• Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

Andy Pred 48

Next Seasons Needs/Team Future

Rate this topic

2,595 posts in this topic

I agree with 1-3.

But the 4th....SMFH. At least make an offer to guys like Callahan or vanek. Just don't overpay and when/if we get outbid so be it. But at least make an effort.

I think we need three free agents or trades this off season...maybe four if we don't resign monster.

Why waste time making an offer that's less than their reported salary demands? Callahan wants $6 mil per, Vanek wants $50 mil over 7 years. Neither are worth close to that.

I don't go to Captain Cut and Paste's blog, I just go to milve and the Detroit paper sites directly, but I'm assuming Holland said they weren't going to get into a bidding war or something, unless the above post was it. In that case, it doesn't say he wouldn't give their agents a call.

On Defense, I'd be happy to let Smith move into the top 4 and bring in a rookie for the third pair, and let Kindl and Lashoff fight it out for the 6 spot. People always say they want to give kids a chance, then demand that they go out and get vets to fill holes. Smith has 120+ NHL games in plus two playoff runs, and showed improvement. He deserves the shot.

Edited by DickieDunn
wings4thecup06 likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with 1-3.

But the 4th....SMFH. At least make an offer to guys like Callahan or vanek. Just don't overpay and when/if we get outbid so be it. But at least make an effort.

I think we need three free agents or trades this off season...maybe four if we don't resign monster.

I believe you could call that exploring.

As for FAs. There's only room for 3 even with a goalie: 1D, 1F (depending on whether Alfie retires and Mantha/Jurco sent down), and 1G if Mrazek isn't backup. We need to leave 1 spot on D where a prospect can take away a spot (probably Kindl's).

My ideal:

Sign Nabokov for 1 year (I want Mrazek, but people say another year in the AHL is better for him)

SIgn Gaborik: if not let Mantha/Jurco play (don't want Moulson/Vanek/Callahan at their prices)

Sign Markov for 1 year: would mean that Sproul/Marchenko get the call to supply a righty and Kindl/Lashoff need to move to make room. If not: Let the kids play!

Tootoo traded to give him a chance to play

(Miller traded for Eaves, haha)

Z-D-Alfie/Mantha

Franzen-Weiss-Gaborik

Tatar-Sheahan-Nyquist

Miller-Helm-Abby

Glendening

Kronwall-Dekeyser

Markov-Smith

Ericsson-Kindl/Sproul/Marchenko

Lashoff

Howard

Nabokov

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe you could call that exploring.

As for FAs. There's only room for 3 even with a goalie: 1D, 1F (depending on whether Alfie retires and Mantha/Jurco sent down), and 1G if Mrazek isn't backup. We need to leave 1 spot on D where a prospect can take away a spot (probably Kindl's).

My ideal:

Sign Nabokov for 1 year (I want Mrazek, but people say another year in the AHL is better for him)

SIgn Gaborik: if not let Mantha/Jurco play (don't want Moulson/Vanek/Callahan at their prices)

Sign Markov for 1 year: would mean that Sproul/Marchenko get the call to supply a righty and Kindl/Lashoff need to move to make room. If not: Let the kids play!

Tootoo traded to give him a chance to play

(Miller traded for Eaves, haha)

Z-D-Alfie/Mantha

Franzen-Weiss-Gaborik

Tatar-Sheahan-Nyquist

Miller-Helm-Abby

Glendening

Kronwall-Dekeyser

Markov-Smith

Ericsson-Kindl/Sproul/Marchenko

Lashoff

Howard

Nabokov

I hope you don't mean Danny Markov lol

Gaborik will probably re-sign in LA, he seems to really be enjoying himself there.

Markov I would take, might be a little pricey, but what the hell, not my money so let's splurge, we got the cap space anyway.

I know Kenny said we shouldnt be expecting a big free agency splash from him, but he says that every year, and still signs players, we will get a dman, probably not Markov cause kenny wants a rh shot, that's why I see us getting Boyle

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know Kenny said we shouldnt be expecting a big free agency splash from him, but he says that every year, and still signs players, we will get a dman, probably not Markov cause kenny wants a rh shot, that's why I see us getting Boyle

Exactly. They will bring in a D man. Through trade or free agency, guaranteed.

