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Dirty Dangle

Abdelkader suspended 2 games for hit on Lydman

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This will not surprise me at all.

If I were Babs, I would sit Abby for the series regardless of what the decision is from Shanny. Putting Abby back out there would just give Anaheim a righteous "reason" to take out Jimmy or Pasha... like, "the Wings DESERVED this!" Tell me this couldn't happen with tools like Perry leading the pack?

This is the part of this whole scenario that bothers me the most, honestly. I called it in the GDT right after it happened that they were going to start spouting "possible concussion" nonsense as soon as they could get in front of a microphone in order to infulence discipline. Sure as s***, immediately postgame we have Boudreau yammering about "oh, he's got a headache, not gonna practice tomorrow." I've got a headache this morning to, should the bottle of whiskey get supplementary discipline? I cannot stand the PUNK ASS BABY s***. Manipulating the system by crying injury after every hard hit, legal or not, to influence discipline is bulls*** and I hate that the league is heading in this direction. It's bad enough that legitimate injury, like in the Eller case, determines discipline on a clean hit, but when you flop on the ice for an hour after a hit to not only try to draw a penalty, but set the stage for a later suspension? :nono:

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You guys need to watch the entire replay and not just a clip. There was no "charging" Abby was gliding into the hit, the principle point of contact was elbow to shoulder and the momentum of the hit followed thru to the head... again, head was not principle point of contact. Abby left his feet with the hit, much like Kronwall did 100% of the time (when he used to hit) and 95% of his hits are deemed clean. For those of you who think there wasn't a call on the ice, watch the video, when the camera follows the play down the ice, the ref in the Ducks zone, WAY in the ducks zone, has his arm up with the call. The guy 2 feet away watched the entire play transpire and watched Lydman fall to the ice and never had ANY intent of calling a penalty, because it was not a penalty, was not a charge, was not a principle hit to the head where the head is targeted...

I said it in the GDT, if this hit gets a suspension the there is something seriously wrong with the NHL. He already served enough unwarranted penalty time. 5:00 and a game is suspension enough for a completely LEGAL hit and blown call by the ref 200 feet away. Also like I said, if you are looking for a play that has more intent on injuring someone you have to look at the Souray hit on Abby in game two and even Perry's careless use of his skate in game one. Those two plays there were way more severe when it comes to careless hits and intent to injury than Abby's hit last night...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XpBIFsbcy6Q

I took a screenshot at 57 seconds at what is the point of contact of the hit:

PointofContact3_zps26e71158.jpg

Two things are clear, #1 he is leaving his feet at the time of contact, not because of the contact, and #2 that initial contact is not shoulder to shoulder, or elbow to shoulder, but shoulder to head.

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Actually its not, if its decided that the person left their feet on their own, not as part of the momentum of the hit itself, its a charge. From all the angles I have seen it appears that Abdelkader left his feet on his own in order to make the hit harder, which has been called by the NHL a charge in the past. Also, the angles I have seen show that the head was hit, if not first in isolation, it was still hit first along with Lydman's shoulder. The point is, had Abdelkader STAYED on his feet and not left them, this would have been a 100% legal hit, shoulder to shoulder, and there would have been no 5 mins penalty,and no discussion of suspension, but, this is par for the course for Abdelkader, he takes stupid penalties in the playoffs.

As for Kronwall, I thought he was ejected in 2009 for a high hit.

42.1 Charging - A minor or major penalty shall be imposed on a player who skates or jumps into, or charges an opponent in any manner.

Abby made contact with his left skate still on the ice he did not jump INTO the hit.

Kronwall may have been ejected but he was never disciplined by the league.

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Boudreau is not stupid, if he thinks he can get Abby removed from the line up and influence the outcome of the series, then Lyman will be "unavailable" to play, regardless. Lyman isn't a key loss to the *ucks.

I hate to think they would use this as a way to manipulate the system, and hope that Lyman isn't hurt, needless to say -- but the way the game is played now... it's gamesmanship. I have my suspicions. :glare:

Edited by puckloo39

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Guest The Axe   
Guest The Axe

Abdelkader has got to bury his shoulder down into the body of the player. Hitting his head accidentally is not acceptable. Its the right call. Its dangerous, and a suspension is warranted. I want our guys to get protection from these kind of plays as well.

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Abby made contact with his left skate still on the ice he did not jump INTO the hit.

Kronwall may have been ejected but he was never disciplined by the league.

