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Andy Pred 48

Next Seasons Needs/Team Future

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Are people actually serious about offer sheets? I don't get how you guys are arguing what Kip is saying... Everything he has said is completely accurate. There is no point in offer sheeting a player. There is no way we would get him without ridiculously overpaying. And the most important thing... There is absolutely ZERO chance Mr. Ken Holland offer sheets any player. He knows it is bad business and why make enemies when it accomplishes absolutely nothing.

wings4thecup06 and e_prime like this

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Are people actually serious about offer sheets? I don't get how you guys are arguing what Kip is saying... Everything he has said is completely accurate. There is no point in offer sheeting a player. There is no way we would get him without ridiculously overpaying. And the most important thing... There is absolutely ZERO chance Mr. Ken Holland offer sheets any player. He knows it is bad business and why make enemies when it accomplishes absolutely nothing.

To be fair, Kenny was considering considering (not a typo) offer-sheeting Weber. But I guess Weber made it pretty clear that he wasn't keen on becoming a Wing, i.e. "You can shoot me an offer, but I'm not signing it. So...don't." Or maybe Poile just told him to back the f*** off or else he'd steal Jarnkrok, and then he stole Jarnkrok anyway, just cuz.

But yeah. Unless you've got some kind of legitimate inside track on the guy, and he's unequivocally worth the trouble, don't go there.

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There's a ton of dough coming off the books, we have moveable assets, and the cap is going up. Even with raises, there's no reason we couldn't end up with Kesler, Thornton, and a top 2-3 Dman.

And that's what we'll need to win it all.

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There's a ton of dough coming off the books, we have moveable assets, and the cap is going up. Even with raises, there's no reason we couldn't end up with Kesler, Thornton, and a top 2-3 Dman.

Everything I'm hearing/reading is pointing to an epic asking price for Kesler and at least equal value (player-for-player) for Thornton. So, no Kesler, no Thornton, and maybe (maaaaaaaybe) a pretty good defenseman.

Just saying. Don't set yourself up for disappointment. :-(

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The only thing you do when you sign a player to an offer sheet is do the other team's negotiating for them unless you make the world's worst offer. There's a good reason nobody makes them often and only one hasn't been matched.

e_prime likes this

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Not to add any support to anyone suggesting that we offer sheet P.K. Subban... but I think the only time an offer sheet has actually worked out for a team is when San Jose made an offer to Hjarlmramadamason, Chicago matched, and then San Jose was able to grab up Niemi because Chicago was in cap hell.

So... let's offer sheet Weise, Eller, and White... MTL will match and not have money for Subban. Right?

Oh wait. They're not in cap-hell. ...and we don't really want/need any of those guys...

NEVERMIND.

/comedyroutine.


There's a ton of dough coming off the books, we have moveable assets, and the cap is going up. Even with raises, there's no reason we couldn't end up with Kesler, Thornton, and a top 2-3 Dman.

And that's what we'll need to win it all.

Is that all? ;)

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While true that no one makes offers, I will ask a question. How many trades have we made lately? How many guys were later traded for less than we offered. nash comes to mind. We made a much better offer than the Rangers did. yet we didn't get nash. Why? Because as Holland has admitted, everyone wants to over charge us. this has been talked about on this forum many times that it sure seems like the rest of the NHL doesn't want to do business with us very often. Heck look at the legwand trade this year. We clearly overpaid.

Maybe, just maybe we need to stop being so damn nice. Both in the front office and on the ice.

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Making an offer sheet or a trade offer has nothing to do with being nice.

You make up your mind on what you're willing to "pay" for a player and you either stick to that plan or you adjust it based upon your needs and/or counter-offers. You weigh the pros/cons. It has nothing to do with being nice.

As someone mentioned earlier this week;

Just because Ken Holland isn't making the decisions and choices you like in the frequency and type you'd prefer... doesn't mean that he isn't making decisions. (Just for clarity, I don't specifically mean you Rich.)

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Making an offer sheet or a trade offer has nothing to do with being nice.

You make up your mind on what you're willing to "pay" for a player and you either stick to that plan or you adjust it based upon your needs and/or counter-offers. You weigh the pros/cons. It has nothing to do with being nice.

As someone mentioned earlier this week;

Just because Ken Holland isn't making the decisions and choices you like in the frequency and type you'd prefer... doesn't mean that he isn't making decisions. (Just for clarity, I don't specifically mean you Rich.)

Well I think every GM is making some decisions all the time, people are often forgetting that they aren't onlly responsible for the big club they also have to follow the development of the prospects, "sell" a plan to the owners and judge the coaches all the time.