Both Holland and Babcock (and my dog, and cabbie, and the girl who gets me popcorn at the movies, and Jeff Bridges, and Prince) said they need to improve the friggin' D.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

we need to make the deal for Kesler, sign Morris and Mitchell to 2 year deals....bingo, instantly better up front and on D...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

wings4cup, we had cap issues more than anything this year. That is not the case. Also all of our top Dman prospects have 2-3 years left before they hit waivers. let them develop and EARN a spot in Detroit instead of just giving them a spot.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is it just me or has Hollands mentality changed from "let's put together a championship team" to "let's put together a competitive team" and makes the playoffs. I get that the cap has hindered his magic some from the golden years in the late 90's but we have aging super stars and I see it as a failure every off-season Holland doesn't make an effort to go for the cup for Pav and Z. You gotta take some chances now before it's too late.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What's the problem?? If a kid impresses that much to earn a job over a vet then great, that just gives us another good asset to move to improve in other areas

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dat, so right. I have said many times..... either rebuild or go for the cup. Pick one and do it. I am ok either way. Stop with the half a$$ measures.

Datsyukian-Deke likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

People,

Besides staying relatively healthy - this team has ONE NEED. A capable puck moving, offensive defenseman that plays within our system. Forget this obsession with the Right Handed Shot, last time we won a cup we only had 1 in our top six. Our problem is and (has been since Lidstrom left), a massive void on the backend where we lack the playmaking, transition and control of the game we once had.

Kronwall can certainly play this style - but unfortunately he cant seem to do it while playing the shutdown role as well. As long as management stays on the same page - and based on our prospects pool we certainly draft like it - we need to acquire a defenseman (left or right handed) that can get the puck out of our zone and set up/sustain our possession based offense. We still have a very capable group of forwards, not any worse than those of Montreal or New York - the difference is they have much better puck movers than we do.

The rest of our top 6 (Ericsson, Dekeyser, Smith, Kindl and Quincey) represent 4 players that played the exact same defensive minded game, and Brendan Smith who does not fit the style of game our forwards are used to playing. At times, I liked what I saw from Smith, I thought he showed some of his skillset - but it was almost ALWAYS a great individual rush beating 1 or 2 players, circle back and make a pass to a forward regardless of how bad of a position the forward was in. His 19 points in the regular season, and 0 in the playoffs seam to reflect this.

I understand the value of having a mix of Right Handed players, but this team needs a Quarterback - even if he shoots left.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kenny will manage to create a roster jam somehow. Just watch. Seems like he just can't help himself sometimes. We will likely have another "Nyquist situation" on our hands with our D prospects trying to get out of the minors. This is pessimistic but probably more likely than a lot of other people's expectations.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

People,

Besides staying relatively healthy - this team has ONE NEED. A capable puck moving, offensive defenseman that plays within our system. Forget this obsession with the Right Handed Shot, last time we won a cup we only had 1 in our top six. Our problem is and (has been since Lidstrom left), a massive void on the backend where we lack the playmaking, transition and control of the game we once had.

Kronwall can certainly play this style - but unfortunately he cant seem to do it while playing the shutdown role as well. As long as management stays on the same page - and based on our prospects pool we certainly draft like it - we need to acquire a defenseman (left or right handed) that can get the puck out of our zone and set up/sustain our possession based offense. We still have a very capable group of forwards, not any worse than those of Montreal or New York - the difference is they have much better puck movers than we do.

The rest of our top 6 (Ericsson, Dekeyser, Smith, Kindl and Quincey) represent 4 players that played the exact same defensive minded game, and Brendan Smith who does not fit the style of game our forwards are used to playing. At times, I liked what I saw from Smith, I thought he showed some of his skillset - but it was almost ALWAYS a great individual rush beating 1 or 2 players, circle back and make a pass to a forward regardless of how bad of a position the forward was in. His 19 points in the regular season, and 0 in the playoffs seam to reflect this.

I understand the value of having a mix of Right Handed players, but this team needs a Quarterback - even if he shoots left.

I agree with this, but I don't think it goes far enough. I want the puck mover. That's the top priority. But since the San Jose and Nashville series a few years ago teams have figured out that if you keep Detroit to the outside, and block shots, you'll beat them. In the playoffs we play EXCLUSIVELY from the perimeter.

