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Guest The Axe

kronner a #1?

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By the definition that some have here of what constitutes a #1 defenseman, there are substantially less #1 defensemen than there are teams in the NHL.

This. Too many people define a #1 D as "all-star-Norris trophy candidate-hall of famer." As someone else said, those are Franchise Defencemen and no-one here would argue Kronwall is one of those.

Plus we've been spoiled rotten and given insane expectations of what to expect from a #1D by 20 years of Lidstrom.

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If he's not top ten...who all is better than him? Go!

Ill say Doughty, Subban, Chara, Weber, Suter, Karlsson...

I don't want to make a rank order list because I'm feeling pretty lazy, but I'd add Pietrangelo to your list and probably remove Karlsson. His offensive is obviously WAY better, but as shaky as Kronwall may seem at times, imagine if he were only 175 lbs and much weaker.

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We should have expected this season to be kind of a clusterf***. Lidstrom retired, they lost Stuart, then a third of the guys they expected to play on the top 3 lines all went down early. That's a lot of shuffling and guys playing new roles, with no camp and only a short season to get used to the changes. Kronwall had to adjust to being Nik instead of just Nik Jr., Ericsson needed to adjust to being #2, and they were working Smith in. There wasn't a single defenseman who had a partner they'd spent any significant time with before this year. It usually takes time to build chemistry and get your communication down. If you add Zetterberg having to adjust to being the captain and working 3 rookie forwards in too, that's about 3 normal offseasons worth of changes they had to make with no camp.

Throwing Kronwall under the bus for "playing worse" as a #1 than he did as the #2 guy is kind of harsh. I expect him, and everyone else, to be much better next season after a full training camp and half a season of the changes.

Edited by DickieDunn
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Kronner is what he is, an excellent second pairing defenseman but without a franchise defender not a top pairing guy.

This is nothing against him, it is just the truth and I really hope he will return to his more kronwalling instead of trying to run the powerplay, I think the shutdown role is better suited for him.

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Tough to say coming out of a lockout.

Lockout years, IMO, are not good years to judge players.

They basically all had their training camps with different players than they played with.

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I don't get the joke. Two players you bolded won the last two Norris trophies.

That's because the Norris has become nothing more than a scoring race for Dmen, no matter if they can even play the defensive side of the game. They just load up their points on the PP and win the Norris. Suter should have won it this year over the other 2 candidates. The Norris is supposed to be awarded to the "best all-around Dman" and that's where the trophy is losing a lot of credibility along with numerous others.

As for guys "as good" or "better" than Kronwall:

Pietrangelo, Doughty, Chara, Weber, Suter, Boychuk, Keith, Yandle, Ekman-Larsson, Shattenkirk and McDonough. There is a list of guys who can play both sides of the ice. Kronwall is basically equivalent to Keith, Yandle and Shattenkirk as an exact play style.

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Kronner is what he is, an excellent second pairing defenseman but without a franchise defender not a top pairing guy.

This is nothing against him, it is just the truth and I really hope he will return to his more kronwalling instead of trying to run the powerplay, I think the shutdown role is better suited for him.

Can you name 60 better defensemen in the NHL?

I do think Kronner is easily a top-30 defenseman, and IMO that makes him a #1. I wouldn't say that he is an elite or franchise defenseman, but he is a #1.

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I think Kronner is a #2, but I thought he played ok last year as a #1. Perhaps he will be better adjusted to the big guns of the opponents this year and will keep more pucks out of the net.

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I think Kronner is a #2, but I thought he played ok last year as a #1. Perhaps he will be better adjusted to the big guns of the opponents this year and will keep more pucks out of the net.

Yes Kronner as much as we love him. He IS a #2 d-man playing on our team as a #1 d-man.

Nothing wrong with that tbh. Would love him to step it up this year big time but us being in a new "conference" and all.

I don't know. New changes against new opponents aren't always instant. It goes both ways yes.

Our team along with Kronner will be challenged big time again this year no doubt.

haroldsnepsts and frankgrimes like this

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Kronner is what he is, an excellent second pairing defenseman but without a franchise defender not a top pairing guy.

This is nothing against him, it is just the truth and I really hope he will return to his more kronwalling instead of trying to run the powerplay, I think the shutdown role is better suited for him.

Can you name 60 better defensemen in the NHL?

I do think Kronner is easily a top-30 defenseman, and IMO that makes him a #1. I wouldn't say that he is an elite or franchise defenseman, but he is a #1.

I would have a hard time naming 60 defensemen to be honest, I don't follow all the teams but here is a list of guys that are for sure better:

Chara, Letang, Weber, Suter, Keith, Seabrook, Pietrangelo, Phaneuf, Karlson, Staal, Doughty, Shattenkirk (younger + cheaper)

the expectations for a number 1 defenseman are obviously high and this already excludes franchise guys like Lidström (hope his son will fill in for him).

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I would have a hard time naming 60 defensemen to be honest, I don't follow all the teams but here is a list of guys that are for sure better:

Chara, Letang, Weber, Suter, Keith, Seabrook, Pietrangelo, Phaneuf, Karlson, Staal, Doughty, Shattenkirk (younger + cheaper)

the expectations for a number 1 defenseman are obviously high and this already excludes franchise guys like Lidström (hope his son will fill in for him).

