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Dirty Dangle

Abdelkader suspended 2 games for hit on Lydman

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By the way, Lydman is not currently at the Ducks' practice.

:scared: Shocked, I tell you!!

Was just coming here to post this. Apparently he's there, but won't take the ice. Has "migraine and sore neck." According to the Ducks' radio color analyst, Lydman "not likely to play anytime soon."

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Edited by BottleOfSmoke
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Per NHL.com 2011 on Rule 48 clarification:

You've already conceded the head wasn't targeted, I've already shown that the head wasn't the primary point of contact, and Abby wasn't assessed a minor or major penalty for hitting to the head.

There was a ref only a couple feet away looking straight at the hit and he didn't think it was a hit to the head or he would have put his arm up. The penalty was only called after Lydman didn't get up and even then it looked to be a linesman that claimed it was a charge.

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My issue is this: In recent years in all sports the head seems to have become fair game, there have been a lot studies that show such hits can cause permanent damage, even if there is little or no symptom presentation at the time of the injury. The head MUST be made off-limits, and even accidental contact should be punished to keep borderline plays out of the game. A player should do the mental calculus before a hit to make sure there is no way they hit the head, and Abdelkader could have gone an inch lower to make sure his hit was perfectly shoulder to shoulder. He didn't, he sacrificed safety trying to make a big play, even though its clear it wasn't his intent to hit the head. And that's the exact issue I have, if it comes between making a huge play and jeopardizing someone else, everyone should be trained from a young age to let up and adjust point of contact. He didn't and the Wings are suffering now because of it.

PS if you look at most head shot threads on this forum I say the same thing as I am now, I will not be a hypocrite because its a Wings player involved.

Edited by Shaman464
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Principal point of contact is not necessarily the same as initial point of contact. If the shoulder got only glancing blow and the head got hit square on then head might as well be the principal point of contact.

The point is I got no idea how they are going to interpret the rules in this particular case. It would be nice to have a set of rules, which only allows for a single interpretation but that might be asking too much out of English (or any other language).

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Huh? It's not jumping if one foot is on the ice.

By the way, Lydman is not currently at the Ducks' practice.

If Lydman isn't going to play in game 4 I don't expect Abby will either, even though I don't think he deserves a game.

It seems when it comes to discipline in the NHL the extent of the injury determines the length of the suspension.

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:scared: Shocked, I tell you!!

Was just coming here to post this. Apparently he's there, but won't take the ice. Has "migraine and sore neck." According to the Ducks' radio color analyst, Lydman "not likely to play anytime soon."

I have a headache and sore neck, too. I'm not going to be playing either. BooBoo won't let him play, since the outcome of the decision from the NHL DC depends on pretty much on Lyman being maimed by the hit.

Again, coach is not stupid. It's like when someone is trying to get an insurance settlement for "whiplash" or some other less than obvious injury -- you don't go out dancing or to lift weights at the gym while waiting to get your reward.

Edited by puckloo39
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My issue is this: In recent years in all sports the head seems to have become fair game, there have been a lot studies that show such hits can cause permanent damage, even if there is little or no symptom presentation at the time of the injury. The head MUST be made off-limits, and even accidental contact should be punished to keep borderline plays out of the game. A player should do the mental calculus before a hit to make sure there is no way they hit the head, and Abdelkader could have gone an inch lower to make sure his hit was perfectly shoulder to shoulder. He didn't, he sacrificed safety trying to make a big play, even though its clear it wasn't his intent to hit the head. And that's the exact issue I have, if it comes between making a huge play and jeopardizing someone else, everyone should be trained from a young age to let up and adjust point of contact. He didn't and the Wings are suffering now because of it.

PS if you look at most head shot threads on this forum I say the same thing as I am now, I will not be a hypocrite because its a Wings player involved.

Not trying to sound mean, but have you ever played before? There isn't exactly time to always calculate where you need to hit people and how to adjust due to other people's movements. There are times when a hit to the head is unavoidable, short of not making the hit at all.

