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Richdg

10 ton elephant in the room.

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Guys, I was clearly talking about if Z can't play anymore, which is a legit possibility. Something we will all find out over the next few months. Same is true with franzen and his multiple concussions. These can be career enders. Under that context only if they can't play, we have 1 buyout left to use, that has to be used this summer.

There are so many things wrong here its stunning.

1 - if they are injured that seriously they would just stay on LTIR until their contracts were up and that last buyout could be used on Tootoo who continues to cost the team money while having no chance of playing any time soon.

2 - If a player is injured they CANNOT be bought out.

3 - There is no situation where buying out either of those players makes sense.

4 - letting them retire is better for the team financially than buying out either one.

5 - there is no indication that either player is injured seriously enough that their careers are in jeopardy.

Edited by FlashyG

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I've been away from this board for a long time, just recently came back and I have one question?

What the heck happened to the Red Wings fanbase? Buyout ZETTERBERG?! Are you serious?

I hate to be mean but come on! Some of these comments and trade proposals are miserable.

If the red wings were a more widespread religion, one word would describe some talk on this site....

Blasphemy.

There's been extensive talk of buying z out recently, and before that, trading.....

Wait for it.

Pavel datsyuk.

It's best just to wait till the ships back on course to read this site, cuz people are going crazy with us on the cusp of missin the playoffs.

Scary.

It's Doomsday prophecy type panic.

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Guest DeGraa55   
Guest DeGraa55

Whether Franzen is healthy or not he should be bought out or told to retire. We don't need crap like him on the team.

Then we can sign a guy like vanek in free agency and play some of the younger guys. Maybe make a trade or two but ya... Holland REFUSES to do either of these....

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Whether Franzen is healthy or not he should be bought out or told to retire. We don't need crap like him on the team.

Then we can sign a guy like vanek in free agency and play some of the younger guys. Maybe make a trade or two but ya... Holland REFUSES to do either of these....

Yeah why would we want to keep one of our best goal scorers on a team that struggles to score goals!!!

Holland refuses to buy out Franzen because he's not clinically insane. There isn't a GM in all of hockey who would buyout his contract, the value on it is fantastic.

We could still sign someone like Vanek and keep Franzen so there's absolutely no point in buying him out. Although I personally don't think Vanek is worth the 8+ he'll probably get on the open market.

Its also hard to say Holland won't pursue free agents when we signed 2 of the biggest this past off-season and just missed out on the biggest one the year before. You'd be hard pressed to find a GM who is more active in Free Agency.

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Whether Franzen is healthy or not he should be bought out or told to retire. We don't need crap like him on the team.

Then we can sign a guy like vanek in free agency and play some of the younger guys. Maybe make a trade or two but ya... Holland REFUSES to do either of these....

Franzen scores 27 or 28 goals and 60 points a year. Vanek has been at 30 and 70 on average the last few years. Please explain why Franzen is a bum at a $4 mil cap hit but Vanek is worth the monster contract he's going to want.

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Franzen scores 27 or 28 goals and 60 points a year. Vanek has been at 30 and 70 on average the last few years. Please explain why Franzen is a bum at a $4 mil cap hit but Vanek is worth the monster contract he's going to want.

Dude, you're barking up the wrong tree. Fact is, the Franzen hate around here makes no sense and never will. Somewhere along the line Franzen got a certain reputation and people ran with it. Now they spend all their time trying to justify this hate post hoc with a variety of silly reasons.

Franzen's a floater (he isn't, you don't score as often as he does by not playing),

Franzen's streaky (he isn't, or at least not more so than Zetterberg who typically has longer scoring droughts than Franzen),

Franzen doesn't play defense (he does, in fact he's so responsible Babs has been using him on the PK),

Franzen's contract will be horrible when he's 40 (maybe, but so will every other back diving contract like his. What makes him different?)

