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Andy Pred 48

Next Seasons Needs/Team Future

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Basically because you're putting on your eggs in the kid basket(stole the line from someone else). What happens if none of them pan out? Were f***ED then. And if some do pan out(which I personally believe they will) were still several years away from them being dominate.

So I ask are we in win now mode? If so we need a defenseman(stats show bottom 2 is what's needed) and a top six forward or two. We need a number two center. Will that be Weiss? I would prefer to trade for spezza personally. We also need a big winger to play with the euro twins something we don't have and need to acquire via trade or FA. Meaning I have nyquist on the second line with whoever as third and Franzen on third(or second I guess...).

You have no idea what you're talking about. I don't mean that in a mean way. Actually, yes, I do. Kinda.

We could use some help up front. Every team could. (See: LA acquiring Richards, Carter, Gaborik.) But these days it's about being able to roll four solid lines. (Ask the Penguins.) It's also about having an elite, cornerstone defenseman, or at least a really solid top-four. I think this is fine:

Zetterberg Datsyuk Jurco

Franzen Weiss/Sheahan Nyquist

Or this:

Jurco Datsyuk Alfredsson

Franzen Zetterberg Nyquist

Or whatever. And Mantha's in there somewhere.

Versus this:

Kronwall Ericsson

DeKeyser Smith

Kindl Marchenko

Which makes me want to cry.

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I would definitely say no on that one.

Why would you not ****** up a 24 year old big power forward who can play center and wing coming off a 34 goal 79 point season and his 26 year old big physical shot blocking defenseman brother?

BTW, s n a t c h is blocked.

Edited by DickieDunn

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You have no idea what you're talking about. I don't mean that in a mean way. Actually, yes, I do. Kinda.

We could use some help up front. Every team could. (See: LA acquiring Richards, Carter, Gaborik.) But these days it's about being able to roll four solid lines. (Ask the Penguins.) It's also about having an elite, cornerstone defenseman, or at least a really solid top-four. I think this is fine:

Zetterberg Datsyuk Jurco

Franzen Weiss/Sheahan Nyquist

Or this:

Jurco Datsyuk Alfredsson

Franzen Zetterberg Nyquist

Or whatever. And Mantha's in there somewhere.

Versus this:

Kronwall Ericsson

DeKeyser Smith

Kindl Marchenko

Which makes me want to cry.

Thanks for the compliment. You want to run guys who are aging and can't stay healthy out there year after year at forward with a MAJORITY if them in the decline. Thank GOD you don't run this team.

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Thanks for the compliment. You want to run guys who are aging and can't stay healthy out there year after year at forward with a MAJORITY if them in the decline. Thank GOD you don't run this team.

I think what he's trying to say is that that defense looks atrocious and the top 6, while not being the best top 6 ever, is still full of guys that can contribute and create offense. The top 6 could use some work, sure, but if we don't fix the D (top 4 specifically) we're in more trouble than if we don't fix the top 6. And don't say we need to sign a bottom pair guy, because we have 8 options already in the system. Besides, since you think Smith is a top 4 guy (which we know I disagree with), wouldn't it be nice to have a top 4 guy on your third pair? Bottom line is we need a top 4 guy waaayyyyy before we need a top 6 forward.

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I think what he's trying to say is that that defense looks atrocious and the top 6, while not being the best top 6 ever, is still full of guys that can contribute and create offense. The top 6 could use some work, sure, but if we don't fix the D (top 4 specifically) we're in more trouble than if we don't fix the top 6. And don't say we need to sign a bottom pair guy, because we have 8 options already in the system. Besides, since you think Smith is a top 4 guy (which we know I disagree with), wouldn't it be nice to have a top 4 guy on your third pair? Bottom line is we need a top 4 guy waaayyyyy before we need a top 6 forward.

I'm not saying defense is set in just saying kronwall e smith and dekeyser is far better to hen what we have in the top six. At least they can stay on the ice AND two are improving rabidly.

Yes a superstar number one to pair with kronwall would be great but IT AINT HAPPENING. Now I agree with holland in having a righty in te top four would be good but I just don't see any major move happening there that will help this team.

Also having a legitimate number two center would be great I don't have faith in Weiss staying healthy hope I'm wrong but who knows.

Also dat likes a guy with size in his wing do we want Abby there or someone who can score 30+ goals?

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Why would you not ****** up a 24 year old big power forward who can play center and wing coming off a 34 goal 79 point season and his 26 year old big physical shot blocking defenseman brother?

BTW, s n a t c h is blocked.

It's the Mantha part I have an issue with. Obviously we don't know how he'll pan out, but he's the most exciting kid we've had in probably as long as I can remember. Swap him out for a slightly lower level prospect and I'd probably bite.

