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Shaman

Was Legwand worth it?

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Negotiating in bad faith? Huh? How would you prove we knew about some secret desire jarnkrok had to go to Sweden and we prevented the Preds from hearing about it when it was discussed in the news at the time of the trade?

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My god who cares about a streak. It's cool don't get me wrong but what's better.

Braves winning the division like 20 straight years AND INE CHAMPIONSHIP or the Yankees who have like 27.

You don't play sports to JUST make the playoffs. It's all about the championships. Now if your Columbus and you make playoffs...ya you can be excited cause you haven't experienced it before.

I'm a wings steelers tigers and michigan fan. It's championship or bust every year. I watched michigan lose their streak. Ya it sucked...but who cares EVERYONE experiences a transition at some point. CHAMPIONSHIP OR BUST.

The Wings management cares.

I also think that after 23 years, you don't give up on such an impressive streak when your team supposedly has good depth in the minors. If trading away one prospect ruins this team's future, the team is in a lot more trouble than any of us knows.

No one's saying he's Zetterberg. They're saying he could ultimately rise to that level. That's his projection, and I don't think it's very far off. The issue, of course, is that the Wings' prospect development is second to none, so I'm not sure he's going to reach his full potential in Nashville's system. Then everyone will say SEE. HE'S NOT ZETTERBERG. YOU FOOLS.

This is a little wishy-washy. He "could ultimately rise" to Zetterberg's level, but probably not in the Nashville system.

As for the comparisons, someone named Jarnkrok "Zetterberg 2.0" just last night on these boards. Not only will the young man with 12 NHL games become as good as Z, he will become a new and improved version! Look out Wayne Gretzky's records!

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Negotiating in bad faith? Huh? How would you prove we knew about some secret desire jarnkrok had to go to Sweden and we prevented the Preds from hearing about it when it was discussed in the news at the time of the trade?

People were saying he was considering going back to Sweden, within minutes of the trade going through. I don't think it's true, but if he does go to Sweden, I would say that is pretty good evidence that someone was aware of his intentions. I think the whole going to Sweden thing was to take heat off of the front-office. A lot of people use Jarnkrok's potential exit as justification for the trade. That's why I addressed the possibility of bad faith.

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On the contrary, there are people here saying he is Zetterberg 2.0. I could quote about 8 posts easily in this thread from users who geniunely believe he is and are saying so. There is a big difference in the wording, which is key. You put it very accurately in that he has the potential. To say without a doubt that he is an elite player is really a desperate assumption at this stage.

As you so elequantly pointed out though, the farm systems are entirely different. That does have a factor in his development.

From my standpoint, there are players that do well in one organization and then do poorly. Look at Jonathan Cheechoo who won the goal scoring race back in the day. Now he is mired in the AHL probably for good. Its tough to tell who is going to pan out. He isn't Zetterberg 2.0. He may develop into that, but it won't be established for a couple years at least.

Well, I think the "He is Zetterberg 2.0" statement - if people are actually making it - is actually fair enough in the larger context of this debate. The point being, here's a guy who projects as another Zetterberg. And we traded him. For a few games of service from David Legwand. If another GM had pulled that trigger, my guess is everyone here would be laughing at him.

Moving your top prospect is a big deal, especially when it's obviously a last-minute panic move. How many times did Holland say we wouldn't be sacrificing key pieces of our future for short-term payoff?

It stinks. We basically have to re-sign Legwand.

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Well, I think the "He is Zetterberg 2.0" statement - if people are actually making it - is actually fair enough in the larger context of this debate. The point being, here's a guy who projects as another Zetterberg. And we traded him. For a few games of service from David Legwand. If another GM had pulled that trigger, my guess is everyone here would be laughing at him.

Moving your top prospect is a big deal, especially when it's obviously a last-minute panic move. How many times did Holland say we wouldn't be sacrificing key pieces of our future for short-term payoff?

It stinks. We basically have to re-sign Legwand.

You answered your own question. He wasn't a key piece of our future and had no future here

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Depends how you look at it. I believe he was gotten because the Red Wings wanted the playoffs streak to continue. In that sense, getting Legwand was a success. Yes Nyquist played unreal and was the sole reason we made it, along with the other kids, some clutch performances by Alfie and good goaltending. But there is no way we made the playoffs had it not been for getting a guy like Legwand to fill the top centerman position while we had FIVE of our centerman injured. Say what you want about Legwand, but he worked extremely hard almost every game and, ultimately got the job done, that is helping the team make the playoffs.

The problem came after that. Babs mis-used Legwand once we got Pav back by playing him in the 4th line role, which made him ineffective. If Babs plans on doing that, then there is no point in keeping Legwand around. But initially, getting Legwand was successful for getting us into the playoffs. But as Zetty correctly said yesterday, just getting in is not good enough for him. He said lately the team has not gotten deep enough in the playoffs and that needs to change.

So like I said, it depends how you look at things.

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This will come down as one of the worst trades that Detroit has made in the last 30 years. I do predict that Jarnkrok will end up being a premier centre in the NHL. Shame on Holland. shame on Babcock for wanting him. If the Wings don't resign him, the trade is even worse.