ANY MANNER. At point of contact Abdelkader was leaving his feet, which would be him in a manner jumping into the hit, IE a charge.

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I took a screenshot at 57 seconds at what is the point of contact of the hit:

PointofContact3_zps26e71158.jpg

Two things are clear, #1 he is leaving his feet at the time of contact, not because of the contact, and #2 that initial contact is not shoulder to shoulder, or elbow to shoulder, but shoulder to head.

1. That isn't the point of contact, its several frames after.

2. While his right skate is airborne, his left skate is still firmly planted on the ice.

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1. That isn't the point of contact, its several frames after.

2. While his right skate is airborne, his left skate is still firmly planted on the ice.

Its not several frames after, point of contact in that play was at 57 seconds, check the video, at 56 there is still separation. And he is in the act of leaving his feet, that is not induced by the contact of the hit, but Abs doing it on his own.

Show me any shot from that replay that doesn't show: the point of contact as shoulder to chin, and that Abdelkader's leaving his feet did not start within microseconds of initial contact, and is a result of his contact, not of his own intention.

Edited by Shaman464

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Guest The Axe   
Guest The Axe

I took a screenshot at 57 seconds at what is the point of contact of the hit:

PointofContact3_zps26e71158.jpg

Two things are clear, #1 he is leaving his feet at the time of contact, not because of the contact, and #2 that initial contact is not shoulder to shoulder, or elbow to shoulder, but shoulder to head.

You're correct. But its important to remember that this is clearly accidental. Abdelkader is not a malicious Matt Cooke kind of player. He just fouled up this check is all.

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This is the part of this whole scenario that bothers me the most, honestly. I called it in the GDT right after it happened that they were going to start spouting "possible concussion" nonsense as soon as they could get in front of a microphone in order to infulence discipline. Sure as s***, immediately postgame we have Boudreau yammering about "oh, he's got a headache, not gonna practice tomorrow." I've got a headache this morning to, should the bottle of whiskey get supplementary discipline? I cannot stand the PUNK ASS BABY s***. Manipulating the system by crying injury after every hard hit, legal or not, to influence discipline is bulls*** and I hate that the league is heading in this direction. It's bad enough that legitimate injury, like in the Eller case, determines discipline on a clean hit, but when you flop on the ice for an hour after a hit to not only try to draw a penalty, but set the stage for a later suspension? :nono:

I totally agree with the politics. The NHL needs more players like Jakub Vorachek. When Kronwall destroyed him, after the game he said that he got hit clean and should have had his head up. Most of the Flyers agreed with him. Was the hit devastating? Yes. Did the result look like Vorachek was seriously injured, yes. But, its a hockey hit. Vorachek said it was a good hit, there was no penalty and so suspension. As a matter of fact this hit was worse than Abby's...still no penalty, no suspension and Vorachek being a stand up guy, admitted it was more his own fault and didn't whine a cry to the media and complain about a headache and try to get someone suspended....what is the popular term nowadays? You Stay Classy "Anaheim" Well it's time to stay classy NHL. No suspension OR fine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8qZUaR9GnU

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I took a screenshot at 57 seconds at what is the point of contact of the hit:

PointofContact3_zps26e71158.jpg

Two things are clear, #1 he is leaving his feet at the time of contact, not because of the contact, and #2 that initial contact is not shoulder to shoulder, or elbow to shoulder, but shoulder to head.

abdelkader.jpg

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You're correct. But its important to remember that this is clearly accidental. Abdelkader is not a malicious Matt Cooke kind of player. He just fouled up this check is all.

I agree there isn't any intent to hit him in the head, the issue is that a hit to the head suspension doesn't need intent for a suspension to be given.

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I took a screenshot at 57 seconds at what is the point of contact of the hit:

PointofContact3_zps26e71158.jpg

Two things are clear, #1 he is leaving his feet at the time of contact, not because of the contact, and #2 that initial contact is not shoulder to shoulder, or elbow to shoulder, but shoulder to head.

We just see two different things...point of contact was shoulder. Left his feet with the hit, not before, which means he didn't leap into him. You have your opinion, and I respect it, but I disagree with it. Plus your circled a foot off the ice, where the other foot? On the ice...no jump.

Edited by LeftWinger

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abdelkader.jpg

The offending foot is obstructed and you know it. I showed the RIGHT foot leaving the ice has he was jumping off his LEFT foot into Lydman. PS thats one foot, not 2 feet that you are pointing two. Also, thats about 2-3 frames before the hit was initiated, go forward to when the hit starts and Abs is jumping.