Franzen's injury prone (he isn't, at least no more so than Dats and Zetterberg and far less so than Kronwall)

Now, here's the funny part. People say all these things about Franzen, and then when he's playing and scoring and making a difference (which is nearly every game) you say "I thought Franzen was a bum" and they'll reply "Well he isn't a bum NOW, because he's trying". Soooooo stupid.

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Dude, you're barking up the wrong tree. Fact is, the Franzen hate around here makes no sense and never will. Somewhere along the line Franzen got a certain reputation and people ran with it. Now they spend all their time trying to justify this hate post hoc with a variety of silly reasons.

Franzen's a floater (he isn't, you don't score as often as he does by not playing),

Franzen's streaky (he isn't, or at least not more so than Zetterberg who typically has longer scoring droughts than Franzen),

Franzen doesn't play defense (he does, in fact he's so responsible Babs has been using him on the PK),

Franzen's contract will be horrible when he's 40 (maybe, but so will every other back diving contract like his. What makes him different?)

Franzen's injury prone (he isn't, at least no more so than Dats and Zetterberg and far less so than Kronwall)

Now, here's the funny part. People say all these things about Franzen, and then when he's playing and scoring and making a difference (which is nearly every game) you say "I thought Franzen was a bum" and they'll reply "Well he isn't a bum NOW, because he's trying". Soooooo stupid.

Agree with everything except the Kronwall part. He had a lot of injuries early in his career, but he hasn't had injuries to the same body part.

In the cases of Mule and Z, they have issues with head and back respectively. Those recurring injuries, and the fact that they are injuries that can linger and/or reignite, make them what I would call "injury prone",

Kronner has had many different injuries partly because of the way that he has played, which is less physical now that Lids is gone, and partly because that's the way the puck bounces.

Aside from that one thing, I applaud your post.

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Guest DeGraa55   
Guest DeGraa55

That's the stupidest argument ever as I'm sure you're one of the people who say ovi is a floater to? But yet he has 40 goals so far.

Franzen floating and not playing defense is kind of the same idea?

Franzen won't last until he is 40 and I doubt z does as well. Now dats? Ya he can IMO.

Saying Weiss is a top free agent to me is laughable as I've been down on the signing since day one. And I don't care for Alfie signing either...nyquist is pretty much our leading goal scorer with quite a few less games. Imagine if he was in team to start the year like I said he should but couldn't because of Hollands STUPID signings.

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That's the stupidest argument ever as I'm sure you're one of the people who say ovi is a floater to? But yet he has 40 goals so far.

Franzen floating and not playing defense is kind of the same idea?

Franzen won't last until he is 40 and I doubt z does as well. Now dats? Ya he can IMO.

Saying Weiss is a top free agent to me is laughable as I've been down on the signing since day one. And I don't care for Alfie signing either...nyquist is pretty much our leading goal scorer with quite a few less games. Imagine if he was in team to start the year like I said he should but couldn't because of Hollands STUPID signings.

You don't care for the Alfie signing? No offense but I'm glad you're not our GM. He's been one of our better, more consistent forwards this year, 3rd in team scoring, and has that bomb of a shot. Oh, and he's right handed and not named Mikael Samuelsson. Seems like a win win to me.

That said, I agree with you on the Weiss signing. I still don't and didn't like it, but I'm thinking if he's had the hernia since the start or very early into the year, he hasn't been up to snuff. I'm leaving my judgement until after the season, possibly next.

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That's the stupidest argument ever as I'm sure you're one of the people who say ovi is a floater to? But yet he has 40 goals so far.

Franzen floating and not playing defense is kind of the same idea?

Franzen won't last until he is 40 and I doubt z does as well. Now dats? Ya he can IMO.

Saying Weiss is a top free agent to me is laughable as I've been down on the signing since day one. And I don't care for Alfie signing either...nyquist is pretty much our leading goal scorer with quite a few less games. Imagine if he was in team to start the year like I said he should but couldn't because of Hollands STUPID signings.

You realize that when they signed those contracts nobody expected them to play that long, right?

