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Guest blueadams

Ken Holland, Post-Scotty Bowman

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A team that's been lacking top 6 winger since Hossa left shouldn't pass on UFA's like E.Cole and Ryder for a pretty reasonable cap hit they've signed last off-season in my opinion

I suppose you predicted Cole and Ryder would have career years last year?

Both players were in their 30s. Ryder had two straight 18g seasons, Cole scored 18, 11(40 games), and 26 his previous 3. Niether was a bonafide top-6 winger. Neither was any better than Cleary was in 2010-11. Had Holland signed either you'd have seent he same bitching we're seeing now for the Sammy signing. And there's no guarantee they would have put up the same numbers here. It's unlikely either would have made any significant difference. Most likely you'd still be here complaining about Kenny signing even more old guys.

Besides, we were 2nd in the league in GF in 10-11, one less goal than Vancouver. We didn't "need" a top-6 winger. We don't really need one now for that matter. We have 4 good top-6 forwards, and 3-5 guys who can potentially fill a top-6 role. If we add more, great. If not, no big deal (assuming we don't trade one of the top four).

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If Holland lands Semin, that will do a lot to reestablish some credibility. Krupp and Lang? Come on, Kenny. Hatcher? Come on.

Wow, do you have any idea how strong each of those players were at the time they were acquired? Injuries cost Hatcher and Krupp their time in DET and Lang eventually deteriorated. But all three of those guys were impact players when they were acquired.

Holland low-balled Schultz, Parise and Suter this off-season. No doubt about it. He screwed up. No excuses.

...Schultz was very, very interested in us. We were, I think, 1 of 2 non western-Canadien teams on his list. He talked to us. And as soon as he talked to us, he was no longer interested. He wanted a top 4 guarantee. We wouldn't give it to him. I'm sure Holland/Babcock told him something along the lines of "you'll have a great chance to compete with six other defensemen" and he said "no thanks". Kronwall, White, Ericsson, Smith and Kindl were the only defensemen on our roster at that point. you're telling me we couldn't guarantee him a spot over Smith, to at least start the season!? Even if we signed Suter, we couldn't guarantee him a spot over Ericsson!? Why the hell not just tell him that he'll get one, give him one early in the season, and let him keep it or lose it. Step one is getting him here and we blew it because we're arrogant morons.

...Parise and Suter were a package deal the entire way. We completely insulted Parise with our offer and he didn't want to come here. Hence, Suter wasn't coming here. Again, arrogant morons.

I'm actually embarrassed for you. That has got to be the single worst post I have ever read - and that includes all of your pointless line threads/posts

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Guest Heaten   
Guest Heaten

9 mil per for Parise and Suter would have done it.

Indeed. Sure glad Holland isn't that stupid.

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I suppose you predicted Cole and Ryder would have career years last year?

Well no, but both have already scored 30 goals in the past,both add veteran present,both won the cup,both signed for a reasonable cap and Ken had money to sign one of them last summer.

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Holland low-balled Schultz, Parise and Suter this off-season. No doubt about it. He screwed up. No excuses.

...Schultz was very, very interested in us. We were, I think, 1 of 2 non western-Canadien teams on his list. He talked to us. And as soon as he talked to us, he was no longer interested. He wanted a top 4 guarantee. We wouldn't give it to him. I'm sure Holland/Babcock told him something along the lines of "you'll have a great chance to compete with six other defensemen" and he said "no thanks". Kronwall, White, Ericsson, Smith and Kindl were the only defensemen on our roster at that point. you're telling me we couldn't guarantee him a spot over Smith, to at least start the season!? Even if we signed Suter, we couldn't guarantee him a spot over Ericsson!? Why the hell not just tell him that he'll get one, give him one early in the season, and let him keep it or lose it. Step one is getting him here and we blew it because we're arrogant morons.

...Parise and Suter were a package deal the entire way. We completely insulted Parise with our offer and he didn't want to come here. Hence, Suter wasn't coming here. Again, arrogant morons.

Due to ELCs Schultz got the same offer from everyone. The only way we would have got Schultz or Suter/Parise is by moving the franchise to Canada or Minnisota.

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Well no, but both have already scored 30 goals in the past,both add veteran present,both won the cup,both signed for a reasonable cap and Ken had money to sign one of them last summer.

seems easy to GM a hockey team with 20/20 hindsight vision.

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Guest The Axe   
Guest The Axe

Why would it be stupid to offer Parise and Suter above what Minnesota was offering?

