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Andy Pred 48

No need to panic

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Do you really think Holland is going to come out in his pressers and say exactly what you want him to say? GM's dont answer to us , they answer to their boss.

He's GM for a reason and whether you like his decisions or hate them the bottom line is that without him, we wouldnt have cup expectations year in and year out.

The Wings brass know what the pulse of the team and their needs are and we all have our opinions as to that as well.

Its fun to rant and expouse all of our personal NHL GM experience but we could be 15-0 right now and plenty of you debbie downers would still be moaning and wanting Hollanfs head on a stick and ***** how hes doing it by luck or others peoples hard work.

Way I see it is that the 'rules' keep changing and the field of play has been leveled and still the Wings are in the hunt.

60 minutes of hockey is all this team needs....I dont have the answer as to how to get it...Players decide how hard and if they want to compete...bot GM's.

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Ah yes, the classic "It's not Holland's fault!" excuse. Like there were no better d-men to be had via trade or free agency that were better than Quincey or Colieakmsxkndnhdsvo. Poor old Holland. I mean Lids and Stuart leaving were a complete surprise to him. As you said though, at least Brunner has worked out so far, which again is because of a scout and not through Holland's trade prowess or draft genius. Holland's real good at finding pieces that nobody really wants and hoping they turn it around in Detroit, but he hasn't competed against other teams for a top talent and won in a long time, and it's become painfully obvious.

esteef

If he went chasing the flavor of the month every year like San Jose does you'd be happy. BUT look at San Jose, they have depleated their prospects to the point where their prosepect are LAST in the NHL. But hey, they always seem to land the hot commodity. A hell of a price to pay. Mortgage the future for the flavor of the month.. LOL

We could probably get a top D man for Nyquist, Tartar, Smith, etc.

No thanks.

puckbags and DSM like this

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Brunner has the potential to be a start. In fact if he wasn't 26 he'd be in the running for Rookie of the Year.

Smith has the potential to be a star.

Nyquist

Tartar

Mrazek

All of these guys are under 30 and highly rated by the "experts" but I don't mean to ruin your pessimism with facts.

Huh? Other than not meeting the age requirement, Brunner is in the running for Rookie of the Year. WHEN exactly is it time to decided he has potential? When it agrees with your point?

I agree with everything you said but the last point, crimson never said Brunner doesn't have potential, he just said it is too soon to classify him as a star player, which I agree with, but if he continues playing this well, he will be a star player

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Brunner has the potential to be a start. In fact if he wasn't 26 he'd be in the running for Rookie of the Year.

Smith has the potential to be a star.

Nyquist

Tartar

Mrazek

All of these guys are under 30 and highly rated by the "experts" but I don't mean to ruin your pessimism with facts.

Huh? Other than not meeting the age requirement, Brunner is in the running for Rookie of the Year. WHEN exactly is it time to decided he has potential? When it agrees with your point?

It's not his age. It's that he's only played 16 games so far. Let's wait at least a full (half lol) season at least before we start declaring people young stars. He could very easily fall off the map for the next two months

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Maybes and opinions of experts only go so far. The jump from non-NHL talent to NHL talent is a big one, and then becoming a dominating, All Star team leader type player is another huge jump. Lots of players are supposed to be good or great and then don't pan out. I wouldn't bet too much on "the future".

Edited by AtomicPunk
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Do you really think Holland is going to come out in his pressers and say exactly what you want him to say? GM's dont answer to us , they answer to their boss.

He's GM for a reason and whether you like his decisions or hate them the bottom line is that without him, we wouldnt have cup expectations year in and year out.

The Wings brass know what the pulse of the team and their needs are and we all have our opinions as to that as well.

Its fun to rant and expouse all of our personal NHL GM experience but we could be 15-0 right now and plenty of you debbie downers would still be moaning and wanting Hollanfs head on a stick and ***** how hes doing it by luck or others peoples hard work.

Way I see it is that the 'rules' keep changing and the field of play has been leveled and still the Wings are in the hunt.

60 minutes of hockey is all this team needs....I dont have the answer as to how to get it...Players decide how hard and if they want to compete...bot GM's.

Two things I need to point out. One "We could be 15-0 right now". Yes and we could also bey 0-15 right now. That kind of argument doesn't work because the opposite is just as likely.