Would I like Holland to finally admit the obvious ? Yes, do I think it will happen hardly so I expect nothing that way I can only be surprised in a positive way.

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Well I think every GM is making some decisions all the time, people are often forgetting that they aren't onlly responsible for the big club they also have to follow the development of the prospects, "sell" a plan to the owners and judge the coaches all the time. Would I like Holland to finally admit the obvious ? Yes, do I think it will happen hardly so I expect nothing that way I can only be surprised in a positive way.

To your first point, absolutely! Being a GM isn't just flipping picks, prospects, and players. The things that happen behind the scenes, on phone calls, on trade calls, etc. aren't transparent. They can't be.

To your second, having no expectations is a great way of going about it. The likelihood that Ken Holland is going to do what any of us want/expect is very, very slim. I have my opinions and I know what I'd like to see, but I'm not all doom and gloom just because I KNOW he's not going to do ANYTHING or WHAT I WANTED!

...but what is obvious that he needs to admit?

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Making an offer sheet or a trade offer has nothing to do with being nice.

You make up your mind on what you're willing to "pay" for a player and you either stick to that plan or you adjust it based upon your needs and/or counter-offers. You weigh the pros/cons. It has nothing to do with being nice.

As someone mentioned earlier this week;

Just because Ken Holland isn't making the decisions and choices you like in the frequency and type you'd prefer... doesn't mean that he isn't making decisions. (Just for clarity, I don't specifically mean you Rich.)

As was being beat to death in this thread, many were saying "can't make offer sheets because it upsets the rest of the GM's and then they will not do business with you". That is the number 1 or 2 reason given for not doing offer sheets. But as I mentioned, no one does business with us now, and when they do they overcharge/Holland overpays. So what do we have to lose by doing it? Nothing. No I do not expect Holland to change his ways on this. Honestly I don't expect him to do much this off season no matter how much Babcock, Datsyuk, Z, and us fans all want him to. Which is risky if you ask me.....

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As was being beat to death in this thread, many were saying "can't make offer sheets because it upsets the rest of the GM's and then they will not do business with you". That is the number 1 or 2 reason given for not doing offer sheets. But as I mentioned, no one does business with us now, and when they do they overcharge/Holland overpays. So what do we have to lose by doing it? Nothing. No I do not expect Holland to change his ways on this. Honestly I don't expect him to do much this off season no matter how much Babcock, Datsyuk, Z, and us fans all want him to. Which is risky if you ask me.....

Oh, I understood your point. You didn't need to continue to flog the dead horse for my benefit.

Edited by e_prime

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Let's all be clear: we're looking at maybe one big acquisition this summer, and even then, it's likely not going to be a top talent. Do not get your hopes up for something big. As Malik has pointed out, you can pretty much set your watch by what Team Holland says the offseason will likely bring for the Wings. Kenny's not the kind to, say, stress our need for a right-shooting defenseman on a short-term deal and then go balls-out in a bidding war for a Matt Niskanen, or turn around and decide we really need a Tomas Vanek or a Ryan Miller or whatever. He always has a plan, and he always tries to follow it as closely as he can, within reason.

At most, we're likely looking at Tom Gilbert, Daniel Alfredsson, Jonas Gustavsson, and a couple Euros no one here's ever heard of (we've already got one in Nosek). Or maybe sub one of those out for Legwand, whatever. Mantha will not make the team out of camp. Pulkkinen will not make the team out of camp. Jurco - who should be on the team - may not make it out of camp. Kindl and Lashoff will likely be on the roster, at least on opening night.

There is no Santa Claus. You were adopted. Your wife is cheating on you.

Edited by Dabura

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this is my ideal off-season (pls don't knock it):

- Let Alfie/Bert/Legwand walk in order to stay young (unless they're willing to come back for cheap)
- Trade for Spezza (I think we've got enough assets to entice the Sens to pull the trigger on a deal)
- Sign Vanek or Gaborik (preferably Gaborik; he's proven that he's got a lot left in the tank and hasn't shown any sign of slowing down. I'd be totally fine with giving this guy 6 mil for 3-5 seasons, he's a natural goal scorer with a laser for a shot and his clutch gene is up there with Kane's, not to mention he'd likely flourish playing on a line with Datsyuk)
- If neither Vanek/Gaborik are available, Stastny would be a healthy alternative, though I wouldn't overpay him.
- Match any offers for Tatar/Sheahan/Dekeyser as long as said offers aren't outrageously high.
- Call up Almquist and Pulkinnen (let Mantha and Sproul get their feet wet in the AHL for a season, or a portion of it)


Projected line-up:

