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Official Franzen VS Hossa


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#41 RedLightGoesOn

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 05:54 PM

Hossa, Parise, it doesn't matter. Those guys are good, but they want the money. Chicago payed dearly to get Hossa, and let go of some really good players that they miss. I don't think buying players like that wins you a Cup. Detroit is all about players playing Detroit's system and style.... I have doubts about Parise fitting in well here. Hossa was a beast for us during the regular season and no doubt helped us get into the playoffs with home ice advantages. However, come playoffs it is a different story and him showing up in 3 games (He scored in 3 game 4s, IIRC) in our 09 Cup run doesn't spell that large of a difference from Franzen IMO.

 

Ovechkin is/was a threat (playoff choker), but I would not want him on the Wings.


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#42 TheDetroitRedWings

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 06:00 PM

Funny thing is at the time I completely agreed with Holland's decision to keep Franzen instead of Hossa. But right now looking back on it I would def rather have Hossa. I love the Mule and all, but Hossa's game is at a slightly higher level and he's definitely more consistent. Hopefully Franzen will have a huge series and change some ppl's minds. But as of right this moment I have to say Hossa > Franzen


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#43 Crymson

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 08:27 PM

 

Technically ever since he joined there they HAVE iced a better team,

 

Not true. The Wings won the division in 2010-2011 and made it to the 2nd round. The Blackhawks backed into the playoffs on the last day of the season, making it only because the Stars failed to win their last game. The Blackhawks then lost out in the first round against the Canucks. By no means were the Blackhawks the better team in that season. The two teams in 2011-2012 were roughly equal overall.

 

that being said I really do not care that we did not sign him. Everyone saying he is way more consistent is a liar, he is quite streaky as well, and guess what, for the fact checkers, 31 points in 40 games this year, and franzen had 31 points in 41 games.

 

Yep, Hossa is indeed a streaky player. Blackhawks fans have lodged that complaint about him regularly. His only consistent season with the Blackhawks thus far came in '11-'12.

 

hossa was a +16 on a team that scored way more goals and had a +53 goal differential, while Franzen was a +13 on a team with 31 goals less scored, and 13 goals more against, with a +9 goal differential.

 

Anyone who can refer to him as one dimensional (see hudler) is dreaming, and anyone who claims hossa to be 10X the player, is lying.

 

Very well put. I think that the mean comparisons made between the two spring, in the main, from a combination of hindsight and grass-is-greener thinking.



I will just put it out there that I did not start nor suggest this thread. I just said in the other thread that if we beat the Hawks or if Franzen outscores Hossa win or lose, I will never complain about "The Choice" again.  I may still complain about Franzen or wish for a trade, but the comparison and choice I wanted will never be mentioned.

 

That's fair. Kudos.

 

That being said, again if the Hawks buyout Hossa I am praying that he becomes a Red Wing for the next 8 years and we can have both of these guys! Sniper problem soved...debate over! :D

 

It's unlikely to happen. Even if the Blackhawks do use an amnesty buyout on Hossa, he must then pass through a waiver system. The Wings will be quite a ways down the list, and I have no doubt that the likes of Colorado or Florida (Dale Tallon, anyone?) would be happy to take on his contract.



#44 SouthernWingsFan

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 08:52 PM

Hindsight is 20-20.

 

At the time when Hossa played heis season here, I bet a lot of people were going to side with Franzen given his tear in the playoffs those two seasons in 2008 and 2009, and Hossa only producing sparingly in certain games in 2009.  Even with Hossa taking a bit of a backseat role in the goal-scoring/point production department when the Hawks won it all in 2010.

 

With their entire bodies of work, it's not even close, Hossa.

 

That being said however, true Franzen can be inconsistent at times, but I still think over the recent years when he started to become more of a goal scorer, at least in the postseason the only year he barely made a dent was last season.  The season before he had the sprained ankle which really inhibited him, so going to give him some slack for that in 2010.  2007 when the Wings got eliminated in the conference Finals he started to show some offensive potential and 2008 and 2009 he went on a tear obviously.  And, so far he's been involved in this playoff year very well.


