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Guest Crymson

Dreger: Filppula looking for $5.5m/season over at least 7 years

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Wouldn't necessarily say nothing yet. Kenny can always flip his rights to another team for a draft pick.

or for another players rights. Like Weiss for example (if they're that interested in him)

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Filpulla is asking for too much.

But unless Holland has plans to truly upgrade his top six (read: Horton, Clarkson) you have to think that Detroit with Filpulla is better than Detroit with Samuelson.

That's the only frustrating thing.

Sammy @ 3M

Tootoo @ 1.9M

Quincey @ 3.5M

These are all bad contracts $-wise. OK term-wise.

I guess what I'm saying is that I think 4M for Filpulla is fair (but pushing it a little). I also think 3M for Brunner is perhaps fair.

It kills me to think that both of these guys could walk over a 0.5 - 1.5M difference in asking vs offering when Kenny has overpaid for at least three players that the team doesn't really need (not that I have any huge issue with Tootoo, Sammy, or Quincey).

krsmith17 likes this

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We would agree that $5.5 mil AAV is too much for Filppula, but in terms of Filppula's right to be a free agent or demand whatever he wants, I think you're off-base.

You're saying Filppula owes it to the Wings to accept whatever low-ball offer we throw his way? That a player in the prime of his career needs to "prove" himself by taking one-year deals until he either (a) Has an outlier season where he blows up and then gets overpaid; or (b) Gets his head run into the boards and sees a serious diminution in his value and future earning potential?

Um, no. If I'm Filppula and another team offers me $10 million more (over the life of a multi-year deal) AND a higher profile role on the top lines and PP unit...and all I have to do is live somewhere else and wear a different color sweater? Yeah, I would at least consider that. Filppula is no longer the "property" of the Detroit Red Wings come July 5th - there was nothing stopping his from extending him previously if Holland wanted to lock him up on a multi-year deal.

yup. Take what I said, and make it seem like I said something completely different. I said filppula should be taken a 1-2 year deal, because no team worth their jerseys are going to sign flip for 5.5/year for 7 years after one of his worst career years. The only teams that will aren't teams that are playoff bound anyway. Filppula has every right to go to free agency, but he should decide whether he wants to be on a cup contender or be the next federov

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That's cool that you say something like that when you have no idea what an NHL player goes through. You never saw what happened to him or felt whatever pain he felt. Never question an NHL player's toughness.

He had a sore pectoral muscle twice last season. And nowhere did i question his toughness did i? I've played hockey my whole life and have had a lot of nasty injuries so i understand full well. But that doesn't mean you need to fly or the handle on me like you're some higher power of hockey injuries. Now i know why there's so few regulars around here these days.

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Filppula is without a doubt, one of our best forwards. I agree with what Z and D for C and rick zombo said 100%. I don't think he is worth 5mil per year, but to say he isn't worth 4mil is completely under valuing him, which is what many people here seem to do with our players. Some people only look at the stats sheet, and to say he is invisible on the ice when he is not scoring is beyong ridiculous. He is one of the hardest working guys on the team, and he makes things happen, plain and simple. Like was said above, he can gain the zone on the power-play, he can set up plays, although everyone would love to see him score more or use his body more that isn't his game. I want to keep him, whether we do or not, who knows.

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The guy is one of the best players on the team. Very underrated, drafted and developed in house. If he won't take 3.5-4 million, then gonna have to let him go. Letting Hudler go was a HUGE mistake, and it will be a HUGE mistake to let Flipulla go too. The Red Wings waste so much cap space on people who don't even play, they can afford to overpay a player by a million here or there.

He's not coming back...not at his asking price

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I have to disagree. Flip is a semi-talented playmaker, but that's it. He literally kills offense most of the time because he tries to pass the puck on a breakaway. He never developed past his 2nd-3rd line tweener status. He was serviceable, but he wasn't good. His talent isn't great enough to contribute on the top two lines consistently, and he's not creative enough to be a difference maker.

I'm not going to say he's terrible, but he doesn't really add anything that can't be replaced.

esteef likes this

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That's cool that you say something like that when you have no idea what an NHL player goes through. You never saw what happened to him or felt whatever pain he felt. Never question an NHL player's toughness.

I'm pretty sure Sammy is made of glass. Maybe that glass is tough, but it still breaks easily.

Maybe flip is worth $4M with this season's cap, but the cap is going DOWN. That's going to effect UFA values, unless you're an incapable GM and don't think ahead.

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So Flip failed in Detroit because there was too much pressure on him?

He failed because he's a worse version of everything we already have

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That's cool that you say something like that when you have no idea what an NHL player goes through. You never saw what happened to him or felt whatever pain he felt. Never question an NHL player's toughness.

Oh, please...

Many if not most of us have endured a lot of the same types of injuries (or worse) that these guys have at some point in our lives and have dealt with the same pain. These guys are pampered athletes that make millions to play a game, and they get the very best medical attention that money can buy.

