With cap space to clear, do Flyers become a Wings trade partner?

[Seraph 240]

Jesus, if Holland goes and picks up the scraps from Philly, he will forever be cemented in my mind as a coupon snipping hockey mom GM. This, on top of the post-CBA discount deals he's after. The contract Philly offered was ridiculous, but still, I'd like to see Holland bust a real move some time this decade.

[number9 3,297]

On top of all that's been said about him, I'll add that he's also not afraid to challenge his teammates to do better (or "call them out," if you like).

I did a complete 180 with Hartnell after watching the Pens-Flyers series this year and the 24/7HBO thing. Have learned to love the guy. He's physical as hell but not really dirty and has a lot of personality.....he just plain pumps up the crowd. Fun to watch.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Coburn or Mezsaros would be wonderful. Doubt Holmgren wants to break down his defence after Weber signs, because it would be one of the best in the league.

[number9 3,297]

Coburn or Mezsaros would be wonderful. Doubt Holmgren wants to break down his defence after Weber signs, because it would be one of the best in the league.

He has to though...You can't be scratching one of Weber, Pronger, Coburn, Timonen, Meszaros, Schenn, or Grossmann each game....all are way to high a caliber and all make too much money to not be using them....Of course if Pronger really is done then that changes things

Did anyone ever think about this? What if Holmgren is doing Poile a favor? He convinces Weber to sign a long term deal at about 7 million a year...which is I'd say reasonable for him in this market....And now all Poile has to do is match it and hes got his captain, his star, locked up for 14 years!!! Weber clearly didn't want to be in Nashville the rest of his career and would probably be hitting UFA next year....Maybe Poile is doing whatever it takes to keep Weber a pred, even if it involves making backroom deals with Holmgren. Especially as he just watched Suter walk out the door which Weber would have been doing next summer. Now he can match and he has solved that whole dilemma quite nicely....meanwhile Holmgren loses nothing in the process and may have gained a lucrative backroom deal with Poile in the process.....Weber may have just been played like a cheap fiddle. Sucker.

Idk though, the whole things a big COULD BE, just thought I'd speculate

[swedishconnection 36]

He has to though...You can't be scratching one of Weber, Pronger, Coburn, Timonen, Meszaros, Schenn, or Grossmann each game....all are way to high a caliber and all make too much money to not be using them....Of course if Pronger really is done then that changes things

Did anyone ever think about this? What if Holmgren is doing Poile a favor? He convinces Weber to sign a long term deal at about 7 million a year...which is I'd say reasonable for him in this market....And now all Poile has to do is match it and hes got his captain, his star, locked up for 14 years!!! Weber clearly didn't want to be in Nashville the rest of his career and would probably be hitting UFA next year....Maybe Poile is doing whatever it takes to keep Weber a pred, even if it involves making backroom deals with Holmgren. Especially as he just watched Suter walk out the door which Weber would have been doing next summer. Now he can match and he has solved that whole dilemma quite nicely....meanwhile Holmgren loses nothing in the process and may have gained a lucrative backroom deal with Poile in the process.....Weber may have just been played like a cheap fiddle. Sucker.

Idk though, the whole things a big COULD BE, just thought I'd speculate

If that is the case then why did Philly front-load the contract? If the argument to that would be to make it appear less back-room, then it may very well limit NSH's ability to secure Weber. Wasnt it Matt who figured out in an earlier post that it would be 16% of the entire value of the team just to pay Weber in the first year? That simply cannot be a back door agreement. More likely Holmgren just wanted to force NSH's hand.

[Motown4013 350]

Pronger's cap hit will NOT count against the cap. PHI will eat his salary for the next five years by paying him to stay on LTIR and not retire until the contract has concluded. They did the same thing with Laperriere.

Also, there is zero chance Couturier gets traded.

PHI has been going all in for the last couple of years. Honestly, I hate to shoot everyone's fantasies down but what I said is true. I'd like a Coburn or Meszaros or whatever as much as any one else but it's not realistic. But good video buddy

Did you actually just say that here is zero chance Couturier gets traded? This from a GM who makes Ritchie a captian and inks Carter to a long term deal only to turn around and send both of them packing for easy breezy? You trust or can forsee anything this guy does???

