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Holland has only traded two roster players since 2002


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#1 Dave Anderson

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 01:25 PM

A thought for all of those hoping Holland will trade for a #1 defenceman:

 

Going over Ken Holland's moves, I noticed that he has only traded two regular roster players (i.e. players that have played at least 82 games for the Red Wings) since 2002. He traded Jamie Rivers in 2006 and Shawn Matthias in 2007. Not exactly blockbusters.

He has not traded a regular player in almost six years.

1. Why do you think he has chosen this strategy?

2. Do you think the strategy will change now that Lidstrom is retired?


Ref: List of all of Ken Holland's moves.



#2 evilzyme

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 01:32 PM

Just to throw a little counter-argument your way to open up the debate a little, how has history been with Holland traveling and meeting with UFAs? I feel like he also went out of his element this post-season and went and traveled Ryan Suter. So while he hasn't traded much in the past, I wouldn't make it a end-game for him to do it within the future.


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#3 chances14

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 01:36 PM

 i think holland's trade record should be judged on the players that he has brought in rather than simply looking at the players that he has traded away.



#4 Carman

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 01:42 PM

Free agency is usually a better option. We have had a roster that has proven to be back to back Stanley Cup contenders so there hasn't been a need to drastically change the teams make-up(which very well can change post-Lidstrom), and we have had little cap space, which makes it tough to trade roster players for roster players.

 

Another reason is the cost of a lot of these players, I was really high on the wings going for Brent Burnsa while ago, but San Jose really really overpaid for him, and made their team worse in my opinion. San Jose had to give up a pretty good second line player on a great contract(setoguchi), their best prospect at the time(Coyle), and a first round pick. We would have given up Filpulla, Smith/Nyquist, and a first for Brent Burns, or maybe even more considering Filpulla's contract isn't as valuable as Setoguchi's. Personally I'm glad we passed on Burns, and tried our luck going after Suter. That's just one example, but other than Burns there hasn't been that many #1, or #2 defenseman traded the past few seasons, especially ones that would fit with Kronwall's style.



#5 up2here

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 01:45 PM

Adding the 'Players who have played in at least 82 games' caveat is kinda unfair I think. Those kind of trades dont happen that much in general.

 

I think Kenny is very careful not to overpay either via trade or in Free Agency and I appreciate that.



#6 Chunkylover

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 02:38 PM

A thought for all of those hoping Holland will trade for a #1 defenceman:

 

Going over Ken Holland's moves, I noticed that he has only traded two regular roster players (i.e. players that have played at least 82 games for the Red Wings) since 2002. He traded Jamie Rivers in 2006 and Shawn Matthias in 2007. Not exactly blockbusters.

He has not traded a regular player in almost six years.

1. Why do you think he has chosen this strategy?

2. Do you think the strategy will change now that Lidstrom is retired?


Ref: List of all of Ken Holland's moves.

I don't think Matthias ever played for the Wings. He did trade Jason Williams for Kyle Calder, didn't he? Williams was with the Wings for the '02 Cup through the '07 season, if I am not mistaken.



#7 mjtm77

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 03:00 PM

fire holland :scared:


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#8 Nev

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 03:06 PM

Holland has also been to the playoffs every season since 2002, won 7 division titles, 3 Presidents Trophies, 2 Western Conference championships, and 1 Stanley Cup.

 

I'd say not trading roster players has worked out pretty well for him.


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#9 evilmrt

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 03:13 PM

Revisit the topic if they don't make the playoffs. The end. 



#10 LeftWinger

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 03:23 PM

I don't think Matthias ever played for the Wings. He did trade Jason Williams for Kyle Calder, didn't he? Williams was with the Wings for the '02 Cup through the '07 season, if I am not mistaken.

 

Yes, and even though he didn't quite reach 80 games with the Wings, Sean Avery was a big part of this team for a couple of years and he was traded for Schneider along with Kuznetsov who played over 100 games with Detroit. He also trade Brad Stuart this off season.

 

It's very nice to read that other forum and see that Holland indeed was NOT the GM when Shanahan was acquired. So everyone who believes that Holland built the core of the Dyanasty of the mid 90's to 2002 can rest assured that Bryan Murray and Scotty Bowman did.  I am not knocking Kenny (too much) because he is a great GM, but he pretty much inherited the team that won all those Cups.  We are honestly now seeing (with the retirement of Homer) an entire team built by Ken Holland.