Edited by Shaman464

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The officiating and front office of the NHL really need to get their act together when they call penalties and issue suspensions. That said, Abby made a real bone headed play and he deserves to get suspended (in fairness with all the other hits just like it). I hate it, I hate admitting it, but that was a major screw up on his part.

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ANY MANNER. At point of contact Abdelkader was leaving his feet, which would be him in a manner jumping into the hit, IE a charge.

Skating into a guy on one foot isn't considered jumping into a hit, no matter how much you try to stretch the definition of a jump.

screengrabcopy.jpg

This image is as close to the moment of impact as you can find and as you can see they are shoulder to shoulder and Abby's skates are on the ice.

Edited by FlashyG

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Skating into a guy on one foot isn't considered jumping into a hit, no matter how much you try to stretch the definition of a jump.

screengrabcopy.jpg

This image is as close to the moment of impact as you can find and as you can see they are shoulder to shoulder and Abby's skates are on the ice.

There's no contact at that point, you take it a frame further and you have my image, shoulder to chin, contact, and his feet starting to leave the ice.

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I agree there isn't any intent to hit him in the head, the issue is that a hit to the head suspension doesn't need intent for a suspension to be given.

You need to brush up on the NHL rulebook. Intent is absolutely needed for a hit to the head penalty. Notice the bolded portion from the NHL's official rules.

48.1 Illegal Check to the Head – A hit resulting in contact with an opponent's head where the head is targeted and the principal point of contact is not permitted. However, in determining whether such a hit should have been permitted, the circumstances of the hit, including whether the opponent put himself in a vulnerable position immediately prior to or simultaneously with the hit or the head contact on an otherwise legal body check was avoidable, can be considered.

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The offending foot is obstructed and you know it. I showed the RIGHT foot leaving the ice has he was jumping off his LEFT foot into Lydman. PS thats one foot, not 2 feet that you are pointing two. Also, thats about 2-3 frames before the hit was initiated, go forward to when the hit starts and Abs is jumping.

Sorry, foot on the ice. and I was gonna use a different angle and show you, but Flashy G beat me to it. So as you can see from their screenshot both feet are on the ice. Flashy's last post has it down. (Technically it's two posts ago now lol)

Edited by Mitchmac33

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The offending foot is obstructed and you know it. I showed the RIGHT foot leaving the ice has he was jumping off his LEFT foot into Lydman. PS thats one foot, not 2 feet that you are pointing two. Also, thats about 2-3 frames before the hit was initiated, go forward to when the hit starts and Abs is jumping.

Huh? It's not jumping if one foot is on the ice.

By the way, Lydman is not currently at the Ducks' practice.

Edited by Zetts

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There's no contact at that point, you take it a frame further and you have my image, shoulder to chin, contact, and his feet starting to leave the ice.

Actually there is contact between their shoulders, Lydman turns slightly at that point which is why he took contact to his head.

What that image does show conclusively to me is that Abby was targeting his shoulder NOT his head.

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You need to brush up on the NHL rulebook. Intent is absolutely needed for a hit to the head penalty. Notice the bolded portion from the NHL's official rules.

Per NHL.com 2011 on Rule 48 clarification:

Players will now face a minor penalty for any hit that involves primary contact to the head and shots that target an opponent's head and/or make it the principal point of contact.

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We can debate this all day and that is what makes this forum so awesome. I just hope that Shanahan sees it the way most of us do as no jumping into the player and no principle contact to the head. It all happens so fast that anyone could form either opinion and could point out tons of reasons to justify it. But I still have to go with the ref closest to the play. Abby stopped skating before the hit, left his feet WITH the hit, principle point of contact was shoulder then momentum into the head. The ref watched the entire play from start to finish. He deemed no penalty at all, but the ref 200 feet away said a 5:00 charge and a game misconduct. I could see if the guy right there said 2:00 for charging, but he said 0:00. I just hope he expresses his opinion to Shanahan when asked about it. I believe there should be no suspension, but would not be surprised at all, if the NHL does suspend him and then of course Lydman will be in game 4.

Edited by LeftWinger

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I don't see a suspension coming. Looking very closely and adjusting for camera angles, he stayed on the ice until after contact, and he didn't target the head.

I can see how people could see it either way, but when you look very closely and adjust, it just isn't suspendable.

Maybe Bertuzzi replaces him and shows him how to finish Datsyuk's plays if he does get suspended. That'd be nice.

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