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Jordin Tootoo: Usage? (6:57 TOI vs. Columbus)


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#1 StormJH1

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 11:49 AM

The purpose of this thread is not to troll Jordin Tootoo as a hockey player or a person.  I've done that in the past, but the season has started now, and Tootoo is player for the Red Wings, like it or not.

 

But given that he played all of 6:57 out of a 65-minute game last night, I really wonder what his role is supposed to be on this team.   We all saw the fight at the start of the game.  Perhaps you believe that Jordin Tootoo being willing to more or less get his face beat in for his new team "inspired" the Wings to badly out-shoot Columbus in the early going.  I'd like to think that after a 6-0 embarrassment against a division rival on Saturday, this team is professional enough to come out stronger next game, with or without the fisticuffs.

 

But Tootoo is not an "enforcer" like John Scott.  He's not even really a "fighter" - more of a pest.  And as a avowed Tootoo hater, I thought he actually had some good shifts later in the first, got some shots on net, and showed some of the "pestiness" he was supposedly hired for.

 

My point is this: If Tootoo isn't going to play on special teams, and is basically a 4th liner who won't see time in one-goal games, is that the best use of a $1.9 million AAC acquisition?  I understand there were an absurd number of penalties yesterday.  But is this an anomaly, or is Jordin Tootoo regularly going to play less minutes than a guy like Emmerton?



#2 evilzyme

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 11:53 AM

We controlled majority of the play yesterday, just couldn't convert. I thought he brought a great dimension that we've been missing in the first. Once that pace was set, his role wasn't needed to the full extent anymore. In a game like last night, we needed our scorers out there, we need our big 2-way players, etc. We didn't need TooToo running bodies all night, we had to adapt to the play and we did. I think we used him when we needed him, and he excelled at his job. When we knew things were getting called easy, and tootoo was a main target on the calls, we needed to hold him back. Can't send out a player that the refs have an eye for that night, you're just asking for trouble when you don't want it.


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#3 GMRwings1983

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 11:57 AM

Wasn't the entire game a powerplay fest?


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#4 uk_redwing

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 12:11 PM

He's played on the PK in the past but we have a load of guys already specialised on the PK so it's understandable that between being on the PK and being on the PP there wasn't much ice time for him last night with all 4 lines to roll.

 

Seems all hockey games have been PP fests since the season began. That's the league saying "sorry" :sleepy:


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#5 amato

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 12:11 PM

Penalties had a lot to do with it. In the third there were 8 going either way (mostly our way) in about 12 min....

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#6 Mikeal

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 12:20 PM

I thought Tootoo was one of our better players yesterday.  He had a couple of good shots, was active on the forecheck, and didn't make any big mistakes.



#7 laserijk

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 12:22 PM

I said this in another thread, but I don't think Tootoo dropped the gloves last night for any reason to do with teamwork or "firing up" his team. He has history with the Blue Jackets from his time in Trashville, and this tended to happen regularly whenever those two sad sack teams met. With that said, I agree with StormJH1's overall opinion - what exactly are we getting for our money here?



#8 Din758

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 12:25 PM

tootoo was a madman last night. and if****** loved it.


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#9 WorkingOvertime

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 12:28 PM

I said this in another thread, but I don't think Tootoo dropped the gloves last night for any reason to do with teamwork or "firing up" his team. He has history with the Blue Jackets from his time in Trashville, and this tended to happen regularly whenever those two sad sack teams met. With that said, I agree with StormJH1's overall opinion - what exactly are we getting for our money here?

Tootoo had only fought Boll twice before last night.

 

Babcock set the fourth line to go out first, and he took them off after the fight. The Wings needed to set the tone early, through a big hit, fight, forecheck,etc. after the Blues game.



#10 evilzyme

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 12:34 PM

Tootoo had only fought Boll twice before last night.

 

Babcock set the fourth line to go out first, and he took them off after the fight. The Wings needed to set the tone early, through a big hit, fight, forecheck,etc. after the Blues game.

This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

babcock had the freedom to put out any line he wanted, he put tootoo's line out there for a reason and they matched it for a reason. that and go watch the replay of that face-off, before the puck even dropped tootoo was backing up. the minute i saw him start going backwards off the face-off i immediately registered, HERE GOES THE GLOVES BABAY, sure enough bada bing. 


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#11 toby91_ca

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 12:35 PM

I think it's mostly to do with very little 5 on 5 time last night.  I think, generally, he's only going to be playing 5 on 5, which is fine.  If you look at last night's game, I think there was only about 33 minutes in 5 on 5 action.  Of those minutes, he was in the box for 5 of them.  So, there was really only 27 minutes available to get him out there.  If you split that time evenly amongst 4 lines, that's a little under 7 minutes a line.  It obviously isn't an exact science, but that leads me to conclude that his little under 7 minutes makes perfect sense.  He's likely to play more than that most nights, but in penalty filled games, he'll likely play less.



#12 Mors

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 12:37 PM

Tootoo rocked that guy McKenzie two or three times last night, I was pleased with his performance ;)



#13 StormJH1

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 12:41 PM

I said this in another thread, but I don't think Tootoo dropped the gloves last night for any reason to do with teamwork or "firing up" his team. He has history with the Blue Jackets from his time in Trashville, and this tended to happen regularly whenever those two sad sack teams met. With that said, I agree with StormJH1's overall opinion - what exactly are we getting for our money here?