Edited by sleepwalker
Z Winged Dangler likes this

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Filppula is not worth $5m, plain and simple. I don't think he's even worth $4m. You say Filppula contributes a lot; I disagree. I think he is far from an impact player, and he's invisible when he isn't producing. He fit best as a third-line center, and he wants to be paid like a first-line center.

So you're just refusing to address any of the arguments I make, and then just rehash what everyone already thinks anyway?

I don't want to pay him even $5m right now either because we can't know what player is going to show up. But if he is scoring 60-70 points, yeah, he's worth $5m. You can't tell me he's not. Filppula was 12th in even strength scoring in 11-12 (ahead of Datsyuk and Zetterberg) despite playing far less at even strength than anyone who scored as much as him at even strength and is one of the better defensive forwards in the league. If you told a GMs a player was going to have those kind of stats next year, he'd get 6 or 7 million. This is why I'd like to see him get a 2 year contract for around what me makes now to see if he can play at that level. If not, sign him for cheap or let him walk.

because he tries to pass the puck on a breakaway.

I'll paypal you $20 right now if you can find a video of one time he was on a breakaway and passed the puck.

And 66 points is a lot of points for someone who literally kills offense.

He failed because he's a worse version of everything we already have

So should our team only be Datsyuk and Zetterberg because everyone else is just a worse version of them (a hockey player)?

Edited by Z and D for the C
krsmith17 likes this

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Maybe Jim Nill wants him..

I think Jim Nill already screwed up by firing last year's Stars' coach. Waaay too quick a move. Good luck, Ruff!

So I guess the team will look something like this

Franzen - Datsyuk - Brunner

Nyquist - Zetterberg - Tatar

Cleary - Helm - Sammy

Abdelkader - Emmerton - Bertuzzi

Miller- Eaves - Tootoo

Kronwall - Ericsson

Kindl - Quincey

Smith - DeKeyser

Lashoff

?

...tsk tsk.... :tounge:

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Fil scored 197 pts during his 5 yr/15 million contract. That's $76,000/point.

Dats scored 342 @ 5yr/33.5 mil. That's $98,000/pt.

Franzen scored 222 @ 5yr/21.650 mil. That's $97,000/pt

Cleary is $83,000/pt.

Horton is $100,000/pt

Crosby was $117,000/pt

Gomez was $204,000/pt (see how important this stat is)

Hudler was $57,000/pt

We pay them to score and fil has more than filled his duty if money is the question. He was our cheapest scorer. We let go of huds when he was the best bang for the buck.

Fil plays D and is fast and can create matchup problems. His demand of $5mil is fair to the standards. If we paid him 5mil/yr at 197 pts he would be $126,000/pt. To get a fairl contract with him it'll have to be $3.8@5 yrs which would make him a $98,000/pt player. However, we can't afford it with the influx of new, cheaper talent so sadly we'll be letting go another better bang for the buck player again.

No matter how anyone spins it that he's small, passess to cleary on a break away, doesn't give good enough massages, does not fight etc etc, one thing is certain. Fil has the qualities of a top player. He passess well, backchecks, and scores enough to be effective to the money he is paid.

Z and D for the C likes this

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I think it's mostly about perception and expectations. Darren Helm doesn't produce all that much and has been injured frequently. Yet he is considered an untouchable, tough, valuable, etc. Samuelsson misses the season due to injuries, despite a fairly long successful NHL career, and suddenly hes a china doll who can't play. Filppula is perceived to have more scoring ability by fans so is considered a failure and not worth the money. If you really look at it, there aren't two more underacheivers than Datsyuk and Zetterberg. With the talent and ice time these two get, shouldn't they really be scoring more?

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No matter how anyone spins it that he's small, passess to cleary on a break away, doesn't give good enough massages, does not fight etc etc, one thing is certain. Fil has the qualities of a top player. He passess well, backchecks, and scores enough to be effective to the money he is paid.

He's average. He doesn't create matchup problems. I've never heard a coach worry about who is going to faceoff against Filppula. He is good defensively, but we can replace that. He is not a dominant player. He can't lead a scoring line.

He was fine while he was cheap, but at that price we can find a hungrier, more reliable forward.

And I dont think Helm is injure frequently. I could be wrong, but hasn't he only been hurt twice? It's just that this injury is a long one. Compared with Sammy who gets hurt pectorals and slips on banana peels.

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I think it's mostly about perception and expectations. Darren Helm doesn't produce all that much and has been injured frequently. Yet he is considered an untouchable, tough, valuable, etc. Samuelsson misses the season due to injuries, despite a fairly long successful NHL career, and suddenly hes a china doll who can't play. Filppula is perceived to have more scoring ability by fans so is considered a failure and not worth the money. If you really look at it, there aren't two more underacheivers than Datsyuk and Zetterberg. With the talent and ice time these two get, shouldn't they really be scoring more?