 

I am also filing an official protest against him for trading Aaron Ward for the draft pick they used to get Hudler...Aaron would have been far more valuable to this team than Hudler ever was...plus Ward would not have held Holland hostage during a contract negotiation and then bolt to Russia. :P


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#11 Jersey Wing

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 03:39 PM

Dave, how are we supposed to win tickets if you give us the answers?


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#12 hooon

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 04:12 PM

Not trying to discredit the OP, but I can think of more than 2 players. And neither Matthias or Rivers fulfill the 82gp requirement stated in the OP.

 

 

A little confused about this thread TBH....


Edited by hooon, 14 January 2013 - 04:15 PM.

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#13 Barrie

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 07:59 PM

I guess some people still don't understand the changes that were made in the 2004-05 lockout. A salary cap went into place, now trades are like they are in the NBA, mostly salary dumps. Look at the last 7 trade deadlines, they're nothing like they were before the 04-05 lockout.

 

People seem to think this still the early 2000's when teams could spend and do what they want. It's a different world out there now. Teams need to draft and develop their own players. Even Free Agency isn't what it used to be, the maket is over inflated.

 

Yes I'm being sarcastic, but I'm surprised that there's so many people that still don't understand how everything works. Holland can't make Chelios, Schneider, and Lang type trades anymore. Also signing Suter for 13 years is insane!


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#14 Echolalia

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 08:06 PM

I guess some people still don't understand the changes that were made in the 2004-05 lockout. A salary cap went into place, now trades are like they are in the NBA, mostly salary dumps. Look at the last 7 trade deadlines, they're nothing like they were before the 04-05 lockout.

 

People seem to think this still the early 2000's when teams could spend and do what they want. It's a different world out there now. Teams need to draft and develop their own players. Even Free Agency isn't what it used to be, the maket is over inflated.

 

Yes I'm being sarcastic, but I'm surprised that there's so many people that still don't understand how everything works. Holland can't make Chelios, Schneider, and Lang type trades anymore. Also signing Suter for 13 years is insane!

 

What's there to be sarcastic about? This seems a pretty spot on assessment to me.



#15 ben_usmc

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 08:09 PM

Jason Williams?


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#16 chrisdetroit

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 08:37 PM

A thought for all of those hoping Holland will trade for a #1 defenceman:

 

Going over Ken Holland's moves, I noticed that he has only traded two regular roster players (i.e. players that have played at least 82 games for the Red Wings) since 2002. He traded Jamie Rivers in 2006 and Shawn Matthias in 2007. Not exactly blockbusters.

He has not traded a regular player in almost six years.

1. Why do you think he has chosen this strategy?

2. Do you think the strategy will change now that Lidstrom is retired?


Ref: List of all of Ken Holland's moves

 

And in that same time period, the team has gone to the final 3 times and won 2 cups..


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#17 evilzyme

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 09:06 PM

Right after this I had gone on HFB, only to find the same exact thread there... I wonder if the OP posted to both forums or if this OP straight up copied the one over there... 


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#18 The Axe

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 10:08 PM

No Parise. No Suter. Holland should have made these happen.

#19 Ally

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 12:06 AM

Holland worked his tail off trying to get Suter. Let it go.

 
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#20 Crymson

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 12:45 AM

I think that OP lost all legitimacy for forgetting Leino and Williams. And yes, I say Leino despite OP's silly 82-game stipulation, because he played 62 games for the Wings (including nine in the playoffs, two of those in the SCF) and would have played an entire season if not for his attitude. Also working against OP's now-zero legitimacy is the fact that Shawn Matthias never played a single game in a Red Wings uniform. It's also interesting how OP ignores that Holland has made numerous large deals, as if trades only count if they include roster players. 

 

Yes, and even though he didn't quite reach 80 games with the Wings, Sean Avery was a big part of this team for a couple of years and he was traded for Schneider along with Kuznetsov who played over 100 games with Detroit.

 

Zing. Another strike against the OP, who clearly did not do his research.


Edited by Crymson, 15 January 2013 - 12:55 AM.






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