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My issue is this: In recent years in all sports the head seems to have become fair game, there have been a lot studies that show such hits can cause permanent damage, even if there is little or no symptom presentation at the time of the injury. The head MUST be made off-limits, and even accidental contact should be punished to keep borderline plays out of the game. A player should do the mental calculus before a hit to make sure there is no way they hit the head, and Abdelkader could have gone an inch lower to make sure his hit was perfectly shoulder to shoulder. He didn't, he sacrificed safety trying to make a big play, even though its clear it wasn't his intent to hit the head. And that's the exact issue I have, if it comes between making a huge play and jeopardizing someone else, everyone should be trained from a young age to let up and adjust point of contact. He didn't and the Wings are suffering now because of it.

PS if you look at most head shot threads on this forum I say the same thing as I am now, I will not be a hypocrite because its a Wings player involved.

I don't think you're a hypocrite at all, although you did imply I was one when you called me a homer and said my opinion would be different if it were a Wing.

We just have a difference of opinion when it comes to head shots. I can see your point as far as the lasting damage caused by them, but these guys are making millions of dollars to play an extremely rough sport and they all know the risks. I also don't know how a player can do "mental calculus" as you put it in a split second taking into account the improbable movement of his target. Some of the onus is on the person being hit to take the hit to the body and to not put his head in danger with his own movements.

I think there are ways to minimize the damage caused by hits while still allowing the game to maintain a physical edge. A good start would be to get rid of the hard plastic in shoulder and elbow pads.

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Not trying to sound mean, but have you ever played before? There isn't exactly time to always calculate where you need to hit people and how to adjust due to other people's movements. There are times when a hit to the head is unavoidable, short of not making the hit at all.

And this just might be the NHL's intention. To condition players so that they do not hit if contact to the head is a possibility.

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Not trying to sound mean, but have you ever played before? There isn't exactly time to always calculate where you need to hit people and how to adjust due to other people's movements. There are times when a hit to the head is unavoidable, short of not making the hit at all.

I have played, I played from 5 till I enlisted at 17, stopped playing and could never pick it back up because of a broken shoulder I suffered in the service. So yes I played. That being said, I can look at a guy and determine if I hit him X way the head could be involved but if I hit him in Y way the head is less likely to be involved. Had Abdelkader tried not to make a HUGE highlight reel hit, and squared his shoulder better his head would have never been involved. The other issue I have is Abdelkader is famous for his s***, trying to make a hit, and it becoming a penalty that wins the game for the other team, look at the two times the Wings got bounced by the Sharks, both times, Abdelkader was in the box in crucial games and the Wings lost because of it.

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And this just might be the NHL's intention. To condition players so that they do not hit if contact to the head is a possibility.

So what would the NHL have Kronwall do instead of hitting Voracek? Try to poke check it away? Or just back up and allow them to break out and try to stop it later? In order to take all hits that have to potential to hit the head they will have to take all hitting out.

I have played, I played from 5 till I enlisted at 17, stopped playing and could never pick it back up because of a broken shoulder I suffered in the service. So yes I played. That being said, I can look at a guy and determine if I hit him X way the head could be involved but if I hit him in Y way the head is less likely to be involved. Had Abdelkader tried not to make a HUGE highlight reel hit, and squared his shoulder better his head would have never been involved. The other issue I have is Abdelkader is famous for his s***, trying to make a hit, and it becoming a penalty that wins the game for the other team, look at the two times the Wings got bounced by the Sharks, both times, Abdelkader was in the box in crucial games and the Wings lost because of it.

I don't disagree with you, but you should know that your X and Y will never remain constant. When two people are moving there will never be just two options.

Edit: things change in the blink of an eye, so it's impossible to line up a hit with 100% certainty of the outcome.

Edited by Mitchmac33
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IMHO, the only hit to the head that should EVER be deemed targeting is an elbow to the head. 99% of the time if you lead with your elbow and nail the guy in the side of the head, it was on purpose. Anytime a shoulder is thrown into and towards the body and it just so happens that the head was hit, that should not be a penalty, just an unfortunate accident as a result of a hard, fast Hockey play...99% of the time when the shoulder leads the hit and the head is hit, it is not on purpose and the head was not targeted. If you are leading with your shoulder you intend to hit the player with a body check, if you lead with your elbow, you are looking to injure the player...

