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Going forward with what we have


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#41 PavelValerievichDatsyuk

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 03:40 PM

No more Pity Parties!!! This is the going forward thread. No looking back and grumbling. GO WINGS!!



#42 DetroitRedWings1993

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 06:01 PM

I understand what you're saying and share your concerns.  I too think that Smith has been abysmal on defense this year.  I only commented to say that it's sad how far we've fallen when our options come down to speculating on moving a bad defenseman to forward.  But I guess that's the situation we're in until this summer (at the earliest) and I don't see it changing so I guess I'm just going to have to live with it.  That and wonder how the hell it came to this. 

This is what teams that are saturated with bottom-6 forwards, are too old, are gutless and soft, don't work hard and haven't had a good draft pick in 21 years look like.  It's just how it is.  It got this way because we've lost 3 top-4 defenseman in the last 3 seasons and haven't been able to replace them with, at the very least, something close.  It got this way because, instead of leaving roster spots open for prospects this season, signed Tootoo (although I've loved his play) and Samuelsson.  It got this way because the patchwork defense has mostly failed, as it was destined to, and Howard isn't able to allow 1 goal or fewer every night.  It got this way because our forwards are simply unable to generate offense any longer.

 

This is what we are now.  We're in a rebuild, and this is what that feels like.  It hurts that the glory days are over, but they are.  It's time to let the streak go and start managing in the 21st century.


The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring is rated PG-13 for epic battle sequences.


#43 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 07:47 AM

This is what teams that are saturated with bottom-6 forwards, are too old, are gutless and soft, don't work hard and haven't had a good draft pick in 21 years look like.  It's just how it is.  It got this way because we've lost 3 top-4 defenseman in the last 3 seasons and haven't been able to replace them with, at the very least, something close.  It got this way because, instead of leaving roster spots open for prospects this season, signed Tootoo (although I've loved his play) and Samuelsson.  It got this way because the patchwork defense has mostly failed, as it was destined to, and Howard isn't able to allow 1 goal or fewer every night.  It got this way because our forwards are simply unable to generate offense any longer.

 

This is what we are now.  We're in a rebuild, and this is what that feels like.  It hurts that the glory days are over, but they are.  It's time to let the streak go and start managing in the 21st century.

 The one positive part of losing some great Dmen is that some of our young D get a lot of playing time, and in all situations.  Danny DeKeyser stepped in and has been really good and steady so far.  Kindl is the single most improved player in the NHL this year.  He's looking comfortable and he's shooting and doing it with confidence.  Kronwall has had ups and downs, but he's used to looking around and seeing Lids, Stuart and Rafs.  He's by far the most affected by the departures.  More than even Babcock and Holland, cause Kronwall's on the front lines with a bunch of rookies and at times it shows.

 

As for the signings, Kenny needs to start handing out 1 year deals to guys like Colo and Sammy and even Tuzzi.  Too many guys with the last year of their contracts taking ice time from young, ready prospects like Nyquist, Tatar and Smith last year who could have benefitted greatly from a season with Lids.  Notice last year Smith had 7 pts in 14 games and looked like a future superstar.  This year he's been good, but he's making the rookie mistakes that he didn't last year.


Free darkmanx!

 

"I play hockey, but I am not very good.  Can someone please tell me what it would take to sign with the Wings ? I can use a million or two."  ~ arag


#44 DetroitRedWings1993

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 11:32 AM

 The one positive part of losing some great Dmen is that some of our young D get a lot of playing time, and in all situations.  Danny DeKeyser stepped in and has been really good and steady so far.  Kindl is the single most improved player in the NHL this year.  He's looking comfortable and he's shooting and doing it with confidence.  Kronwall has had ups and downs, but he's used to looking around and seeing Lids, Stuart and Rafs.  He's by far the most affected by the departures.  More than even Babcock and Holland, cause Kronwall's on the front lines with a bunch of rookies and at times it shows.

 

As for the signings, Kenny needs to start handing out 1 year deals to guys like Colo and Sammy and even Tuzzi.  Too many guys with the last year of their contracts taking ice time from young, ready prospects like Nyquist, Tatar and Smith last year who could have benefitted greatly from a season with Lids.  Notice last year Smith had 7 pts in 14 games and looked like a future superstar.  This year he's been good, but he's making the rookie mistakes that he didn't last year.