Edited by SouthernWingsFan, 14 May 2013 - 08:53 PM.


#45 Franzine

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 09:05 PM

Foreshadowing:

 

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#46 ogreslayer

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Posted 14 May 2013 - 09:05 PM

It's unlikely to happen. Even if the Blackhawks do use an amnesty buyout on Hossa, he must then pass through a waiver system. The Wings will be quite a ways down the list, and I have no doubt that the likes of Colorado or Florida (Dale Tallon, anyone?) would be happy to take on his contract.

 

Pretty sure that's incorrect.  Players need to go through waivers before teams can buy them out.  Once the buy out is complete, the player immediately becomes a UFA.


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#47 Doc Holliday

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 01:28 AM

This discussion is stupid. We have Franzen and the Hawks have Hossa and you can't make hypothetical arguments when we don't know how good Hossa would make the Wings and how Franzen would play if we let him go.

 

 

Holland has made more egregious errors in my opinion than the Hossa/Franzen choice. Personally, not even getting into contact with Semin and perpetuating the idea that veterans are safe here (loyalty is one thing, but complete amnesty is another) is bigger than the choice between a guy who can score 40 and a guy who can score 30-35.

 

Besides, it has been 3+ years since Hossa has been off the team. We can't dwell on it forever, right?


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#48 DeGraa55

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 03:33 AM

This discussion is stupid. We have Franzen and the Hawks have Hossa and you can't make hypothetical arguments when we don't know how good Hossa would make the Wings and how Franzen would play if we let him go.
 
 
Holland has made more egregious errors in my opinion than the Hossa/Franzen choice. Personally, not even getting into contact with Semin and perpetuating the idea that veterans are safe here (loyalty is one thing, but complete amnesty is another) is bigger than the choice between a guy who can score 40 and a guy who can score 30-35.
 
Besides, it has been 3+ years since Hossa has been off the team. We can't dwell on it forever, right?



I agree idk why its still talked about. And I also think not going after semin was a mistake. But to me the biggest mistake was Hollands deals and extensions. I think the amount of time given go franzen z and kronwall was too long. But at least with kronwall and z even as they get older and decline they bring so much more to the team. Where as franzen declines his numbers will drop...and he sucks at everything else as is. The other thing was giving two years to Colo Sammy and monster. I understand the need for veteran depth cause we had a lot if unknowns. But now with two years it cripples us this off season. Yes we can use a buyout but even then we got more than two guys that need to be bought out.

#49 Crymson

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 03:53 AM

I agree idk why its still talked about. And I also think not going after semin was a mistake.

 

Only the Hurricanes were willing to take a chance on him. That is telling.

 


But to me the biggest mistake was Hollands deals and extensions. I think the amount of time given go franzen z and kronwall was too long. But at least with kronwall and z even as they get older and decline they bring so much more to the team. Where as franzen declines his numbers will drop...and he sucks at everything else as is.

 

All-star captains and first-pairing defensemen are difficult to come by. As for Franzen... well, if you think he sucks at everything besides scoring, then I'm not sure you pay much attention to him when he's on the ice.

 

The other thing was giving two years to Colo Sammy and monster. I understand the need for veteran depth cause we had a lot if unknowns. But now with two years it cripples us this off season. Yes we can use a buyout but even then we got more than two guys that need to be bought out.

 

Given that Holland will have $12m with which to work this summer, I fail to see how the presence of those contracts "cripples" the team.



#50 LeftWinger

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 06:09 AM

 

Given that Holland will have $12m with which to work this summer, I fail to see how the presence of those contracts "cripples" the team.

 

This is true, as long as he doesn't give Val more than 1/3 of it... also if he wants to get a sniper (which the whole world knows we need) he will have to cut salary as well....(trade, buyout, bury)


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#51 ogreslayer

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 06:26 AM

 

Only the Hurricanes were willing to take a chance on him. That is telling.

