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Weiss out until "at least after Christmas"



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#1 DatsyukToZetterberg

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 11:02 AM

I know he's produced next to nothing, but this is still bad news.

My faith in him has started to erode, honestly. I should probably reserve said erosion for later on in the contract, but he's another guy I've spent a lot of time and energy defending (Howard...*sigh*...being the other).

Anyways, this only increases the urgency for Helm to return healthy and ready to pick up where he left off. That's a long shot, however.



#2 Hockeytown0001

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 11:05 AM

What you said. 


"All done? Five bucks." - Pavel Datsyuk after an interview
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#3 LAWings

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 11:19 AM

Weiss is starting to look like the Gomez to Montreal deal...anyone remember that?  $7.5 million a year for one goal?

 

http://www.thestar.c..._islanders.html

 

I really hope this is the mother of career slumps and he bounces back, but in the game against Florida he looked so upset, flustered, angry...I thought he might even cry a little. 

 

With injuries mounting, and our veteran core not producing, this is where we need to see more of the kids coming up and playing...and not Luke Glendening, he produces less then Weiss.



#4 GoWings1905

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 11:23 AM

As much as Weiss has struggled, he isn't going to improve by not playing. Hopefully he can fully heal and contribute upon his return. I don't want to make excuses for Weiss, but he has looked slower to me than his days in Florida. Speed makes a huge difference to a player's game. 

 

The Red Wings depth at center on paper is probably the strongest asset of the forward unit. Between Weiss struggling and the injuries to Z and Helm, it's a mess up the middle right now. 


 
 
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#5 Crymson

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 11:39 AM

This guy has been a !@#$ing disaster.



#6 puckloo39

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 11:41 AM

Could have kept Flip.  So sad.  I wish Weiss no ill, but hopefully he will come back energized and remember what he's supposed to do out there.


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#7 wingslionstigers

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 12:05 PM

Funny how everyone's a fan of Filppula now. If only we could have a player with that much talent and a rock solid all around game. Tried explaining this to you guys for years now.  Now we got Weiss, hope you guys are happy.



#8 GMRwings1983

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 12:14 PM

Anyone know what my boy Ladislav Kohn has been up to lately?  


Funny how everyone's a fan of Filppula now. If only we could have a player with that much talent and a rock solid all around game. Tried explaining this to you guys for years now.  Now we got Weiss, hope you guys are happy.

 

I didn't want either player.  Filppula was bad last year, which is why they didn't bring him back. 

 

I didn't want Weiss because he was another small, left-handed centerman in his 30's, and coming off some injuries and a bad season.  Upon reading this last sentence I wrote, I understand exactly why Holland got him.   :sleepy:    


Edited by GMRwings1983, 14 December 2013 - 12:16 PM.

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#9 wingslionstigers

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 12:19 PM

 

I didn't want either player.  Filppula was bad last year, which is why they didn't bring him back.  It's one of those hindsight is 20/20 moves.

Lol that's not why they didn't bring him back get your facts straight. He chose not to come back to Detroit. Filppula wasn't bad last year or any year, he makes a difference in every game he plays in unlike Weiss. Filppula was always noticeable in the way Z or Datsyuk is noticeable. Filppula makes your team better and harder to play against each and every night. Why do you think Yzerman went after him? You think Yzerman doesn't know hockey. He took him over Lecalvier.

Filppula could hang on to the puck and carry a lines play, break entry clean over blue line, keep the puck in the other teams zone, won faceoffs, and was great on the defensive side. You guys always expected to have a second line center and second line power play to score 80 points per season... Doesn't happen unless your loaded like the Sharks. Crosby and Malkin are the only other one and two centers who do, they both play on first power play unit all season long.


Edited by wingslionstigers, 14 December 2013 - 12:23 PM.


#10 GMRwings1983

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 12:27 PM

Lol that's not why they didn't bring him back get your facts straight. He chose not to come back to Detroit. Filppula wasn't bad last year or any year, he makes a difference in every game he plays in unlike Weiss. Filppula was always noticeable in the way Z or Datsyuk is noticeable. Filppula makes your team better and harder to play against each and every night. Why do you think Yzerman went after him? You think Yzerman doesn't know hockey. He took him over Lecalvier.