Totally agree, and you make an interesting point about Kronwall.

 

I have to disagree with one-year deals to vets.  We need to be honest about this youth movement if we really want to install one.  Everyone who's ready should have every opportunity to make the team.  That means that we need less veteran plugs.  We need less of guys like Cleary, Samuelsson, Colaiacovo and Bertuzzi and more guys like Andersson, Tatar, Nyquist, Smith, Lashoff and DeKeyser.


The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring is rated PG-13 for epic battle sequences.


#45 Kira

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 12:35 PM

Let's face it.  We all knew this day would come along...that we would have to readjust to things.  If it puts us down for a bit so be it.  It's gotta happen sometime, and maybe now is the time.  It's not the fault of any one person - s*** happens.  It's best to ride it out and see where we wind up.


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#46 kipwinger

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 12:46 PM

Based on what we have right now, I think our best case scenario looks like...

 

Bert-Dats-Franzen

Filppula-Helm-Zetterberg

Brunner-Andersson-Nyquist/Tatar

Tootoo-Abby-Miller

 

Kronwall-Ericsson

Kindl-Quincey

Smith-Dekeyser/Lashoff


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#47 Z Winged Dangler

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 01:32 PM

Totally agree, and you make an interesting point about Kronwall.

 

I have to disagree with one-year deals to vets.  We need to be honest about this youth movement if we really want to install one.  Everyone who's ready should have every opportunity to make the team.  That means that we need less veteran plugs.  We need less of guys like Cleary, Samuelsson, Colaiacovo and Bertuzzi and more guys like Andersson, Tatar, Nyquist, Smith, Lashoff and DeKeyser.

 That's why I was saying to give the vets 1 year contracts so they expire each year and Holland can re-evaluate who he wants on the team and which young guys are ready to come up.  Meaning that I wish Holland had signed Colo, Sammy, Bert and those type guys to 1 year when he gave them all 2.  I think we're agreeing on the same point but starting at different points.


Free darkmanx!

 

"I play hockey, but I am not very good.  Can someone please tell me what it would take to sign with the Wings ? I can use a million or two."  ~ arag


#48 kipwinger

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 02:14 PM

 That's why I was saying to give the vets 1 year contracts so they expire each year and Holland can re-evaluate who he wants on the team and which young guys are ready to come up.  Meaning that I wish Holland had signed Colo, Sammy, Bert and those type guys to 1 year when he gave them all 2.  I think we're agreeing on the same point but starting at different points.

 

Agreed, offer them one year deals and if they're not satisfied let them walk.  There are worse tragedies, and guys like that aren't all that hard to replace.  I can't understand Holland, he makes lowball offers for Pominville, Jagr, and Bouwmeester at the deadline and won't budge and inch.  All of those guys are harder to find alternatives for than our old guys.  Then when teams don't meet his price he's out the door.  But then he'll turn around and give generous offers to guys who are much easier to replace without batting an eye. 


GMRwings:  "Well, in other civilized countries, 16 years old isn't considered underage.  For instance, I believe the age of consent is 16 in Canada.  There's some US states where it's 16 as well.  

 

Get off the high horse.  Not like she was 10."

 

"Some girls are 17 even though they look 25."

 

 


#49 Ally

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 02:36 PM

I feel like there are 15 of these threads with a point by point explanation of what people want with each individual player. Can't they somehow be combined in a "what I would do if I were Holland" thread?
As far as this particular one goes, I don't hate every idea but any plan that suggests trading Datsyuk is thumbs down for me. Yes, I WOULD rather lose him for nothing. I want that man to be a career Wing.

 
"Everything he does is exciting to watch.” -Holmstrom describes Datsyuk


#50 Carman

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 12:41 PM

Oh I agree.

But I'm not just basing it off his NHL play, he was the same way in the AHL and college. He's always been a risk taker.

His value is higher as a defenseman no doubt. But if he's getting sat and gets passed up by deykeyser, lashoff, kindl etc. rather than sitting him I'd like to see what he could do offensively. You can't say you aren't curious what he would look like with his size, speed and puck skills playing in the top 6:)

It way too early to even talk about it, but I do see similarities between burns and smith that's what caught my attention.


Hmm I was onto something after all. Haha

I really think this is a good move, smith has too much natural talent to give up on. I have a good feeling about this forward experiment.





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