We need to get bigger and grittier. I don't mean fighters, or hulking fourth liners. I mean we need top six talent with enough size and toughness to play in front of the net. It's not surprising that guys like Carter, Bickell, Bourque are scoring in the playoffs. They go to areas that playoff goals get scored from.

I'm not saying skill doesn't matter. It does (Gaborik is proving that every game). I'm saying we've got enough skill already and need to compliment it. One or two big bodied wingers who can score in the crease (sorry Abby) would probably increase our success.

wings4thecup06 likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

...but, but we have Franzen for that! :lol:

I get your point, and it's hard to disagree. But even if we'd kept Hossa and let Franzen walk, we'd still have the same problem. They're both skill players. One is clearly better than the other, no doubt, but but it's not like Marian Hossa is banging in rebound goals while Franzen exclusively plays outside.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So I was thinking.

Dustin Tokarski. John Gibson. Frederik Andersen. Jake Allen. Martin Jones. Chad Johnson. Ben Bishop. Robin Lehner. Semyon Varlamov. Jonathan Bernier. Alex Stalock. Darcy Kuemper. Petr Mrazek. Et al. They're all quite good and all quite cap-friendly. And there were a few nice veteran surprises, like Ilya Bryzgalov.

And then we have Jimmy Howard. Above average, but coming off a very disappointing, injury-riddled season. 30 years old, a cap hit of a little more than $5M for the next four or five years, has never gone especially deep in the playoffs. And the understanding - drilled into our heads through repetition - is that he is our guy, no matter what, hardcore, forevz.

Was the big-money extension a mistake? Could we maybe see one of those younger fellows doing for us what Jimmy Howard has done for us and only costing a fraction of Jimmy Howard's cap hit? Would a, say, Mrazek-Hiller tandem be so terrible? Is there a reason why we're so loyal to Jimmy Howard? Certainly we can't say, "It's almost impossible to acquire a Realgud goalie in this day and age." Unlike the borderline mythical Top-Four Defenseman, the Realgud Goalie doesn't seem all that hard to come by. Indeed, we have at least one in the pipeline who's ready for a legitimate job in the big league.

Detroit # 1 Fan likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So I was thinking.

Dustin Tokarski. John Gibson. Frederik Andersen. Jake Allen. Martin Jones. Chad Johnson. Ben Bishop. Robin Lehner. Semyon Varlamov. Jonathan Bernier. Alex Stalock. Darcy Kuemper. Petr Mrazek. Et al. They're all quite good and all quite cap-friendly. And there were a few nice veteran surprises, like Ilya Bryzgalov.

And then we have Jimmy Howard. Above average, but coming off a very disappointing, injury-riddled season. 30 years old, a cap hit of a little more than $5M for the next four or five years, has never gone especially deep in the playoffs. And the understanding - drilled into our heads through repetition - is that he is our guy, no matter what, hardcore, forevz.

Was the big-money extension a mistake? Could we maybe see one of those younger fellows doing for us what Jimmy Howard has done for us and only costing a fraction of Jimmy Howard's cap hit? Would a, say, Mrazek-Hiller tandem be so terrible? Is there a reason why we're so loyal to Jimmy Howard? Certainly we can't say, "It's almost impossible to acquire a Realgud goalie in this day and age." Unlike the borderline mythical Top-Four Defenseman, the Realgud Goalie doesn't seem all that hard to come by. Indeed, we have at least one in the pipeline who's ready for a legitimate job in the big league.

Lundqvist and Quick (two of the league's highest paid goalies) are probably going to meet in final. One could argue that spending 6+M on an elite goalie is the way to go.

Kenny will manage to create a roster jam somehow. Just watch. Seems like he just can't help himself sometimes. We will likely have another "Nyquist situation" on our hands with our D prospects trying to get out of the minors. This is pessimistic but probably more likely than a lot of other people's expectations.

Except with 20+ M in cap space, and 2 more years of waiver eligibility for all the D prospects + Pulkinen, and with Mantha, Nastasiuk, AA, etc all with 3 years.......

How's Kenny going to create this jam?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lundqvist and Quick (two of the league's highest paid goalies) are probably going to meet in final. One could argue that spending 6+M on an elite goalie is the way to go.