In terms of LTIR....two years is much different than 5 to carry a salary...and the money is very different between lappy and Pronger....they aren't even comparable AND they still only have 22 forwards signed. As it's already been pointed out, who are they gonna make a healthy scratch on D? The newly acquired Schenn is gonna sit? Mezaros maybe...I don't think so. We will see what happens but expect more weirdness from the Philly brass.

[number9 3,297]

If that is the case then why did Philly front-load the contract? If the argument to that would be to make it appear less back-room, then it may very well limit NSH's ability to secure Weber. Wasnt it Matt who figured out in an earlier post that it would be 16% of the entire value of the team just to pay Weber in the first year? That simply cannot be a back door agreement. More likely Holmgren just wanted to force NSH's hand.

It's front loaded because of the CBA and the possible impending lockout. Simple.....It's the same reason why Parise and Suter were front loaded....If I was Weber I would demand a front loaded contract right now too.....And that doesn't make it appear less back room, it makes it appear less matchable and helps convince Weber to agree to the offer sheet.

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029]

To Philadelphia:

Johan Franzen

Valtteri Filppula

Patrick Eaves

Cory Emmerton

Draft pick

To Detroit:

Wayne Simmonds

Scott Hartnell

Jody Shelley

Niklas Grossman

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Hartnell

Simmonds-Brunner-Samuelsson

Cleary-Helm-Bertuzzi

Miller-Abdelkader-Tootoo

Shelley/Nyquist

Kronwall-White

Quincey-Ericsson

Grossman-B.Smith

Kindl

Problem?

[55fan 5,133]

So, cap geeks, please correct me if I'm wrong, but if the Flyers buy someone out to make room, and that someone is entering the last year of his contract, doesn't this leave the Flyers on the hook for half and the new team on the hook for the other half?

I think there is another payment schedule that is an alternative to this, but either way, it requires the new team to pay half to the player.

The reason I'm asking is that I was just thinking that instead of trading, we should see if they buy out Lilja. We could have him back for around... whatever half of 737.5k is. Not to shabby for a veteran dman.

Yes, 2007 was brutal, but remember that we lost that game in OT only because he scored the only goal in the game to take it to OT. Then he started improving.

At his age, he'd probably be there to push the kids along and be the go-to guy in case of injury. In essence, he'd be replacing Janik, but at a lower salary.

Just a thought. I look forward to capologists correcting/ informing me. I love learning about this stuff.

[FlashyG 1,799]

So, cap geeks, please correct me if I'm wrong, but if the Flyers buy someone out to make room, and that someone is entering the last year of his contract, doesn't this leave the Flyers on the hook for half and the new team on the hook for the other half?

I think there is another payment schedule that is an alternative to this, but either way, it requires the new team to pay half to the player.

The reason I'm asking is that I was just thinking that instead of trading, we should see if they buy out Lilja. We could have him back for around... whatever half of 737.5k is. Not to shabby for a veteran dman.

Yes, 2007 was brutal, but remember that we lost that game in OT only because he scored the only goal in the game to take it to OT. Then he started improving.

At his age, he'd probably be there to push the kids along and be the go-to guy in case of injury. In essence, he'd be replacing Janik, but at a lower salary.

Just a thought. I look forward to capologists correcting/ informing me. I love learning about this stuff.

If a player is bought out his former team is responsible for 2/3 his contract if he is older than 26 or 1/3 of his contract if under 26. The team then takes a cap hit for twice the amount of time remaining on the contract. Calculating the actual cap hit is complicated you can read about it here

Using Eaves as an example, he's getting 1.2 million a season from the Wings on his new deal and still receiving a portion of his salary from Boston on top of it.