Fil was paid to backcheck and create plays. He's not paid to do what helm does.

Regardless what he's asking is too much FOR US but not for what he's meant to do. Fil is not a goal scorer much like Darren Mccarty was not a play maker. Both had roles and fulfilled them quite successfully.

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Fil was paid to backcheck and create plays. He's not paid to do what helm does.

Regardless what he's asking is too much FOR US but not for what he's meant to do. Fil is not a goal scorer much like Darren Mccarty was not a play maker. Both had roles and fulfilled them quite successfully.

Fil also had what is looking like a fluke year (11-12) and is asking to be paid like it was a normal season for him. His skill set and where he would sit on the depth chart puts him at about 3.5 million given how much the cap has gone down and his expected production. As for what his role is, I am hard pressed to say I know what it is, hes an okay top 6 winger, a sub-standard top 6 center, and an above average #3 center. His defense is above average, but not exceptional, his ability to hit/use his body is poor, his skating is average, his playmaking is above average, but again, not exceptional, and hes too pass first for him to be called anything but a blow average goal scorer. He is, and always was, completely replaceable.

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backchecks, and scores enough to be effective to the money he is paid.

Effective to the money he WAS paid, and that's the key.

I am hard pressed to say I know what it is, hes an okay top 6 winger, a sub-standard top 6 center, and an above average #3 center. His defense is above average, but not exceptional, his ability to hit/use his body is poor, his skating is average, his playmaking is above average, but again, not exceptional, and hes too pass first for him to be called anything but a blow average goal scorer.

Say what now? Flip is an exceptional skater. A couple of years ago Babcock called him the best skater on the team.

He's been a good player for us. His skating, his playmaking, his defensive play. He was huge in the '08 run, shutting down Malkin in the finals. But now, via the vagaries of the CBA he's about to be way overpaid and its time to say farewell. Lets not berate him for not being Pavel Zetterberg, like this place is so fond of doing to anyone who doesn't play at a HOF level. He was a decent middle 6 forward at a good price, be happy with that.

Jesusberg and Frozen-Man like this

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Effective to the money he WAS paid, and that's the key.

Say what now? Flip is an exceptional skater. A couple of years ago Babcock called him the best skater on the team.

He's been a good player for us. His skating, his playmaking, his defensive play. He was huge in the '08 run, shutting down Malkin in the finals. But now, via the vagaries of the CBA he's about to be way overpaid and its time to say farewell. Lets not berate him for not being Pavel Zetterberg, like this place is so fond of doing to anyone who doesn't play at a HOF level. He was a decent middle 6 forward at a good price, be happy with that.

wait what? He is one of the weakest, physically, skaters on the team. He gets knocked on his ass basically every shift. And he was okay, but, he like Crymson pointed out, was invisible a lot this year, and now he wants 5.5 million? He sure thinks hes Pavel Zetterberg.

Edited by Shaman464

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I'm pretty sure Sammy is made of glass. Maybe that glass is tough, but it still breaks easily.

"Wow, glass? Thanks for the kind words!"

mikael-cotton-samuelsson_zps460f93b9.jpg

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Fil was paid to backcheck and create plays. He's not paid to do what helm does.

Regardless what he's asking is too much FOR US but not for what he's meant to do. Fil is not a goal scorer much like Darren Mccarty was not a play maker. Both had roles and fulfilled them quite successfully.

That is the problem moving forward, he was good for what he WAS paid but now he is asking to be paid like a goal scorer even though he isn't one.

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I hope all this is true and Flip doesn't come back. Good riddance.

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his skating is average

Yeah, he's one of the best skaters in the league, let alone on our own team.

He's average. He doesn't create matchup problems. I've never heard a coach worry about who is going to faceoff against Filppula. He is good defensively, but we can replace that. He is not a dominant player. He can't lead a scoring line.

He was fine while he was cheap, but at that price we can find a hungrier, more reliable forward.

And I dont think Helm is injure frequently. I could be wrong, but hasn't he only been hurt twice? It's just that this injury is a long one. Compared with Sammy who gets hurt pectorals and slips on banana peels.

How many points does 66 points count for when it's Filppula who scored them? Does Filppula's 23 goals have less game winning ability than Zetterberg's 22 goals that season or Datsyuk's 19? Filppula scored more goals than both of our two best forwards, but no one is saying that Pav and Z aren't good enough goal scorers. I'll hold my breathe for the answers to these questions.

Edited by haroldsnepsts

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wait what? He is one of the weakest, physically, skaters on the team. He gets knocked on his ass basically every shift. And he was okay, but, he like Crymson pointed out, was invisible a lot this year, and now he wants 5.5 million? He sure thinks hes Pavel Zetterberg.

Being strong on your skates does not = being a good skater. Bert is strong on his skates and rarely gets knocked down, does that mean he's a good skater despite having the speed and agility of an oil tanker?

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