Filppula could hang on to the puck and carry a lines play, break entry clean over blue line, keep the puck in the other teams zone, won faceoffs, and was great on the defensive side. You guys always expected to have a second line center and second line power play to score 80 points per season... Doesn't happen unless your loaded like the Sharks. Crosby and Malkin are the only other one and two centers who do, they both play on first power play unit all season long.

 

I agree with the bottom part, but those sentences I bolded could only have been written by Filppula himself.  


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#11 wingslionstigers

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 12:39 PM

 

I agree with the bottom part, but those sentences I bolded could only have been written by Filppula himself.

I would be willing to consider your input if you could explain some details. What did Filppula fail to provide to for this team that made him a bad player? Points? He had 17 in in 41 which is on par to what he done his whole career aside from one season. Hes about a point every other game player. If you gave him constant first unit power play he would have finished most seasons with around 60 points. We have Z and Datsyuk, those are our point per game players. Not many teams have more than two of those guys, and if they do they wont beable to hold on to all of the players for more than a couple seasons.



#12 GMRwings1983

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 12:47 PM

I would be willing to consider your input if you could explain some details. What did Filppula fail to provide to for this team that made him a bad player? Points? He had 17 in in 41 which is on par to what he done his whole career aside from one season. Hes about a point every other game player. If you gave him constant first unit power play he would have finished most seasons with around 60 points. We have Z and Datsyuk, those are our point per game players. Not many teams have more than two of those guys, and if they do they wont beable to hold on to all of the players for more than a couple seasons.

 

You said he was noticeable the same way as Datsyuk or Zetterberg, and that he made the team harder to play against every night.  Neither statement is true. There were too many games, especially last season, where he looked completely invisible.  Not as bad as Weiss has this year, but still invisible nonetheless. Too easy to knock off pucks. I never thought of him as a guy that brought it ever game.  

 

And he's not in the same league as Datsyuk or Zetterberg, although I doubt that's what you meant with your statement.  Perhaps you could clarify what you meant.  

 

And he didn't run Lecavalier out of town.  Vinny had better numbers last year than Flip and is the franchise's best ever player.  You really think Filppula runs a guy like that out of town?  I suppose Johan Franzen ran Shanahan out of town back in 2006? 


Edited by GMRwings1983, 14 December 2013 - 12:48 PM.

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#13 Nev

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 12:52 PM


I really hope this is the mother of career slumps and he bounces back, but in the game against Florida he looked so upset, flustered, angry...I thought he might even cry a little. 

 

With injuries mounting, and our veteran core not producing, this is where we need to see more of the kids coming up and playing...and not Luke Glendening, he produces less then Weiss.

 

 

 

 

Say what now?  Please tell me how Z, Dats, Franzen, Alfie and Kronner are "not producing"?  Those guys are not the problem.  Injuries, the 4th line, an out of form Howard, Quincey, the shoot out - they are the problem.  And despite all that, we're still hanging in there.

 

As for Weiss looking frustrated - maybe because he's been playing injured and his body can't perform like how he wants it to?


Edited by Nev, 14 December 2013 - 12:54 PM.

"If I can be totally honest, it's not a lot of guys you get impressed by. Actually, it's no one else but him. From the bench, to see what move he makes -- you're like, 'I wish I could do that.' Sometimes you sit on the bench and just think, 'wow,' and you look over to the other bench and they sit there and shake their heads, too. He has great, great skills. I'm probably not going to play with another player who has the kind of skills he has." Mikael Samuelsson on Pavel Datsyuk

#14 Dabura

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 01:04 PM

 

You said he was noticeable the same way as Datsyuk or Zetterberg, and that he made the team harder to play against every night.  Neither statement is true. There were too many games, especially last season, where he looked completely invisible.  Not as bad as Weiss has this year, but still invisible nonetheless. Too easy to knock off pucks. I never thought of him as a guy that brought it ever game.  

 

And he's not in the same league as Datsyuk or Zetterberg, although I doubt that's what you meant with your statement.  Perhaps you could clarify what you meant.  