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Jamie Benn is my favorite non Red Wing in the entire league, I absolutely love the guy, but I would still shut down that trade in a heart beat. Mantha is the most highly touted prospect we've had in a looong long time, he has the "potential" to be a Jamie Benn is just a few years. I like Jordie Benn as well but I think both Smith and Sproul will be much, much better in a few years, and I'd bet a decent amount of money that at least one of them will be a better player then Jordie. Unlike many others here, I believe that Smith and Sproul will be our number one pair in the mold of Keith and Seabrook in 5-7 years. Then you add in Pulkkinen, the much needed right handed sniper we've been lacking since Hull, and then a first as well... HUGE over payment in my opinion...

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Cameron Maybin was the most exciting position player the Tigers had in years. Ericsson was going to be the Swedish Pronger. Brunnstrum and Leino were supposed to be better than most of the forwards the Wings had.

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I must admit, I also like to get caught up in the circus that comes as soon as the season ends and into mid-July - excited about all of the potential names available, and where they would fit into our lineup. Unfortunately, this team probably made its biggest splash (in years) in free agency last year and based on the results, may be hesitant to do so again this year. We signed basically the two biggest names on the market (outside of Clarkson and Horton) and finished in 8th and played 5 post-season games. Yes, I know about the injury situation - but one of the biggest injury concerns was the guy we signed on July 5th...

Lets be honest - we are not getting Weber, we are not getting Kesler, we are not getting Spezza or Thornton and we probably aren't getting Tyler Myers either.

I really hope we don't throw the cheque book at Niskanen either.

Realistically, my best case scenario this season for this team is to sign Dan Boyle to a 2 year contract.

If health is something that cant be counted on or against, I have to stick with this group of forwards because when healthy and with a big summer, they should by dynamite.

TOP 6

KRONWALL - SMITH

DEKEYSER - BOYLE

ERICSSON - MARCHENKO

I would then use Kindl, Andersson, and Tatar (who has a right handed twin ready to play in Pulkkinen) as trade bait to fetch a bigger name that may be available this summer or during the season.

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I'm not a baseball guy so I can't comment on the first guy, however I never had huge expectations of any of the other guys.

I was one of the few here that always thought Ericsson would grow into a top 4 shutdown guy, but I never had the expectations of him becoming anything like a Chris Pronger. I never had huge expectations of either Brunnstrom or Brunner when they came here. I always seen them as 3rd line support guys. Same goes for Leino. I still remember his first NHL goal and everyone was salivating, saying that he is the next big thing. I never seen it. Also, all three of these guys were undrafted players signed as free agents and Ericsson was the last pick in his draft year. How often do those type players turn into all-stars? Not very often... The guys that I am saying will have great careers as top line guys were all drafted in the first two rounds. Mantha (20th), Smith (27th) and Sproul (55th). All of whom, have dominated leagues prior to playing in the NHL. There is a much better chance they become all-star caliber players then anyone you mentioned.

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Much as some of us would like to say farewell to Kindl and Andersson, neither guy has much trade value, especially not in a package for a big name. Teams would look at that as a good second-line scorer (Tatar), a marginal fourth-liner (Andersson) and a seventh defenceman (Kindl), so it wouldn't bring much back.

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Much as some of us would like to say farewell to Kindl and Andersson, neither guy has much trade value, especially not in a package for a big name. Teams would look at that as a good second-line scorer (Tatar), a marginal fourth-liner (Andersson) and a seventh defenceman (Kindl), so it wouldn't bring much back.

Kindl has some decent value I reckon due to his being a former first round pick who had a good season 2 years ago and showed his potential at the NHL level. Could easily be marketed as a guy who just needs a change of scenery and a different coach. Andersson though, I agree with you on.

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I would be more willing to move promising prospect Xavier Ouellet then Smith. I know that Smith would be more enticing to other teams but I would dangle Ouellet and Tatar plus picks for a decent trade.

Players / Prospects that I would be offering in potential trades.

Tatar, Andersson, Kindl, Ouellet, and of course the fillers with little to no value right now, Ferraro, Almquist, plus picks

Defensemen that I would be targeting as UFA signings in order.

Matt Niskanen, Tom Gilbert, Dan Boyle, Anton Stralman, Derek Morris.

Agree with you on all of those trade pieces. I guess I think the prices are going to be a bit higher.

IF we're trading with Buffalo.

Buffalo is going to want players and prospects over picks as they don't need anymore picks.

At this point over the next two years as they have the following:

2014: #2 pick overall and they pick first in each subsequent round.

In round 2 they have their own pick at #31 plus two additional picks at #39 and #49

The only round they don't have a pick in is the 4th round.

2015: Their own pick in the first, plus the Islander's 1st rounder, plus St. Louis' 1st rounder.