[Vladiator 116]

I do agree, but seriously that's our number 1 FA target gone. I'd have said Suter would have been high on the list but given the choice Weber would have been top. We were simply going to wait for him. This bones us, regardless of how much better it makes us in the Nash and Ryan sweepstakes. I don't know the Free Agent classes to know of any other #1/#2 Dmen available in the next few years. That means we trade or we find within. Not saying we got worse, just it got a hell of a lot harder for us. Best we can hope for at the moment is that the league investigate the deal. It'd be nice to have Nash or Ryan but we need a top line Dman, not even top 4... TOP LINE

Agreed. Is there any way that Lids could be talked into coming back for one more year after seeing how the Wings failed to obtain a top 2 D? I know that Chelios could help with Smith's develpment, but being paired with Lids would be way more beneficial. I may be stocking more beer in the cooler than usual if the Wings can't grab another decent D before the season starts.

[Wing Across The Pond 196]

Agreed. Is there any way that Lids could be talked into coming back for one more year after seeing how the Wings failed to obtain a top 2 D? I know that Chelios could help with Smith's develpment, but being paired with Lids would be way more beneficial. I may be stocking more beer in the cooler than usual if the Wings can't grab another decent D before the season starts.

Lol I thought you were making a push for Cheli to come back then?!

[swedishconnection 36]

To Philadelphia:

Johan Franzen

Valtteri Filppula

Patrick Eaves

Cory Emmerton

Draft pick

To Detroit:

Wayne Simmonds

Scott Hartnell

Jody Shelley

Niklas Grossman

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Hartnell

Simmonds-Brunner-Samuelsson

Cleary-Helm-Bertuzzi

Miller-Abdelkader-Tootoo

Shelley/Nyquist

Kronwall-White

Quincey-Ericsson

Grossman-B.Smith

Kindl

Problem?

Welcome Back, BlueAdams. The only problem I see is that Brunner is not a center, and Nyqvist may actually get more playing time than him anyway.

[swedishconnection 36]

So, cap geeks, please correct me if I'm wrong, but if the Flyers buy someone out to make room, and that someone is entering the last year of his contract, doesn't this leave the Flyers on the hook for half and the new team on the hook for the other half?

I think there is another payment schedule that is an alternative to this, but either way, it requires the new team to pay half to the player.

The reason I'm asking is that I was just thinking that instead of trading, we should see if they buy out Lilja. We could have him back for around... whatever half of 737.5k is. Not to shabby for a veteran dman.

Yes, 2007 was brutal, but remember that we lost that game in OT only because he scored the only goal in the game to take it to OT. Then he started improving.

At his age, he'd probably be there to push the kids along and be the go-to guy in case of injury. In essence, he'd be replacing Janik, but at a lower salary.

Just a thought. I look forward to capologists correcting/ informing me. I love learning about this stuff.

Why did you need to bring up old salted wounds that none of us here at LGW have forgotten about? And then you have to use your ninja-logic to have us remember that he was the only one that scored in that game, which is something we have all conveniently disregarded...

[mmamolo 287]

He has to though...You can't be scratching one of Weber, Pronger, Coburn, Timonen, Meszaros, Schenn, or Grossmann each game....all are way to high a caliber and all make too much money to not be using them....Of course if Pronger really is done then that changes things

None of those players will sit. Pronger will, at a minimum, start the season on LTIR. Not only does that (temporarily, until he comes off LTIR if ever) remove his cap hit from PHI's cap structure but it eliminates their need to sit one of those names you listed.

Did you actually just say that here is zero chance Couturier gets traded? This from a GM who makes Ritchie a captian and inks Carter to a long term deal only to turn around and send both of them packing for easy breezy? You trust or can forsee anything this guy does???

In terms of LTIR....two years is much different than 5 to carry a salary...and the money is very different between lappy and Pronger....they aren't even comparable AND they still only have 22 forwards signed. As it's already been pointed out, who are they gonna make a healthy scratch on D? The newly acquired Schenn is gonna sit? Mezaros maybe...I don't think so. We will see what happens but expect more weirdness from the Philly brass.

NASH wanted at least one of B Schenn or Couturier in any Weber trade. PHI refused. Couturier will not be moved. Also, just because the money is more for Pronger, compared to Lapperiere, doesnt mean PHI isn't capable or willing to do the same for Pronger (eating the money).

As far as who sits just look at the above comment. Pronger is NOT starting this season on the active roster.