Are you going to answer my question now? How is 2 goals and 8 assists more production worth another $3+ mil a season for the difference between Franzen and Vanek?

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Guest DeGraa55   
Guest DeGraa55

Btw I hate the mobile version of this site I can't quote people?? Maybe it's just me.

Anyway dyes I hate the Alfie signing. Yes I agree with your points you made and it makes sense. If we were close to winning a cup? He'll yes it'd be a great signing! But we are not. It's a FACT this team is still a year or two away. Or more. I know you people in lala LAN like to think differently but it's a fact. This team needs some changes one of which is founding out which young guys can play and contribute. They can't when we have the old and useless taking up play time.

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Btw I hate the mobile version of this site I can't quote people?? Maybe it's just me.

Anyway dyes I hate the Alfie signing. Yes I agree with your points you made and it makes sense. If we were close to winning a cup? He'll yes it'd be a great signing! But we are not. It's a FACT this team is still a year or two away. Or more. I know you people in lala LAN like to think differently but it's a fact. This team needs some changes one of which is founding out which young guys can play and contribute. They can't when we have the old and useless taking up play time.

Try the tapatalk app and look for the lgw forums.

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That's the stupidest argument ever as I'm sure you're one of the people who say ovi is a floater to? But yet he has 40 goals so far.

Franzen floating and not playing defense is kind of the same idea?

Franzen won't last until he is 40 and I doubt z does as well. Now dats? Ya he can IMO.

Saying Weiss is a top free agent to me is laughable as I've been down on the signing since day one. And I don't care for Alfie signing either...nyquist is pretty much our leading goal scorer with quite a few less games. Imagine if he was in team to start the year like I said he should but couldn't because of Hollands STUPID signings.

"Floater" is one of the stupidest fan created terms ever. Generally the guys who get the label are great goal scorers that tend to look for open ice to shoot from, while their line-mates fight to get the puck to them.

Look at the list of players who've all been given that stupid label.

Patrick Kane, Ilya Kovalchuk, Brett Hull, Alexander Ovechkin, Alexei Kovalev, Tomas Vanek, Dany Heatley, Alexander Semin, Phil Kessel, Anze Kopitar, Paul Kariya etc,,,

Basically anyone who scores goals and doesn't get nominated for a Selke is considered one.

What really irks me about Franzen getting that label is that he's only been given the label after signing his current deal (which is a deal for the team BTW) yet his defence has actually improved since the signing. He actually gets used as a penalty killer when one of our regular guys is injured or in the box themselves so clearly Babcock doesn't think his defence is near as bad as you seem to.

I agree that Nyquist should have been in the line-up since day 1 of the season, in fact I think Holland and Babcock both know that as well, but Nyquist wasn't in the minors because we signed Alfredsson and Weiss. If Holland deserves criticism for an off-season move that kept Nyquist out of the line-up (he does) its for bringing back Cleary and/or not buying out Tootoo for a roster spot. Signing Alfredsson was a great signing, and while Weiss wasn't my first or 2nd choice, we needed a center because Flip had no interest in coming back.

You have no objectivity at all when it comes to players you don't like.

Just for comparison sake here is Franzen, Nyquist and Alfredsson's ppg rates this season.

Nyquist .72 ppg

Alfredsson .76 ppg

Franzen .74 ppg

We agree that our young talent needs to filter into the line-up to make this team a legit contender again, but they need to filter in WITH guys like Alfredsson, Franzen, Datsyuk, Zetterberg etc. The guys up front that should be cut loose are guys like Bert, Cleary, Sammy, Miller, Eaves, Emmerton, and Tootoo. Replacing them with our prospects has potential to make us much better, but replacing our best players with prospects will at best be a wash and will more likely make us worse.

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Btw I hate the mobile version of this site I can't quote people?? Maybe it's just me.

Anyway dyes I hate the Alfie signing. Yes I agree with your points you made and it makes sense. If we were close to winning a cup? He'll yes it'd be a great signing! But we are not. It's a FACT this team is still a year or two away. Or more. I know you people in lala LAN like to think differently but it's a fact. This team needs some changes one of which is founding out which young guys can play and contribute. They can't when we have the old and useless taking up play time.