Letang is terrible in his own end. If he, Phaneuf, Shattenkirk, and probably a couple of the other guys were Wings we'd have a bunch of people complaining about them, too. Kronwall is a solid #1 d, with a few guys who are better and a few more right around the same level.

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I know you like Girardi a lot; but by the accounts of many Rangers fans, he did not at all have a good season.

And?

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I would have a hard time naming 60 defensemen to be honest, I don't follow all the teams but here is a list of guys that are for sure better: Chara, Letang, Weber, Suter, Keith, Seabrook, Pietrangelo, Phaneuf, Karlson, Staal, Doughty, Shattenkirk (younger + cheaper) the expectations for a number 1 defenseman are obviously high and this already excludes franchise guys like Lidström (hope his son will fill in for him).

Letang is a #1 defenseman in the offensive zone, and a #6 in his own zone; Seabrook has his terrible periods; Phaneuf is a bonehead who is regularly bailed out by his defense partner; Staal has a history of concussions, and his vision may never return to normal; Doughty is perpetually overrated and isn't even the #1 defenseman on his team; and Shattenkirk is poor in his own end.

In any event, if you're going to call Kronwall a 2nd-pairing defenseman, then you ought to be able to find 60 guys who are better than he is. It's that simple.

Edited by Crymson

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On a team that finished top 5 in goals against he was by far the best dman on the team. He was one of the few returning guys on that bllue line and stabiliized it quite a bit. He finished top 10 in Norris voting this season and plays both ends of the ice.

Hes a number 1 dman and pretty easily top 20. Anyone who calls guys like Letang, Phaneuf (lol), Shattenkirk and even Staal are wrong in their evaluation. If those guys played on the wings you would see just as many mistakes or more. Its a case of the grass is always greener, the wings dont have a franchise dman but they have a solid number 1 guy. If they could find a number 2 to play with him he would look much better. If Kronwall is a number 2 D on a team that team would have one of the best defensive units in hockey guaranteed

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Sad state of affairs for our D when the king of give aways is our #1. He has gotten better I think he would be fine with a true #1 D man

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Kronner is capable of being in a good 1-2 pairing but with him he needs a really good shut down partner. He still needs somebody to bail him out when he gets caught out of position and allows him to jump up into the play or to go after some hits. To me Detroit still needs to find him a partner.

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On a team that finished top 5 in goals against he was by far the best dman on the team. He was one of the few returning guys on that bllue line and stabiliized it quite a bit. He finished top 10 in Norris voting this season and plays both ends of the ice.

Hes a number 1 dman and pretty easily top 20. Anyone who calls guys like Letang, Phaneuf (lol), Shattenkirk and even Staal are wrong in their evaluation. If those guys played on the wings you would see just as many mistakes or more. Its a case of the grass is always greener, the wings dont have a franchise dman but they have a solid number 1 guy. If they could find a number 2 to play with him he would look much better. If Kronwall is a number 2 D on a team that team would have one of the best defensive units in hockey guaranteed[/quot

e]

I think we finished that high mainly because of our great defensive play of our forwards and our young D-men improved greatly

I kind of think Kronwall seems like a #2 D man, but frankly after having Lidstrom as the #1 for so long, it's hard for me to judge.

Lidstrom gave a very warped sense of what a #1 D-man looks like (as in, superhuman).

Yup your right on maybe he should head up the 2nd line

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Kronwall is absolutely a legit number 1 defenseman. I think LGW has a bit of a high bar when defining what a number one defensmen is, considering half this board has only ever experienced Lidstrom up until now.

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You mean he didn't score 70+, win the Norris in a landslide and kick Hossa in the nuts?

Trade him. Not even worth the material they use to make his jersey.

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i hated everything about him beginning of the season, he stepped it up at the end. hes our number 1. hes capable. i cant think of many other dmen that can play a 2 way game like him

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I kind of think Kronwall seems like a #2 D man, but frankly after having Lidstrom as the #1 for so long, it's hard for me to judge.

Lidstrom gave a very warped sense of what a #1 D-man looks like (as in, superhuman).

Lidstrom was a defensive kingpin. Now we have Kronner as our #1 with a new mentality. The boys don't have the luxury of looking down the bench to see Lids. Kronwall had his ups and downs last season, but ultimately improved greatly throughout the year and the Wings adopted a "defense by committee" philosophy. As a result, we saw Kronwall struggle a lot at first and then everyone stepped up and took a lot of pressure off him. Ericsson showed us he's the real deal for a shutdown Dman. Kindl earned a spot in the top 4 and silenced us all as fans that were ready to let him walk. Smith had some growing pains, but had flashes of brilliance and showed he's not intimidated by forechecks, he stands them up. DeKeyser stepped in and looked like a seasoned vet, Lashoff was a capable defensive Dman, and Quincey improved a lot over the season and was really good in the playoffs. All in all, Kronwall doesn't need to be a big time Dman, we just need 6 guys that play well together and keep them together. The Kings D corps isn't even as good as ours and they won the Cup 2 years ago.

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