[Motown4013 350]

None of those players will sit. Pronger will, at a minimum, start the season on LTIR. Not only does that (temporarily, until he comes off LTIR if ever) remove his cap hit from PHI's cap structure but it eliminates their need to sit one of those names you listed.

NASH wanted at least one of B Schenn or Couturier in any Weber trade. PHI refused. Couturier will not be moved. Also, just because the money is more for Pronger, compared to Lapperiere, doesnt mean PHI isn't capable or willing to do the same for Pronger (eating the money).

As far as who sits just look at the above comment. Pronger is NOT starting this season on the active roster.

I understand how this works...i just agree with number 9 here that they have enough D to shore up one for some cash and give how the first 4 years are going to kill Philly with the Weber contract (if Nash doesnt match) they will need to free up some space. Thats how I see it......time will tell

[Dabura 12,232]

I did a complete 180 with Hartnell after watching the Pens-Flyers series this year and the 24/7HBO thing. Have learned to love the guy. He's physical as hell but not really dirty and has a lot of personality.....he just plain pumps up the crowd. Fun to watch.

Oh, he's plenty dirty. But, honestly, that's a huge part of his appeal (if he's on your team, and/or you can be objective about him).

The Flyers are my hometown team. I've hated them - or, at least, their fans - with a passion for most of my life. But this roster is something else, something pretty special, I think. Briere, Hartnell, Giroux, Couturier - so much firepower. And now their biggest shortcoming (all things D) looks like it'll be getting a shot in the arm in the form of Shae Weber, a.k.a. arguably the best defenseman in the league. I think that qualifies as sick.

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Hartnell

I. Want. Now.

[evilmrt 636]

Question....if the Flyers don't move anyone after getting Weber, and they have so little cap space...then Pronger will be unable to be re-activated for presumably the entire season, correct?

Do you really think he wants that, or does he not really care about sitting on LTIR all season with the knowledge that he has no possibility of playing? I could see a player in a situation like that suddenly retiring, and then Philly would suddenly have a fire sale because they'd be ineligible to play the next game until they did (right?) lol. It is a little too risky for them to NOT dump some players during the offseason.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Oh, he's plenty dirty. But, honestly, that's a huge part of his appeal (if he's on your team, and/or you can be objective about him).

The Flyers are my hometown team. I've hated them - or, at least, their fans - with a passion for most of my life. But this roster is something else, something pretty special, I think. Briere, Hartnell, Giroux, Couturier - so much firepower. And now their biggest shortcoming (all things D) looks like it'll be getting a shot in the arm in the form of Shae Weber, a.k.a. arguably the best defenseman in the league. I think that qualifies as sick.

I. Want. Now.

Is he really that dirty still? I don't get to see him play much but I had the same impression that he'd gotten a little better. My perspective may be skewed by seeing him mostly in playoff games.

Honestly I think Briere is dirtier than Hartnell. The Flyers are a fun team to watch though. If they ever find a stable goaltender they could do some serious damage.

[brett 1,029]

the only player id trade for is luke schenn and briere

[St. Michael (the Red Wing) 422]

Are there any realistic options on getting a certain someone from Philly? Not who everyone just prefers. Is Hartnell a UFA next offeason?

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029]

Are there any realistic options on getting a certain someone from Philly? Not who everyone just prefers. Is Hartnell a UFA next offeason?

Hartnell is a UFA next summer. I'd also like Simmonds, as well.

[Guest Johnz96]

Lilja?

[Bring Back The Bruise Bros 1,029]

Lilja?

Hell no. If we're gonna trade for a bottom pairing, shut-down defenseman, if better be either John Erskine or Steve Montador. If we don't go the trade route, then it better be Jim Vandermeer.

[mmamolo 287]

I understand how this works...i just agree with number 9 here that they have enough D to shore up one for some cash and give how the first 4 years are going to kill Philly with the Weber contract (if Nash doesnt match) they will need to free up some space. Thats how I see it......time will tell

Maybe PHI does end up moving one of their D but all Im really saying is that they dont HAVE to. They may feel that's the best way to go but they definitely don't have to do it.