 

And he didn't run Lecavalier out of town.  Vinny had better numbers last year than Flip and is the franchise's best ever player.  You really think Filppula runs a guy like that out of town?  I suppose Johan Franzen ran Shanahan out of town back in 2006? 

 

Valtteri Filppula was the heart and soul of this Wings team. He was being groomed for the captaincy. He is a lock for the Hall of Fame.

 

And we kicked him out the door.

 

He was all like, "But I wanna stay!" And we were all like, "Sorry, Flip, your four consecutive 40-goal seasons, and the one where you scored 70, do not impress us. We are going with a career AHLer in Stephen Weiss. No one's ever heard of him, and he has a terrible attitude, but his nickname was 'Weisserman' back in juniors. Get it? Like 'Yzerman,' but it's 'Weisserman.' Cuz that's his name. lawlz"


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#15 GoWings1905

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 01:06 PM

Anyone know what my boy Ladislav Kohn has been up to lately?  


 

I didn't want either player.  Filppula was bad last year, which is why they didn't bring him back. 

 

I didn't want Weiss because he was another small, left-handed centerman in his 30's, and coming off some injuries and a bad season.  Upon reading this last sentence I wrote, I understand exactly why Holland got him.   :sleepy:    

 

Agreed. I don't want Filppula back just because Weiss has struggled. Filppula was terrible last season and had more than enough time to establish himself as a consistent offensive threat. 

 

I think, in theory, the Weiss signing made some sense because the organization wanted to use 40 and 13 together again and had nobody internally to fill the second line center role. Helm appears to have that capability, but they obviously couldn't bank on that with his injuries and poor scoring touch. 

 

I'm not a huge fan of long-term deals regardless, but it's the nature of the NHL now to sign free agents. At this point though, I would have rather taken a one-year flyer on someone like Grabovski than five years of Weiss. 


 
 
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#16 cusimano_brothers

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 01:14 PM

This Christmas?


"Mess up tomorrow, don't mess up now".

- Harry James Benson, CBE.


#17 Jesusberg

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 01:22 PM

Filppula would enter the offensive zone, skate to the half-boards and turn the puck over 80% of the time. Aside from that, he had spurts where he showed a lot of offensive talent, and he was almost always defensively responsible. Weiss is a disaster, but let's not pretend Filppula was some messiah that decided to take off for greener pastures. He felt he was worth more than the Red Wings were willing to offer (based on his offensive performance) and so both sides parted.


Edited by Jesusberg, 14 December 2013 - 01:23 PM.


#18 barabbas16

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 01:24 PM

Lol that's not why they didn't bring him back get your facts straight. He chose not to come back to Detroit. Filppula wasn't bad last year or any year, he makes a difference in every game he plays in unlike Weiss. Filppula was always noticeable in the way Z or Datsyuk is noticeable. Filppula makes your team better and harder to play against each and every night. Why do you think Yzerman went after him? You think Yzerman doesn't know hockey. He took him over Lecalvier.

Filppula could hang on to the puck and carry a lines play, break entry clean over blue line, keep the puck in the other teams zone, won faceoffs, and was great on the defensive side. You guys always expected to have a second line center and second line power play to score 80 points per season... Doesn't happen unless your loaded like the Sharks. Crosby and Malkin are the only other one and two centers who do, they both play on first power play unit all season long.

 

Do you have any support for that statement?  The way I remember it, Filppula was demanding more than he was worth based on his entire career (except for the 2011-12 season).  So, the Wings didn't re-sign him and went instead with a guy who had earned a contract like that based on his career (except for the 2012-13 season). 

 

Sure, it does seem like the wrong decision was made at the moment.  But, taking away the knowledge gained in the last 3 months (which no one had during the free agency period, unless Tampa had Marty McFly and Doc Brown on their staff)... it still looks like the right decision to me, even if it ended up being the wrong one.

 

It definitely sucks right now and will be really bad if Weiss doesn't turn it around.  It was not a ridiculous decision by any stretch at the time, though.



#19 martinezsvsu

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 03:07 PM

weiss has been s*** so far, him out of the line up will not help him get his game back. thats all their is to say.



#20 brett

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Posted 14 December 2013 - 03:09 PM

rather have glendening  anyway


Edited by brett, 14 December 2013 - 03:09 PM.






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