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[Retired] Official Lockout Thread

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Nick Cotsonika@cotsonika

Bettman: Players made pension plan key element, after making make-whole and contracting elements key elements in past.

Nick Cotsonika@cotsonika

Bettman: Owners outlined what key elements they needed in exchange for pension plan, so they were expecting yes or no.

Nick Cotsonika@cotsonika

Bettman: It wasn't intended to be a negotiating session. Answer wasn't "yes."

Frank Seravalli@DNFlyers

Gary Bettman appears visibly rattled. Understandably so. Season is in serious peril.

Elliotte Friedman@FriedgeHNIC

Owners said there were three things we had to have and we'll make it work on pensions. Needed them to make it. Needed a yes or a no.

Mike Commodore@commie22

Gary "Hi Mike its Gary..things just aren't working out between us...its not you its me...we can't be together anymore, bye"

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Nick Cotsonika@cotsonika

Bettman: Bottom line is union is suggesting because we moved, close to deal. But moves were contingent on things union did not agree to.

Nick Cotsonika@cotsonika

Bettman: The characterization that we were close, that reminds me of the last time the union said we were close and we were $1B apart.

Nick Cotsonika@cotsonika

Bettman: Spinning us into "emotional frenzy" is unfair.

Nick Cotsonika@cotsonika

Bettman: We have moved dramatically. We are proposing long-term system that will pay players billions.

Nick Cotsonika@cotsonika

Bettman: I am disappointed beyond belief that we are where we are tonight. Need to take a deep breath and try to regroup.

Nick Cotsonika@cotsonika

Bettman: Things added to table this week are now off the table.

Nick Cotsonika@cotsonika

Bettman: Made best offer, then stretched. Went further than we should have. When it didn't get right response, clubs wanted make-whole gone.

Nick Cotsonika@cotsonika

Bettman: I wanted to do everything possible to try to get to a deal.

Nick Cotsonika@cotsonika

Daly: This whole week has been about a package deal.

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No kidding. I think I'm in an abusive relationship with the NHL.

Fehr has had his doomsday speech, then cue Bettman whining about not having a willing negotiating partner and we're back right where we started. again. and again.

Speaking of doomsday, Fehr reminds me of Dr. Strangelove, and all these meetings remind me of the "War Room" in the movie. These morons will never get anything accomplished.

Except this s*** isn't funny and the league will be ruined after this.

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Oh boo hoo, now we're pulling things off the table again. Only fitting because it seems like a bunch of toddlers have been running these negotiations all along.

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kinda funny how right when bettman and fehr get back into the fold, things all go to sh*t....

No kidding. My favorite parts of Bettman's speech:

Bettman: Owners said union "clearly doesn't want to make a deal." Players wanted to get back on track.
Bettman: Owners outlined what key elements they needed in exchange for pension plan, so they were expecting yes or no.
Bettman: It wasn't intended to be a negotiating session. Answer wasn't "yes."

So he claims the NHLPA doesn't want to make a deal, but the owners basically said "take it or leave it" regarding the pension plan. Makes sense.

I'm glad Bettman looks rattled. Hopefully because he's worried about losing his job.

Lebrun:

Bettman confirms the elements the league added to the table this week are now OFF the table
Bettman says the Make Whole provision in its entirety as a concept is OFF the table.

There's so much b.s. and spin going on I can't even tell what they actually are still disagreeing on.

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No kidding. My favorite parts of Bettman's speech:

So he claims the NHLPA doesn't want to make a deal, but the owners basically said "take it or leave it" regarding the pension plan. Makes sense.

I'm glad Bettman looks rattled. Hopefully because he's worried about losing his job.

Lebrun:

There's so much b.s. and spin going on I can't even tell what they actually are still disagreeing on.

"my way or no way" - Bettman.... it's like his negotiating tactics have been the same since he was 5

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Bettman and D. Fehr's careers should be OFF the table. I will never understand the take my toys and go home mentality. So, because the progress they made didn't lead to a deal, they should scorch the earth and set negotiations and any leftover good will back to square one? There is a clear absence of common sense in that room...

haroldsnepsts and F.Michael like this

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"my way or no way" - Bettman.... it's like his negotiating tactics have been the same since he was 5

That's the thing, it's just so friggin hard to tell. From what I read on TSN it sounds like the league made a pretty good offer, one that should be able to get worked into a final deal.

Then it sounds like the union comes back closer to their demands but not accepting them outright, so the league bolts again.

Could it possibly be true they rejected the offer via voicemail??

But it's all so much conjecture I can't really even tell how far apart they are. I know the league wants 10 year CBA, didn't the union propose 8 years? Have both sides not heard of the number 9?

And while I think not honoring existing contracts is a screw job, it seems like something the owners are willing to sacrifice at least one season for. And the league apparently did increase make whole money. but it gets convoluted so friggin fast.

Though it is pretty funny Bettman saying the NHLPA offer was insulting to the owners, given what the owners first offer in this whole mess was.

chances14 likes this

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That's the thing, it's just so friggin hard to tell. From what I read on TSN it sounds like the league made a pretty good offer, one that should be able to get worked into a final deal.