Without much doubt, both of their pick and the Islander's pick will be slot in somewhere in the 1-5 position, maybe as low as #8.

In the second round, they have their own pick plus the Islander's pick.

The draft cupboard is stocked for the future. They want players that can play now. Grow with the team.

That's why I think if we want Ehrhoff, it's going to cost us Smith and additional players/prospects.

I'm willing to pay that price.

I'm high on Niskanen, but I'm not sold on Boyle.

In all honestly, I'm over Holland's aging vet stop-gap maneuver.

Boyle's going to command too much money and if Holland is going to overpay, I'd rather it be for Niskanen with some term. Pay Niskanen! Pay him, Kenny!

For the rest, I'm okay with all of them...

...as third pairing guys to go with a kid which means that we've still got to make a trade for a top flight defenseman

In a dream world, KH would trade for Ehrhoff and grab Niskanen.

Kronner - Ehrhoff

DeKe - Niskanen

Ericsson - Marchenko

Lash/[kid]

In my dreamiest of dreams, we'd somehow retain Smith as well (Go ahead, laugh at me. I'm practically asking for it.)

Kronner - Ehrhoff

Deke - Niskanen

Ericsson - Smith

Kid

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Why would you not ****** up a 24 year old big power forward who can play center and wing coming off a 34 goal 79 point season and his 26 year old big physical shot blocking defenseman brother?

BTW, s n a t c h is blocked.

Great point. Most of LGW would be thrilled if he developed into a player of close caliber to Jamie Benn. It'll probably take him 2-3 years to hit PPG. What Benn has that Mantha apparently doesn't is consistent compete level and great leadership ability. Benn does not go invisible and Babcock singled him out at the Olympics for his strong performance.

....unfortunately this isn't NHL 14

Edited by anthonyn66

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Mantha was labled inconsistent two years ago when he was just a teenager. He has been working on that area of his game and it has shown. He only went a handful of games this past season without a point and was putting up on average, over two points per game. If that isn't consistent, I'm not sure what is. Also he was an alternate captain for the Foreurs this past season, so does show leadership qualities as well...

Edited by krsmith17
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In my dreamiest of dreams, we'd somehow retain Smith as well (Go ahead, laugh at me. I'm practically asking for it.)

Kronner - Ehrhoff

Deke - Niskanen

Ericsson - Smith

Kid

That dream turns into a nightmare in two years when every single D-man on the roster is still under contract and we have Sproul, Ouellet, Backman, and Marchenko ready to go.

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That dream turns into a nightmare in two years when every single D-man on the roster is still under contract and we have Sproul, Ouellet, Backman, and Marchenko ready to go.

So then at that point you trade or waive the weakest link. I really don't see how people perceive this as a bad thing...

DEPTH IS YOUR FRIEND. Our defensive prospects are not even close to "over-ripened" so in a year or two if they can EARN a spot then they will.

e_prime and krsmith17 like this

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From nhltraderumors.com

The Senators want a player, prospect and a first round pick for Jason Spezza. The Ducks and Blues could be good fits.

Seems to be a tad high unless it can be a kid tier prospect or player.

I'd do like Tatar pulk and this years first.

But idk what exactly they want obviously. And this is where ken holland is failing IMO. Trade for him and a like 4 year extension be perfect!!!

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From nhltraderumors.com

The Senators want a player, prospect and a first round pick for Jason Spezza. The Ducks and Blues could be good fits.

Seems to be a tad high unless it can be a kid tier prospect or player.

I'd do like Tatar pulk and this years first.

But idk what exactly they want obviously. And this is where ken holland is failing IMO. Trade for him and a like 4 year extension be perfect!!!

I just don't see Ottawa trading with us... Murray/Melnyk would not do that to their fanbase.

Alfie AND Spezza going to a divisional rival within a year of each other? It just makes no sense.

krsmith17 likes this

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If we get a top-18 player back for Kindl -- a guy who will dress night after night, either forward or D -- I will be very surprised. I don't think GMs are dumb enough to buy into the "change of scenery" line. Sure, someone will be willing to take on an experienced d-man, but they won't give up much for him, IMO.

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From nhltraderumors.com

The Senators want a player, prospect and a first round pick for Jason Spezza. The Ducks and Blues could be good fits.

Seems to be a tad high unless it can be a kid tier prospect or player.

I'd do like Tatar pulk and this years first.

But idk what exactly they want obviously. And this is where ken holland is failing IMO. Trade for him and a like 4 year extension be perfect!!!

That's mental, precisely for the fact that Spezza only has 1 year left on his deal. That wouldn't work for us, especially considering we need D more than we do up front, and we've (hopefully) got a healthy Weiss for a full season. Even then, I don't think Spezza is worth quite that.

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