That is just my opinion when trying to read the intent of a play...

Edited by LeftWinger
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Hipchecks almost gone, fighting almost gone, clean but BIG "tough" hits on the way out, enforcers almost gone, dynasties gone

What a joke this league has become it's like the NHL front office and captain NO HIT LEAGUE are trying a bit too hard to turn this into a very boring sport such as soccer, football.

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I wouldn't be surprised if they start handing out suspensions based on if the affected team wins or loses... Ducks got a PP goal on the major AND won game, no suspension.

Gryba team won the game, suspension.

Since they already hand out penalties after the fact based on how hurt the hit player is, might as well give out punishment based on the outcome of the game in question.

League has ZERO credibility.

EDIT - and my non homer opinion is, Abby's hit was worse than hit on Eller which got a suspension.

Edited by Rhah

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@reallisa: Selanne, weighing his words on the hit: "Let's put it this way: I think that kind of hits are totally unnecessary."

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@reallisa: Selanne, weighing his words on the hit: "Let's put it this way: I think that kind of hits are totally unnecessary."

This from a guy that punches players in the back of the head.

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And then this:

@reallisa: More Selanne:"It's interesting to see what Shanny's gonna do. He played here too. I think everybody is following close. It's a tough job too

LOL already playing the preemptive "Shanny played here" card...

Edited by BottleOfSmoke
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IMHO, the only hit to the head that should EVER be deemed targeting is an elbow to the head. 99% of the time if you lead with your elbow and nail the guy in the side of the head, it was on purpose. Anytime a shoulder is thrown into and towards the body and it just so happens that the head was hit, that should not be a penalty, just an unfortunate accident as a result of a hard, fast Hockey play...99% of the time when the shoulder leads the hit and the head is hit, it is not on purpose and the head was not targeted. If you are leading with your shoulder you intend to hit the player with a body check, if you lead with your elbow, you are looking to injure the player...

That is just my opinion when trying to read the intent of a play...

I'm partially in agreement with you, but want to clarify something = 2 hands on the stick and the shoulder hits barely ever turn into elbow hits. That's what bugs me about this Abdelkader hit. Like Kronwall, he's launching himself UP and laterally while removing a hand from his stick. You take responsibility for your flailing limbs and skates leaving the ice when you do this. Its reckless. If he keeps both hands on his stick and puts the front part of his shoulder forward into Lydman in a lateral motion only, he cannot rub/glance off of Lydman. Lydman would be knockec on his ass and might fall into the boards a bit, but the chances of his head being OK would be far greater. Abdelkader deserved the penalty. Warning is good enough for aftermath, as the injury was unintentional, clearly.

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Because big hits are worth permanently injuring someone in a way that has been statistically shown to shorten athletes lives. I love seeing big hits Jolly, but come on, any hits, on purpose or accident to the head should NOT be part of ANY sport. While I would argue that the hit by Abby wasn't dirty insofar as there was 0 intent to go after the head, there was still head contact. Even RUGBY a game that you are ENCOURAGED to clock people, if you hit someone in the HEAD you are punished.

From someone who played rugby all through high school, that is a common misconception. Why do you think we dont wear any pads?

The only legal hit involves wrapping a guy up to take him to the ground. Even a shoulder to shoulder hit is not legal.

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retire Selam-ME

It's also called "Grumpy Old Man's Syndrome"

And then this:

@reallisa: More Selanne:"It's interesting to see what Shanny's gonna do. He played here too. I think everybody is following close. It's a tough job too

LOL already playing the preemptive "Shanny played here" card...

lol it's called STFU Salami. You're just showing that you're that NHL player that overstayed his welcome.

Edited by Hockeymom1960

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I'm calling it now Shanaban suspends him 2 games and the Wings go apes***.... Anyone remember last year???? Weber with a classic turnbuckle move on Hank.... Don't tell us your trying to protect the players especially when you let that go!!!

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