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You answered your own question. He wasn't a key piece of our future and had no future here

He was our best prospect. He had a very bright future here, until he didn't, because he was traded. He was essentially our only high-end center prospect, and he's right-handed. If a center logjam was an issue, he could've been moved to the wing, which Babcock likes doing with young, inexperienced centers anyway.

My question was, How many times did Holland say he wouldn't sacrifice futures for the short-term? (More to the point, maybe, How many times has Holland talked up the importance of drafting and building from within and developing what you have in the pipeline? You know what I'm saying.) By trading Jarnkrok for Legwand, he moved our crown jewel for...David Legwand. And very possibly only a few games from him.

Like I've said elsewhere, I'm not looking to s*** on Holland for any and every little reason. But, so far, this deal was not worth it. If, however, Legwand re-ups with us and goes on to be a key piece for a few seasons and we push deep into the playoffs, I'll feel a lot better about it.

Jarnkrok is a very, very good player. I've been high on him for some time now.

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You risk losing players at the end of the contract when you trade for them. The Preds knew the terms of Jarnkrok's deal when they made the deal. Ift there were whispers about his intentions to return to Sweden loud enough to reach the media...I'm sure Nashville probably heard them too. .

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Nyquist, Smith and Mantha, are they future of this team?

Tatar?

If they are: they were all offered in different trade scenarios...

Those guys don't play center. We had too many centers already, he wouldn't have gotten a shot here. Look at legwand, career 2nd line center ended up on the fourth line as a wing.

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u

o

Nashville is not that far away from icing a dangerous team, their goaltending and D is set they'll get a very good offensive forward in this draft and some young players are on their way.

Nashville is a mess right now, the only reason they excelled as they did at times was Trotz could make Chicken Salad out of Chicken Crap. Their organization is a mess right now, Trotz is gone, the GM has one foot out the door and the ownership is possibly tired of paying Weber his 14 mill a year. (He gets a check for 13 mill by July, then 1 mill for his salary) Their prospects are all the grinder type (except for Forsberg and Jarnkrok) sure they got the better end of the deal, but saying they are dangerous I don't agree with at all...

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Not even close. Mantha, Mrazrek, Jurco.

I'm not just making stuff up or talking out of my butt. For the past couple of years, when people would talk up our pipeline, Jarnkrok would usually be regarded as The One. He has a lot in common with Zetterberg. He doesn't have Mantha's size or mutant scoring prowess, he's not a goalie, he doesn't have Jurco's size or shifty hands, but what he does have is elite sense, very good all-around ability, that Zetterberg-esque knack for holding the puck and making plays out of nothing, and tremendous upside. I've seen him play. He's extremely impressive. (I have no real reason to be defending him. It's not like I'm especially biased about this. If I didn't think he was all that, I'd have no problem saying so.)

Saying he wasn't even close to being our best prospect is revisionist history after the fact. Same thing with "He had no future here, he was never gonna crack the lineup." What if Nyquist or Tatar had been moved? People would be saying the same thing. Hell, some people were saying that neither had a future here because too small not enough room blah blah blah.

Datsyuk won't be around much longer. Zetterberg is a warrior, but he's on the wrong side of 30. No one knows if Weiss will pan out. Legwand probably won't re-sign. Sheahan probably ends up a solid third-liner. Helm is a third-liner. Andersson is a fourth-liner. Glendening is a fourth-liner. Jarnkrok projects as a top-end two-way centerman, possibly one you can build a team - or at least a top-six unit - around. Guys like that are very hard to come by. I'm not talking mystical voodoo or rocket science here, guys. I'm saying we lost a guy who, a few months ago, was the face of the next generation. He struggled in the first half of this season, but he was adjusting to the NA game. He seems to have figured it out, and now I expect him to get better and better and better.

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I don't really know if Jarnkrok will live up to his potential. Everything I've read about him has said that he'll be ready in a few years. After multiple years of reading that I just don't think he'll be the star he could have been.

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People compared Jarnkrok to Hank more for style than anything else I think. If the NHL or Sweden thing was true, they weren't going to guarantee him a spot so they would have risked losing him for nothing at that point. Trading him made sense. Further, the whole "best prospect" thing is over rated. Take a look at some of Redwinscentral.com past rankings. A lot of top 5 prospects are either bottom 6 forwards or 3rd pair D or aren't even in the NHL.

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It's all moot, though. Whether he was our best prospect or just one of our better prospects, the point is that the return for Calle Jarnkrok and a second-round pick was a few games from David Legwand (unless he re-signs. Though, even then....) The only way that doesn't hurt right now is if we rationalize it. "He was gonna go back to Sweden anyway." "He's not that good anyway." "We have too many centers anyway." "We need to get bigger anyway."

meh

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I'm saying we lost a guy who, a few months ago, was the face of the next generation. He struggled in the first half of this season, but he was adjusting to the NA game. He seems to have figured it out, and now I expect him to get better and better and better.

I don't believe he was the "face of the next generation" at all. In order to be the face of the next generation, he has to be seen. I recognize he was a prospect, but thats all he was is a prospect. Maybe, just maybe an above average prospect. We have other prospects that are more "the face of the next generation". Players like Jurco, Tatar, Nyquist, Mrazek, and Mantha are players I would say are those next level prospects.

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