 

I'm sure he has history with a lot of teams...including Detroit.  Still, Babcock has to pick the starting lineup, and Tootoo would be an interesting selection if he didn't at least think there was a chance of happening.  This is not an organization that I would view as being receptive to players taking care of personal vendettas.

 

The people who like Tootoo's game (and there are actually a lot of them on LGW) tell me that he "draws penalties" and disrupts the other team.  But he has to be playing to do those things, and if you prorate the PIM's he takes over an 82-game season, it's in the 150-200 range.  Yes, some of those are fighting majors that don't leave the team shorthanded, but that's not the Jordin Tootoo I recall.  The Nashville player I recall took dumb, selfish minors in the corners.  That is, when he wasn't a healthy scratch in the playoffs.

 

I'm sure he'll see more minutes in more "ideal" situations for him.  I just don't thing those "ideal" Tootoo situation will or should include any of the following:

 

  • Penalty killing, especially with Helm and Eaves back
  • One-goal games
  • Chippy games where Tootoo aggravates the other team into additional fights/cheap shots, escalating the risk of injury to players that matter
  • Fights against pretty much any "enforcer" taller than 6'2"


#14 GMRwings1983

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 12:44 PM

Is it just me, or has Boll fought all our fighters from the last few years?

 

Downey

Lilja

May

Tootoo

 

 

I was going to type in Ericsson, but it was Dorsett who Ericsson fought last year.  



I'm sure he has history with a lot of teams...including Detroit.  Still, Babcock has to pick the starting lineup, and Tootoo would be an interesting selection if he didn't at least think there was a chance of happening.  This is not an organization that I would view as being receptive to players taking care of personal vendettas.

 

The people who like Tootoo's game (and there are actually a lot of them on LGW) tell me that he "draws penalties" and disrupts the other team.  But he has to be playing to do those things, and if you prorate the PIM's he takes over an 82-game season, it's in the 150-200 range.  Yes, some of those are fighting majors that don't leave the team shorthanded, but that's not the Jordin Tootoo I recall.  The Nashville player I recall took dumb, selfish minors in the corners.  That is, when he wasn't a healthy scratch in the playoffs.

 

I'm sure he'll see more minutes in more "ideal" situations for him.  I just don't thing those "ideal" Tootoo situation will or should include any of the following:

 

  • Penalty killing, especially with Helm and Eaves back
  • One-goal games
  • Chippy games where Tootoo aggravates the other team into additional fights/cheap shots, escalating the risk of injury to players that matter
  • Fights against pretty much any "enforcer" taller than 6'2"

 

He can beat taller guys, but Tootoo isn't as great a fighter as he used to be several years ago.

 

Just be happy that he's willing and will stick up for the team.  I don't expect him to win many fights this year.  


Edited by GMRwings1983, 22 January 2013 - 12:43 PM.

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#15 shoobiedoobin

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 12:46 PM

tootoo was a madman last night. and if****** loved it.

This. We want a fighter and when we get one we complain that he's somehow not a fighter? We want a pest who can also play and not be a slug in lead skates? And when we get him we desperately scramble to discredit him by using his TOI after 2 games?

 

Don't we look for things to bother ourselves with?



#16 number9

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 12:48 PM

As to the comparison to John Scott. Yes Scott is HUGE and is a heavy weight fighter because of that, but he is a pylon, can't skate or score. Toots is smaller and not a heavy weight fighter, but he has wheels, is not a liability on deffense, and can actually shoot the puck somewhat decently, I mean he was good for 30 pts last year.

But yes he is a pest, which is a dimension we haven't had on this team in a while.



#17 CrimsonFlame

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 12:48 PM

I feel Tootoo is nothing more than a role player.  And while fighting is cool and all we need hockey players first and foremost, and fighters second.  And I think we have better hockey players on the roster than Tootoo that can use the ice time better than him. 



#18 GMRwings1983

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 12:52 PM

I feel Tootoo is nothing more than a role player.  And while fighting is cool and all we need hockey players first and foremost, and fighters second.  And I think we have better hockey players on the roster than Tootoo that can use the ice time better than him. 

 

We don't have anyone who can play the physical game he plays.  

 

Helm would be the closest, but Tootoo is more physical and more dangerous to play against than Helm.  And Helm is seemingly always hurt now to boot.  

 

If you're looking to bench someone who isn't contributing in their "role", it wouldn't be Tootoo.  

 

And role players are very important to teams.  You make them sound pointless in your first sentence.  The Wings wouldn't have won any of our Cups without role players.   


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#19 number9

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 12:56 PM

Your bottom 6 is supposed to create energy, grind down the other team, and maybe score a little bit. Tootoo does all 3 of those things.



#20 jollymania

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 12:57 PM

Tootoo made an impact, fought, then hammered MAcKenzie after the cheap hit on Smith. Even had a few shots on net. He just got pretty much benched in the 3rd when dats and z were lugging big minutes.


Edited by jollymania, 22 January 2013 - 12:57 PM.

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