Two, we're not being debbie downers. We're being REALISTS. It's easy to sit up and say that your favorite team looks good and is just having bad luck It's a lot harder to try and look at the situation objectively. The fact is, Holland's plan the last four years has been try and mimic the 09 success and that we are right there and maybe only a small piece or two a way. Look where that's gotten us. 13 playoff wins in 3 years. That's 3 games a year.

Right now the Wings are suffering from Pistons syndrome. The 08-09 course has run it's course and the rebuild needed to be started a while ago. IF not two off seasons ago then last off season for sure. And Holland hasn't which is a big mistake.

*edit* 4.33 wins per year, not 3. I apparently suck at math.

Edited by CrimsonFlame
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Two things I need to point out. One "We could be 15-0 right now". Yes and we could also bey 0-15 right now. That kind of argument doesn't work because the opposite is just as likely.

Two, we're not being debbie downers. We're being REALISTS. It's easy to sit up and say that your favorite team looks good and is just having bad luck It's a lot harder to try and look at the situation objectively. The fact is, Holland's plan the last four years has been try and mimic the 09 success and that we are right there and maybe only a small piece or two a way. Look where that's gotten us. 13 playoff wins in 3 years. That's 3 games a year.

Right now the Wings are suffering from Pistons syndrome. The 08-09 course has run it's course and the rebuild needed to be started a while ago. IF not two off seasons ago then last off season for sure. And Holland hasn't which is a big mistake.

Your math is off 13 wins in 3 years is 4.33 wins per year, still unacceptable, but I had to correct you :)

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Your math is off 13 wins in 3 years is 4.33 wins per year, still unacceptable, but I had to correct you :)

Lol thanks I was doing that while taking notes in class simultaneously.

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I'm not panicking....

As for the struggling power play, Babcock said, “I thought Samuelsson was impressive on the power play, he really shot the puck, so we'll put him on that first unit and get them shooting and getting it back.''

.... OK. Now I'm panicking.

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If he went chasing the flavor of the month every year like San Jose does you'd be happy. BUT look at San Jose, they have depleated their prospects to the point where their prosepect are LAST in the NHL. But hey, they always seem to land the hot commodity. A hell of a price to pay. Mortgage the future for the flavor of the month.. LOL

We could probably get a top D man for Nyquist, Tartar, Smith, etc.

No thanks.

Exaclty..and the Sharks still haven't and won't win a cup !

I'm not panicking....

As for the struggling power play, Babcock said, “I thought Samuelsson was impressive on the power play, he really shot the puck, so we'll put him on that first unit and get them shooting and getting it back.''

.... OK. Now I'm panicking.

Whats wrong with shooting the puck on the PP? Our PP has been terrible..shooting the puck would be a good start.

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I'm not panicking....

As for the struggling power play, Babcock said, “I thought Samuelsson was impressive on the power play, he really shot the puck, so we'll put him on that first unit and get them shooting and getting it back.''

.... OK. Now I'm panicking.

Do shots against the glass somehow translate to goals? lol I don't mind giving him a couple games, he has been injured and only has played three games so far split between the start of the season and now. Soon he'll be logo hunting again :) and who knows maybe he will accidentally score too :P

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Don't see why people are down on Samuelsson, he's good defensively, and has the same number of points as Cleary in 12 less games. Sammy will be fine if he can stay healthy.

Cleary is a major issue right now, there isn't one positive thing he does for this team on the ice right now.

FlashyG, esteef and DatsyukianDekes like this

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One thing that really bugs me. I don't know if no body has ever noticed but we NEVER EVER have ANYBODY in the slot. Ever. We always have two dmen back at the blue line corners and a forward behind the net. And that's it. The other two forwards are never even on the screen.

Triangle offense only works if someone is actually in the slot to you know shoot the puck at the net.

And I personally hate triangle offense anyway. I'd much rather just crash the net every damn time. That's how you get scoring chances.

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Don't see why people are down on Samuelsson, he's good defensively, and has the same number of points as Cleary in 12 less games. Sammy will be fine if he can stay healthy.

Cleary is a major issue right now, there isn't one positive thing he does for this team on the ice right now.

It's become absolutely mind numbing to even think about cleary anymore, it's nice to have sammy back so I can pick on him instead :P I like the guy, but we'll see what he can do for us

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All of you experts here, please fix our PP...

Serious question.... Go?

It seems the majority feel it can be fixed by coaching...if thats the case, do those same players on PP suck as the majority here states?

Again, not being a smart ass, curious to see the opinions and perspective.

