:04 PM

That is crap. Neither of them will be offered 10 million a year. They are great players but they aren't at the same level as the Crosbys and Stamkos's of the league.

Here are the comparable (in terms of production) players and their salaries:
Zetterberg: actual salary next year 7.1 mil. cap hit 6.08 due to conrtact length gimmick that the league will not toleraate anymore, as they showed with Kovalchuk's contract.
D.Sedin 6.1 mil./ 6.1
E.Staal 8.5 / 8.25
Kovalchuk 11.0 / 6.67
Iginla 7.0 /7.0 that contract was signed waay back.
Sharp 6.0 / 5.9

Parise is younger than all of them, but Sharp, and to sign him long term would require an increase, at least 20%, over what those guys are making. So if we take a conservative route, average of all the above players, Parise's agent would ask for 10 and won't come down below 8.5.
Given that Parise is THE premiere forward UFA this season, I would expect that he will get closer to the asking price than the minimum one.
The final number will be modified by playing with throwaway years on the contract and such, but with the league shown displeasure with such doings, I expect that the cap number will be close to the real salary.

Now Suter.
His comparables: Weber 7.5/7.5 (1 yr and RFA only would command way more for the long-term UFA contract)
Hamhius 5.0 / 4.5
Letang 3.5 / 3.5 (signed as RFA, so UFA contract would be much higher)
Keith 8.0 / 5.5
Seabrook 7.0 / 5.8

So an average of these 5 +20% is 7.5 and Weber's and Letangs number are too low. So Suter's agent will start with 9.5 and come down to no less than 8.25. Again, Suter is THE best UFA defenseman this year, so he is likely to command closer to 9 mil. than 8. Again, I assume that the real salary does not get too different from the cap hit.

So, assuming a long term contract, Parise will cost 9-10 mil, and Suter 8.5-9. Together they will command 17.5-19 mil. If they decide that Detroit only needs to add the two of them to win the Cup next season, they may agree to a one year package deal at significantly less, but if you were in their shoes, which team would be the most likely to win next year with their addition? I doubt it's Detroit. And any GM in a league will do a lot to add those two. Including trading away major players if the cap limit demands it.

#38 DyingAlive

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 05:18 PM

-_-

Wake me up when its June 25th, all this speculation just puts more hope into something that is far from being decided.
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#39 Doc Holliday

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 06:07 PM

Here are the comparable (in terms of production) players and their salaries:
Zetterberg: actual salary next year 7.1 mil. cap hit 6.08 due to conrtact length gimmick that the league will not toleraate anymore, as they showed with Kovalchuk's contract.
D.Sedin 6.1 mil./ 6.1
E.Staal 8.5 / 8.25
Kovalchuk 11.0 / 6.67
Iginla 7.0 /7.0 that contract was signed waay back.
Sharp 6.0 / 5.9


All with cap hits less than 10 million.

Parise is younger than all of them, but Sharp, and to sign him long term would require an increase, at least 20%, over what those guys are making. So if we take a conservative route, average of all the above players, Parise's agent would ask for 10 and won't come down below 8.5.

Cap hit wise it won't go that high. End of story.

Given that Parise is THE premiere forward UFA this season, I would expect that he will get closer to the asking price than the minimum one.

Depending on how much he wants to win. And he is not the "premiere forward" in the league, he is just the top free agent.

The final number will be modified by playing with throwaway years on the contract and such, but with the league shown displeasure with such doings, I expect that the cap number will be close to the real salary.

Kovalchuk's deal was obvious. Franzen's and Zetterberg's were not.

Now Suter.
His comparables: Weber 7.5/7.5 (1 yr and RFA only would command way more for the long-term UFA contract)
Hamhius 5.0 / 4.5
Letang 3.5 / 3.5 (signed as RFA, so UFA contract would be much higher)
Keith 8.0 / 5.5
Seabrook 7.0 / 5.8

Once again, none with a cap hit over 10 million.

So an average of these 5 +20% is 7.5 and Weber's and Letangs number are too low. So Suter's agent will start with 9.5 and come down to no less than 8.25. Again, Suter is THE best UFA defenseman this year, so he is likely to command closer to 9 mil. than 8. Again, I assume that the real salary does not get too different from the cap hit.

You are just making things up now. His cap hit will not be nearly as high.

So, assuming a long term contract, Parise will cost 9-10 mil, and Suter 8.5-9. Together they will command 17.5-19 mil. If they decide that Detroit only needs to add the two of them to win the Cup next season, they may agree to a one year package deal at significantly less, but if you were in their shoes, which team would be the most likely to win next year with their addition? I doubt it's Detroit. And any GM in a league will do a lot to add those two. Including trading away major players if the cap limit demands it.


Suter will not accept a short-term contract, and a short term contract will likely be more expensive because there is less guaranteed money.

They will receive between 7 and 8 million assuming they both are looking for contending clubs. Detroit will be one of those clubs.

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#40 Hatethedrake!

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Posted 24 May 2012 - 07:03 PM

Kenny signs both Suter and Parise to 10 year contracts worth 75 million.

Year 1: 10 mil
Year 2: 10 mil
Year 3: 10 mil
Year 4: 10 mil
Year 5: 10 mil
Year 6: 8 mil
Year 7: 8 mil
Year 8: 4 mil
Year 9: 3 mil
Year 10: 2 mil
Jordan Tootoo will wreck shop.

We need someone like Parise that can penetrate the box.-blueadams





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