Then it sounds like the union comes back closer to their demands but not accepting them outright, the league bolts again.

But it's all so much conjecture I can't really even tell how far apart they are. I know the league wants 10 year CBA, didn't the union propose 8 years? Have both sides not heard of the number 9?

And while I think not honoring existing contracts is a screw job, it seems like something the owners are willing to sacrifice at least one season for. And the league apparently did increase make whole money. but it gets convoluted so friggin fast.

Though it is pretty funny Bettman saying the NHLPA offer was insulting to the owners, given what the owners first offer in this whole mess was.

agreed. i don't know what they are disagreeing on at this point.

bettman isn't doing himself any favors right now. letting emotions get the best of him.

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That's the thing, it's just so friggin hard to tell. From what I read on TSN it sounds like the league made a pretty good offer, one that should be able to get worked into a final deal.

Then it sounds like the union comes back closer to their demands but not accepting them outright, so the league bolts again.

But it's all so much conjecture I can't really even tell how far apart they are. I know the league wants 10 year CBA, didn't the union propose 8 years? Have both sides not heard of the number 9?

And while I think not honoring existing contracts is a screw job, it seems like something the owners are willing to sacrifice at least one season for. And the league apparently did increase make whole money. but it gets convoluted so friggin fast.

Though it is pretty funny Bettman saying the NHLPA offer was insulting to the owners, given what the owners first offer in this whole mess was.

Bolded is exactly what I was thinking when i first read he thought the offer was insulting....

but no matter how "bad" the deal was or whatever, i don't see why the NHL wouldn't at least sit back down and talk about it rather than saying "nope! bye!" ....which is the impression I'm getting.

i'm sure the PA offer was something to work off of/their best one yet, otherwise why would they offer it? idk, maybe i'm wrong.. just seems dumb to stop negotiating right now.. or at all for that matter.

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The owners were insulted that they added almost $100M to the make whole provision (from $211M to $300M, which $50M was to come from player revenues) and the PA didn't accept their offer as-is. I can't believe he said it wasn't a negotiation, if that was an accurate quote. How do they expect this to work?

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Bolded is exactly what I was thinking when i first read he thought the offer was insulting....

Thirded. The only thing "insulting" about the PA's offer is that they dared NEGOTIATE off the NHL's last offer. Isn't that what they're supposed to be doing?!

Edit: spanked by rrasco!

Edited by BottleOfSmoke

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Make whole provision is off table entirely.

Why don't they just call the season right now then?

How the hell could they do this, grow up. I'm so devastated by tonight.

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I am having Twitter problems again, but was following on my phone. Bettman just laid it all on the line. I'm blown away by what just happened. Steve Fehr and a contingent of players were in the room listening. It sounded tense. And Bettman literally just threw a fit.

Can't imagine any less than 48 games. Said there is no magic date. His was Oct 11, the start of the season. Then he said he was being told it's Jan 1. So now we have a date. Make whole is off the table. Everything this week is off the table.

Lebrun says expect statements from all 4 owners that were present this week.

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Thirded. The only thing "insulting" about the PA's offer is that they dared NEGOTIATE off the NHL's last offer. Isn't that what they're supposed to be doing?!

Edit: spanked by rrasco!

Bettman's response to essentially that very question:

Bettman: "It's easy to say keep negotiating. At some point, you have to be in a position to say, 'This is what we need.' "

So he keeps claiming the NHLPA isn't interested in negotiating, but then follows it by what sounds like take it or leave it demands by the league.

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oh boy

Scottie Upshall@ScottieUpshall

There's no pressure yet on the owners to lose this year, that's why they still treat us like Cattle. They'll need a partner come January.

if this is the attitude of the players and fehr, they are going to be in for a rude awakening. these nhl owners are a different breed than other pro sports owners

hillbillywingsfan likes this

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oh boy

if this is the attitude of the players and fehr, they are going to be in for a rude awakening. these nhl owners are a different breed than other pro sports owners

if that is the players and ferh's attitudes, and they don't change.. kiss the season goodbye.

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owners statementon cba talks

We were therefore surprised when the Fehrs made a unilateral and "non-negotiable" decision - which is their right, to end the player/owner process that has moved us farther in two days than we have moved at any time in the past months.

i believe this is what pissed the owners and bettman off the most

Edited by chances14

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if that is the players and ferh's attitudes, and they don't change.. kiss the season goodbye.

As I said earlier...If Fehr really thinks he can push the NHL owners around like he had with MLB - well goodbye NHL season 2012/2013.

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Though it is pretty funny Bettman saying the NHLPA offer was insulting to the owners, given what the owners first offer in this whole mess was.

Fehr is pontificating to the media as well. Both sides in this are just sickening.

As I said earlier...If Fehr really thinks he can push the NHL owners around like he had with MLB - well goodbye NHL season 2012/2013.

At this point, I believe Fehr has a ulterior motive. He will move to impose a luxury tax after the season is cancelled.

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