Edited by beachwing

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One thing that really bugs me. I don't know if no body has ever noticed but we NEVER EVER have ANYBODY in the slot. Ever. We always have two dmen back at the blue line corners and a forward behind the net. And that's it. The other two forwards are never even on the screen.

Triangle offense only works if someone is actually in the slot to you know shoot the puck at the net.

And I personally hate triangle offense anyway. I'd much rather just crash the net every damn time. That's how you get scoring chances.

Picture this: 3 wings forwards crash the net. Kronwall or White blast one from the point. Shot blocked (because the D hasn't been getting pucks through the lane) then a 3-on-2 or 2-on-1 heading the other way?

It all comes back to s***ty defense.

In 2008, the Wings were always at the net. They had no sniper then either. The difference was that Lidstrom and Rafalski were two of the best D men in the league at getting pucks on net.

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All of you experts here, please fix our PP...

Serious question.... Go?

It seems the majority feel it can be fixed by coaching...if thats the case, do those same players on PP suck as the majority here states?

Again, not being a smart ass, curious to see the opinions and perspective.

Well removing Cleary would be a great start, get Brunner off the point and put him in the slot, Kronwall and Sammy can work the points and zetterberg or Datsyuk can feed Brunner.

as long as cleary goes down in gametime minutes I'll be happy

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If he went chasing the flavor of the month every year like San Jose does you'd be happy. BUT look at San Jose, they have depleated their prospects to the point where their prosepect are LAST in the NHL. But hey, they always seem to land the hot commodity. A hell of a price to pay. Mortgage the future for the flavor of the month.. LOL

We could probably get a top D man for Nyquist, Tartar, Smith, etc.

No thanks.

You mean the same San Jose team who knocked the Wings out of the playoffs two years straight and are currently beating us in the standings? That team? Unfortunately actual results don't support your "prospects" theory. And what the Sharks are doing has zero bearing on what Kenny ISN'T doing.

esteef

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All of you experts here, please fix our PP...

Serious question.... Go?

It seems the majority feel it can be fixed by coaching...if thats the case, do those same players on PP suck as the majority here states?

Again, not being a smart ass, curious to see the opinions and perspective.

I don't think the problem is the personnel as much as its how they are used and the system they follow. If they are hellbent on using the same system they have been then I'd rather see 2 defenceman on each unit with our scoring forwards spread out better so we don't have all of them playing on unit 1, with Flip stuck with Cleary and a rotating cast of grinders. I'd rather they just roll out the top 2 scoring lines than their current PP lines, they probably wont score any more but it should stop all the shorthanded goals we give up. If they want to keep the same units together than I think they could more effectively use the first unit.

I'll describe what I typically see when our first unit is on the ice.

To get into the zone Kronwall or Brunner will carry the puck to center ice while Datsyuk will sweep behind them, they will drop the puck back to him and he'll skate right through the middle and between their 2 PK forwards, then dump the puck off to either Kronwall or Brunner at the point.

Datsyuk will then set up along the boards on one side with Zetterberg setting up opposite him, while Franzen goes to the front of the net. Kronwall or Brunner will then have 2 options with the puck because generally the PK is right on top of them preventing any sort of a shot. They can either move the puck between themselves or move it down the boards to Datsyuk or Zetterberg. When it gets to the boards the PK takes away the cross ice pass and makes Zetterberg or Datsyuk attempt to either skate the puck to open up another pass, or forces them to move it back to the defence again. This happens over and over again until eventually a bad pass is made or a shot opens up that usually goes wide or is blocked. All too often when the shot misses the Wings don't retrieve it and it ends up being shot down the ice starting the whole process over. Worse still is when the shot gets blocked we have one of our 2 worst defensive players attempting to break up an odd man rush and we all collectively hold our breath hoping to not give up a shorthanded goal.

I think having both Datsyuk and Zetterberg on opposite sides of the rink makes us much easier to defend, why not have them both work the puck on the same side of the ice with Franzen in front. No one defenceman is going to be able to defend both Datsyuk and Zetterberg so chances are if they stick to their box one of them is going to be able to skate right into the slot for a scoring chance. The only options the defence would have is to either collapse a forward down low to help his defender cover the 2, or leave Franzen alone in front. I think most PK's would move a forward down as leaving a man alone in front would be a recipe for disaster. When the forward collapses that leaves either Kronwall or Brunner open to move down for a great one time opportunity with a screen in front of the net. It also leaves our 2 best players down low to retrieve a shot that misses or Franzen in a 1 on 1 in front of the net on a rebound.