Except with 20+ M in cap space, and 2 more years of waiver eligibility for all the D prospects + Pulkinen, and with Mantha, Nastasiuk, AA, etc all with 3 years.......

How's Kenny going to create this jam?

Exactly. The log jam happens in two or three years as a result of the influx of too many NHL caliber prospects, not because of a free agent signing or two today. Even if Holland did nothing this year, three years from now we'd still have to trade quality talent away because there just won't be enough room. Trouble is, between now and then all our improvement would have to come from "prospects taking the next step". Which is a gamble. Probably better to trade a few of them off now. Gets you some proven NHL talent today, and relieves the logjam tomorrow. Win/win.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lundqvist and Quick (two of the league's highest paid goalies) are probably going to meet in final. One could argue that spending 6+M on an elite goalie is the way to go.

Well, yeah. If you have a truly elite goalie, you pay him what he wants when it comes time to hammer out an extension. And if you can acquire one (and I'm talking about a really short list of names), you do it. But do you go all in for a Jimmy Howard? Do you make him one of the highest paid goalies in the league?

For what it's worth, Lundqvist is only a couple years older than Howard and Quick is a couple years younger.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Exactly. The log jam happens in two or three years as a result of the influx of too many NHL caliber prospects, not because of a free agent signing or two today. Even if Holland did nothing this year, three years from now we'd still have to trade quality talent away because there just won't be enough room. Trouble is, between now and then all our improvement would have to come from "prospects taking the next step". Which is a gamble. Probably better to trade a few of them off now. Gets you some proven NHL talent today, and relieves the logjam tomorrow. Win/win.

Well, Kenny a few choices to avaid the log jam in 3 years, IMO:

1. Trade some valuable prospects now for a legit D man. I'm talking Yandle, Vlasic, Erhoff, Edler, whomever.

2. Sign two veteran D men (Boyle, Greene, Mitchell, Morris, Zidlicky, etc) to short term, two year deals. There's an extremly good chance that two of Sproul, Ouellet, Backman, Matchenko, or Jensen will be NHL calibre players. Maybe great ones.

3. Sign Niskanen to a long term deal. This locks up 5 D for the foreseable future (Kronwall, Ericsson, Dekeyser, Smith, Niskanen). Sometime in the next two years, trade some D prospects for a top six forward and let the remaining D prospects duke it out for the last two spots.

In some ways it's amazing to have this many tradeable assets in the system. But then I think about what Poille was able to get out of Holland for Legwand and then I cry when I think about what Yandle or Kesler would cost.

Dabura likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kenny will manage to create a roster jam somehow. Just watch. Seems like he just can't help himself sometimes. We will likely have another "Nyquist situation" on our hands with our D prospects trying to get out of the minors. This is pessimistic but probably more likely than a lot of other people's expectations.

Don't forget last years log jam saved our bacon and allowed us to get into the playoffs. With all the injuries we would have been even more thin at forward than we already were.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't forget last years log jam saved our bacon and allowed us to get into the playoffs. With all the injuries we would have been even more thin at forward than we already were.

Unfortunately most don't see it that way. In fact I'd go further and say many don't care about making the playoffs unless we're a perennial favorite.

So if we do have depth, the belief is it's only limiting our young players progress. Which of course ignores half of what goes into developing a player AND makes the team weaker.

But hey if we're not going to make the conference finals for certain then we may as well tank and head for that lottery pick because no teams ever exceed expectations. Right New York? Montreal?

(Sorry this whole don't sign UFAs because it might contribute to a log-jam in 2-3 years is absolutely ridiculous)

dirtydangles likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And for a taste of the absurd, Eklund reporting that Joe Thornton to Detroit is "heating up".

How fulfilling would it be to call Eklund a "lying sack of s***" face-to-face?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But then I think about what Poille was able to get out of Holland for Legwand and then I cry when I think about what Yandle or Kesler would cost.

Holland was desperate for Legwand, though. Poile probably could've squeezed half our prospect pool out of him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And for a taste of the absurd, Eklund reporting that Joe Thornton to Detroit is "heating up".

How fulfilling would it be to call Eklund a "lying sack of s***" face-to-face?

I can absolutely see it being true, especially if we're also in on Boyle. That doesn't scream Ken Holland?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now