Alfredsson is far from useless. Anytime you can add a player who will help your team, even if it's only going to be for a year or two, you do it. His signing, and the Weiss contract, aren't the problem. Weiss's season long groin issues make Weiss a problem, but that's not something you know will happen, and any player might get hurt.

The real problem was that Holland made a bad assumption that he'd be able to trade someone when he signed Cleary. That led to no roster space or cap room for Nyquist. I said at the time that I didn't mind CLeary coming back, but the deal shouldn't have been finalized until someone was traded.

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I don't hate Franzen but with this last head injury the Wings have to take a look at buying him out when/if he gets healthy. I get that this is an ok contract but if he is sitting in the press box what good is it? Injuries have killed the Red Wings this year and will make it very difficult to make the playoffs. Franzen has a serious head injury and the dude should hang them up because there is life after hockey

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I don't hate Franzen but with this last head injury the Wings have to take a look at buying him out when/if he gets healthy. I get that this is an ok contract but if he is sitting in the press box what good is it? Injuries have killed the Red Wings this year and will make it very difficult to make the playoffs. Franzen has a serious head injury and the dude should hang them up because there is life after hockey

Let's leave the medical advice for Franzen to the doctors who actually examine him. If he is out for the rest of the season, there's no guarantee that he'll be cleared before the compliance buy out window any way, so that won't be an option. If he does retire, the Wings are hit with a cap penalty of just over $1 mil thanks to the Bettman hissy fit recapture rule, which isn't a killer, but the Wings might opt to let him do the Chris Pronger thing instead of buying him out.

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I agree on Franzen. I am one of, if not THE biggest Franzen haters here, but if his on ice problems are because of his head issues, and he takes the rest of the season off and over the summer becomes 100% again? I am all for seeing what a 100% healthy Franzen can do again. If he cannot come back 100% and we miss the buyout period, then he needs to retire.


BTW, there is NO WAY you buy out Zetterberg. If he gets surgery or just stays off the ice until next season to get healthy again, you give him every chance to do so. If he cannot do it, then let him retire. No way you buy him out and risk him becoming healthy again only to sign in Pittsburgh or Boston or Tampa...

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I agree on Franzen. I am one of, if not THE biggest Franzen haters here, but if his on ice problems are because of his head issues, and he takes the rest of the season off and over the summer becomes 100% again? I am all for seeing what a 100% healthy Franzen can do again. If he cannot come back 100% and we miss the buyout period, then he needs to retire.

I think Franzen is a fine player when healthy.

Would you hazard to guess how many times you've posted the exact same thing? Do you just have it copied and pasted at all times?

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honestly, I have never really posted that I want to see what Franzen does when he is healthy. I have always said, trade him, cut him, buy him out, retire, etc... I never really cared before if he was healthy or not, I always wanted him gone. BUT, knowing now what I do know about his injury may be due to his first one back in 2008, I am willing to let him sit out and get 100% and then if he comes back and plays like he did in 2008, or if he still stinks, then I will form my opinion of him...

but, please, since you obviously posted just to try and tear me down, take the time and go back prior to the announcement that he may be having issues from his 2008 injury and show me where I said that if Franzen was healthy that I would love him here...if indeed his injury in 2008 is what has caused his decline over the years, then I was wrong and would welcome back a 100% healthy Franzen who can push for 30-40 goals and show up in the playoffs...

but until recently I have said nothing but how much I hated him and how much the choice was wrong. I am not saying that I will not dislike him anymore, but I will at least wait to see if he gets 100%. If he keeps attempting pre-mature comebacks then he is not only hurting this team, but himself. He needs to become 100% healthy and get a 100% ok from the doctor before I want him back on this team. If he cannot get 100%. then he needs to retire or get bought out if we can get that determination before the buyout period ends...

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