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Why would it be stupid to offer Parise and Suter above what Minnesota was offering?

13 years is an insane amount of term to offer a Free Agent. The next 13 years of your franchise's fate is in the hands of Suter and Parise, and honestly I 'm glad it didn't happen. We're better off without them. Also when you have top notch players like Zetterberg, Datysuk, and Kronwall on your team, what does that say to them, since Suter and Parise may not even be better than them.

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Guest Crymson   
Guest Crymson

seems easy to GM a hockey team with 20/20 hindsight vision.

Prepare the time machine, Watson!

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Actually, the Wings were prepared to offer Suter a pretty big contract themselves.

So Holland is that stupid.

I don't remember any reports of Holland offer two players $196million. Pretty sure they only offered Suter $80, then upped it to $90,which was their maximum bid. Glad he didn't take it. That's insane money for an above average defenseman.

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Guest Crymson   
Guest Crymson

Better get out the welcome banners for Hudler in 4 years.

How many times has that joke been used now?

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4 Year sample size? Cmon...How many Gm's have won 3 Stanley cups since 1997...waiting..waiting..waiting..there isn't any..it's more like 4 cups because the first one he was basically the GM..Bowman was on his way out. We go 4 years without a cup and this place goes bananas. We need to get better and I will be pissed if we don't make some moves but relax..the chips will fall where they may.

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Guest Johnz96   
Guest Johnz96

I don't remember any reports of Holland offer two players $196million. Pretty sure they only offered Suter $80, then upped it to $90,which was their maximum bid. Glad he didn't take it. That's insane money for an above average defenseman.

He is better than above average but hardly worth the contract

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Would you rather be Chicago right now? We were in the Cup Finals back to back years, then Chicago and the Bowmans get one Cup by being as dumb with the Salary Cap as possible, despite having TONS of young talent.

Detroit never bottomed out, so as far as I'm concerned, they might as well give away draft picks in the end of the 1st round (or lower) because Detroit seems as likely to hit in the 3rd round with some international player as they do anywhere else. The draft system is designed to gradually make bad teams better and slowly punish perennial playoff teams. Holland and Co. managed to buck that system for YEARS and still put a competitive team out there every season. They even managed to develop a pretty solid goalie out of a guy who was hardly a Luongo, DiPietro, or Fleury-type pick in terms of hype.

It is true that the Red Wings have been notoriously (and purposefully) short-sighted in many of their moves, but that's what you do when you already have a core of superstars like #13, #40, and #5. Now those guys are older (or retired), so I agree it is time to either sign or trade for someone younger who can make an impact. But to rip them for Leino (who they got for virtually nothing out of the Finnish Elite League) or guys like Tatar (who have barely gotten a cup of tea in the NHL yet) seems a bit unfair.

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Guest Heaten   
Guest Heaten

He is better than above average but hardly worth the contract

I can think of several dmen I would take over Suter if I had the chance. From Weber, Keith, Chara, and many,many more. I would argue Drew Doughty is a much better dman.

Suter hasn't won anything.

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Holland had an interview out of prospect camp quoting him saying that he did his best to grab suter. When he first contacted their agents they both said they didnt need to play together. Holland went after suter for our needs and straight up said the truth, " you cant have 4-6 11,12,13 yr contracts. And its the truth, you handcuff yourself. So with holland hearing that they werent a package deal and going after what we needed what else did you want him to do? The man tried, some of you act like he straight up hung up and said f you to both of them. He also stated that the babcock and zetterberg thing is fine. The players dont dispise babcock and that wasnt an influence in them not coming.

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Holland had an interview out of prospect camp quoting him saying that he did his best to grab suter. When he first contacted their agents they both said they didnt need to play together. Holland went after suter for our needs and straight up said the truth, " you cant have 4-6 11,12,13 yr contracts. And its the truth, you handcuff yourself. So with holland hearing that they werent a package deal and going after what we needed what else did you want him to do? The man tried, some of you act like he straight up hung up and said f you to both of them. He also stated that the babcock and zetterberg thing is fine. The players dont dispise babcock and that wasnt an influence in them not coming.

Careful, your reason won;'t go over too well over here. Didn't you know it was Holland's fault for global warming and the housing crash in America?

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It's not that Holland didn't get Suter, it's that getting Suter was apparently his only f***in' plan. And now he's scrambling to fill a hole he knew was coming for years because his brilliant plan of waiting til the last minute didn't work out. But don't let that stop all the Holland poodles from defending him.

esteef

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