 

 

 

All-star captains and first-pairing defensemen are difficult to come by. As for Franzen... well, if you think he sucks at everything besides scoring, then I'm not sure you pay much attention to him when he's on the ice.

 

 

 

 

Given that Holland will have $12m with which to work this summer, I fail to see how the presence of those contracts "cripples" the team.

 

Call it $17.5-18.775m once he buys out Sammy & Cola or Sammy & Quincey.


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#52 LeftWinger

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 07:56 AM

 

Pretty sure that's incorrect.  Players need to go through waivers before teams can buy them out.  Once the buy out is complete, the player immediately becomes a UFA.

 

That is good news! No one would dare pick up that lengthy contract, eh? He passes through waivers, becomes a UFA and signs with us on the cheap! Then we trade Fil to Dallas for Cole and then sign Pascal Dupuis...

 

Then I awake and wonder why I am not a GM, because all of my trades make so much sense! :D /sarcasm/


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#53 GoalieManPat

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 10:38 AM

 

He is great defensively, and even when he "floats" he still is creating space out there and drawing players to him. No player will be like "duh, franzen is floating today no one cover him..." despite what some people here think, even when he is floating he still is a very real threat to score.

 

Actually they wouldn't need to. When hes floating hes just hanging around the boards away from the goal. 



#54 Valas19

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 11:06 AM

Hossa, Parise, it doesn't matter. Those guys are good, but they want the money. Chicago payed dearly to get Hossa, and let go of some really good players that they miss. I don't think buying players like that wins you a Cup.

 

Hmmmm....

 

hossa-cup.jpg


Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

#55 Doc Holliday

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 11:22 AM

 

Only the Hurricanes were willing to take a chance on him. That is telling.

My issue is it was a one year deal with cap space we weren't using anyway. I completely understand the possibility that Datsyuk didn't even want him here and might have told Holland so, but it still grinds my gears a bit considering he did play well for the Canes (even if the team didn't improve due to their acquisitions).


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#56 Euro_Twins

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 11:56 AM

 

Pretty sure that's incorrect.  Players need to go through waivers before teams can buy them out.  Once the buy out is complete, the player immediately becomes a UFA.

 

Plus why would the hawks first resort to buying him out? If I was the GM I would attempt a trade, for a player like Hossa a team like Columbus might be willing to give up something pretty decent. Even if he does get bought out I don't understand why some people want hossa here for 8 years, he is 34, that means he would be here till 42, and likely wouldn't be effective offensively from 38-42



 

Actually they wouldn't need to. When hes floating hes just hanging around the boards away from the goal. 

 

and thats when he walks in and scores... 


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#57 LeftWinger

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 02:23 PM

Meh, Ok 5 years at $4M per....I will take it!


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#58 ogreslayer

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 02:48 PM

 

Plus why would the hawks first resort to buying him out? If I was the GM I would attempt a trade, for a player like Hossa a team like Columbus might be willing to give up something pretty decent. Even if he does get bought out I don't understand why some people want hossa here for 8 years, he is 34, that means he would be here till 42, and likely wouldn't be effective offensively from 38-42



 

and thats when he walks in and scores... 

 

A couple of things working against a trade.  The team Hossa is traded to would be subjected to cap recapture for any remaining years where his salary was greater than his cap hit & the Blackhawks would still face recapture for the years Hossa was on their roster.  Granted they would reduce their exposure with a trade but it wouldn't eliminate it.  The only way to eliminate carrying cap consequences for Hossa is that he plays for the entire length of the contract, traded or not, or they use an amnesty buy out on him which is the only way to truly guarantee it.

 

I would think the fact that his cap recapture follows him in a trade would end up reducing the return the Blackhwaks would get for him.


Edited by ogreslayer, 15 May 2013 - 02:51 PM.

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#59 The Axe

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 03:21 PM

Hossa is an allstar. Franzen is not. There is no comparison between these 2.

#60 GoalieManPat

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 06:30 PM

 

and thats when he walks in and scores... 

 

If you can find more than 1 example of him taking it from the boards and walking in and scoring this season Ill eat my words. 







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