Abdelkader/Datsyuk/Gaborik
Zetterberg/Spezza/Franzen
Tatar/Sheahan/Nyquist
Pulkkinen/Weiss (Helm?)/Jurco

Smith/Kronwall
Quincy/DeKeyser
Kindl/Almquist

Edited by Red Wing

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this is my ideal off-season (pls don't knock it):

- Let Alfie/Bert/Legwand walk in order to stay young (unless they're willing to come back for cheap)

- Trade for Spezza (I think we've got enough assets to entice the Sens to pull the trigger on a deal)

- Sign Vanek or Gaborik (preferably Gaborik; he's proven that he's got a lot left in the tank and hasn't shown any sign of slowing down. I'd be totally fine with giving this guy 6 mil for 3-5 seasons, he's a natural goal scorer with a laser for a shot and his clutch gene is up there with Kane's, not to mention he'd likely flourish playing on a line with Datsyuk)

- If neither Vanek/Gaborik are available, Stastny would be a healthy alternative, though I wouldn't overpay him.

- Match any offers for Tatar/Sheahan/Dekeyser as long as said offers aren't outrageously high.

- Call up Almquist and Pulkinnen (let Mantha and Sproul get their feet wet in the AHL for a season, or a portion of it)

Projected line-up:

Abdelkader/Datsyuk/Gaborik

Zetterberg/Spezza/Franzen

Tatar/Sheahan/Nyquist

Pulkkinen/Weiss (Helm?)/Jurco

Smith/Kronwall

Quincy/DeKeyser

Kindl/Almquist

Not sure if you forgot Ericsson but if rather he be there than Quincey....

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My dream offseason if I were GM (I realize Holland wouldn't do any of this):

- Buyout Franzen (will never happen)

- Re-Sign Sheahan, Dekeyser (likely)

- Sign Vanek (unlikely)

- Call Up Mantha, Sproul, Marchenko (Marchenko only one likely)

- Trade Tatar, Ericsson, 1st for Kris Letang (very unlikely)

- Sign a Backup goalie to 1 year deal (likely)

- Trade Kindl, Andersson for peanuts (could happen)

Zetterberg - Datsyuk - Mantha

Vanek - Weiss - Nyquist

Abdelkader - Sheahan - Jurco

Miller - Helm - Glendening

Ferraro, Callahan

Kronwall - Letang

Dekeyser - Sproul

Smith - Marchenko

Lashoff

Howard

Backup (1 year)

This team would have some serious growing pains but I feel like they might as well happen all at once rather than breaking in a few players every year and never having a group that collectively has NHL experience. I'd also like to ditch Franzen now and replace with Mantha, Vanek rather than eat Franzen's cap hit for years to come (Z will also be on the books longer that his career likely lasts).

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[quote name="e_prime" post="2523739" timestamp="

/comedyroutine.

Is that all? ;)

:-) Go Big, or go home ( in the first or second round like we have been) . The future is no place to place your better days. (Hey, thats a Dave Mathews song!) do it now.

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That would be amazing, Dangles. Call me biased but I truly believe Mantha is a superstar in the making. I think he's ready for the NHL right away which is why I think we should consider calling him up next season if he tears up the AHL early on.

Edited by Red Wing

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:confused1:

Porque?

Crazy upside and potential, IMHO. I feel like he could be a superstar on a more skill-based team...like ours. Really big body. Sick puck skillz. Defensively responsible. I'm just pipedreaming here, because we're not adding a 2C, let alone one we'd have to pay out the ass to acquire (Berglund probably fits that mold, hence me saying this), but...the thought of Zetterberg and Berglund on the same line, and it's our second line, and Mantha's a 30-goal-scorer on the first line, on Datsyuk's right wing...oh man.

While I'm pipedreaming about Blues players, let me say that Shattenkirk is probably #1 on my list of desirables. I'd even take him over Wayne Simmonds.

Edited by Dabura

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Crazy upside and potential, IMHO. I feel like he could be a superstar on a more skill-based team...like ours. Really big body. Sick puck skillz. Defensively responsible. I'm just pipedreaming here, because we're not adding a 2C, let alone one we'd have to pay out the ass to acquire (Berglund probably fits that mold, hence me saying this), but...the thought of Zetterberg and Berglund on the same line, and it's our second line, and Mantha's a 30-goal-scorer on the first line, on Datsyuk's right wing...oh man.

While I'm pipedreaming about Blues players, let me say that Shattenkirk is probably #1 on my list of desirables. I'd even take him over Wayne Simmonds.

Shattenkirk? And just when Girardi needs you the most

e_prime and kipwinger like this

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