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I have been discussing the Wings "problems" for a couple days now with various other hockey people and I've come to several conclusions. Essentially, I believe that the Wings have two types of problems, legitimate ones and illegitimate ones. Illegitimate problems are those stemming from the injury bug basically. Not scoring goals when down, special teams, and an over worked goalie are illegitimate problems. By that I mean they'll be fixed as guys get healthy. Legitimate problems are those that cannot be addressed using the "wait and see" approach. First, I think we need a top pair shutdown defenseman. Kronwall plays better when he's got a reliable, defensively responsible, partner. Plus, while Ericsson is playing good this year, but I don't think anyone can tell me that they wouldn't rather have him as the shutdown guy on the second pair. One top pair shutdown guy would go a long way toward solidifying the defense corps as you'd have Kronwall-Player X, Smith-Ericsson, White/Kindl/Quincey-Lashoff/Huskins/Colaiacovo.

Next legitimate problem (IMO), Babcock needs to find line combos that work and stick with them. I know that this one dovetails with the injuries, but here I'm talking more about identifying deserving players and matching them with complimentary players in order to maximize effectiveness across the line. If Tatar is playing good, then leave him in, but make sure that you put him with guys that compliment his play. Same for the top lines. As I've stated before, You aren't maximizing anyone's game by sticking them with guys with similar skill sets, or asking players to be something they aren't. Don't rest your success on whether or not Valtteri Filppula will somehow decide to start shooting more because he probably won't. Put Flip with a guy who does shoot a lot and you're maximizing his skill set. Essentially, let players play the games that are in their wheelhouse. Remember when Babs put Datsyuk on the wing at the beginning of the season? That's what I"m talking about. Don't do stuff like that.

A healthy roster will fix a lot. The addition of a big minute, shutdown defender (who cares if he can score or not) will fix a lot more. And finally, Babs' coming to terms with the roster he has, and not the one he wishes he had, will do the rest.

We're not in bad shape.

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Red Wings look to eliminate costly mistakes..... - Detroit News

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20130219/SPORTS0103/302190341/Red-Wings-look-eliminate-costly-mistakes?odyssey=tab|topnews|text|FRONTPAGE

Damn! I sure was hoping that this article was about actaully eliminating COSTLY mistakes...like a few contracts! *Cough Cough* Franzine, *Cough* Quincey *Cough Cough*



I have been discussing the Wings "problems" for a couple days now with various other hockey people and I've come to several conclusions. Essentially, I believe that the Wings have two types of problems, legitimate ones and illegitimate ones. Illegitimate problems are those stemming from the injury bug basically. Not scoring goals when down, special teams, and an over worked goalie are illegitimate problems. By that I mean they'll be fixed as guys get healthy. Legitimate problems are those that cannot be addressed using the "wait and see" approach. First, I think we need a top pair shutdown defenseman. Kronwall plays better when he's got a reliable, defensively responsible, partner. Plus, while Ericsson is playing good this year, but I don't think anyone can tell me that they wouldn't rather have him as the shutdown guy on the second pair. One top pair shutdown guy would go a long way toward solidifying the defense corps as you'd have Kronwall-Player X, Smith-Ericsson, White/Kindl/Quincey-Lashoff/Huskins/Colaiacovo.

Next legitimate problem (IMO), Babcock needs to find line combos that work and stick with them. I know that this one dovetails with the injuries, but here I'm talking more about identifying deserving players and matching them with complimentary players in order to maximize effectiveness across the line. If Tatar is playing good, then leave him in, but make sure that you put him with guys that compliment his play. Same for the top lines. As I've stated before, You aren't maximizing anyone's game by sticking them with guys with similar skill sets, or asking players to be something they aren't. Don't rest your success on whether or not Valtteri Filppula will somehow decide to start shooting more because he probably won't. Put Flip with a guy who does shoot a lot and you're maximizing his skill set. Essentially, let players play the games that are in their wheelhouse. Remember when Babs put Datsyuk on the wing at the beginning of the season? That's what I"m talking about. Don't do stuff like that.

A healthy roster will fix a lot. The addition of a big minute, shutdown defender (who cares if he can score or not) will fix a lot more. And finally, Babs' coming to terms with the roster he has, and not the one he wishes he had, will do the rest.

We're not in bad shape.

Well since Holland or Babcock won't address any of these problems you listed (or your solutions) then Yes, yes we are in REAL bad shape...

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