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Kane & Toews Sign Identical 8-year, $10.5M AAV Extensions


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#41 StayClassy

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 10:31 AM

I wonder how Keith feels right now. As a UFA his salary could hit the stratosphere, but now he's stuck making literally half of his fellow leaders on the team for similar term, and is their second highest paid Dman. Cheers to Keith for being a team player. 

 

As for next year Chicago has 15 players signed (10F 3D 2G) and just a little over 3mil in cap room.


Edited by StayClassy, 10 July 2014 - 10:36 AM.

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#42 arag

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 11:02 AM

Chicago will be taken apart next year.

#43 Shaman

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 11:18 AM

I wonder how Keith feels right now. As a UFA his salary could hit the stratosphere, but now he's stuck making literally half of his fellow leaders on the team for similar term, and is their second highest paid Dman. Cheers to Keith for being a team player. 

 

As for next year Chicago has 15 players signed (10F 3D 2G) and just a little over 3mil in cap room.

 

 

Chicago will be taken apart next year.

 

 

If the cap rises 10% next season (which is about the middle of the estimates rumored of 7 to 15% rise) the cap will be around 76 million dollars. That will give Chicago 9 million. If they move Hossa or Sharp they will have 14-15 million in cap space with 7 spots to fill. Not the worst position to be in.


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#44 haroldsnepsts

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 12:29 PM

I wonder how Keith feels right now. As a UFA his salary could hit the stratosphere, but now he's stuck making literally half of his fellow leaders on the team for similar term, and is their second highest paid Dman. Cheers to Keith for being a team player. 

 

As for next year Chicago has 15 players signed (10F 3D 2G) and just a little over 3mil in cap room.

 

It's hard for me to feel sorry for Keith.  He's overrated as a defenseman and a dirty player.  

 

Don't get me wrong, I think he's a very good Dman, but 2 time norris winner??  If 5 years ago you would've told me Keith would win 2 Norris trophies and Weber wouldn't have any, I would've thought you were nuts.


Chicago will be taken apart next year.

 

that's what we said last time. 



#45 wings87

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 12:55 PM

The Owners/League never learn, do they? I guess they can just continue to give out ridiculous contracts, while raising the cap, and in a few years ***** and moan until another lockout occurs- pulling their ass out of the fire once again. This has occurred 3 times on Bettman's watch and it's destined to happen again if this continues. There should either be no spending limits or strict ones, the system they have now is a complete joke. 


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#46 frankgrimes

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 02:21 PM

The Owners/League never learn, do they? I guess they can just continue to give out ridiculous contracts, while raising the cap, and in a few years ***** and moan until another lockout occurs- pulling their ass out of the fire once again. This has occurred 3 times on Bettman's watch and it's destined to happen again if this continues. There should either be no spending limits or strict ones, the system they have now is a complete joke. 

 

They aren't ridiculous you want two of the best players in the game, gotta pay and it's not their fault that longterm contracts are no longer allowed.

 

Put yourself in Toews shoes, he would have gotten maximum and left money on the table so I don't know what some are expecting. To me 1.5 million per year is a huge discount, one I wouldn't have given.

 

As for Keith: great defenseman yes but overall Weber and I would argue even Suter are better, because they are playing a more complete overall game.


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#47 krsmith17

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 02:43 PM

Frank, I'm pretty certain everyone understands that they got "market value". But the problem is, for myself anyway, that I don't agree what the market dictates that players get. I don't think any one man is worth $10.5 million dollars per year. The money that these guys make (some are still kids), in my mind, is beyond ridiculous.



#48 BottleOfSmoke

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 02:58 PM

What I wanna know is - will Hank's beard have a chance at the Hockey Hall of Fame?
 
If Hank makes it - I'll assume his beard will follow within a few years?


No way Hank gets in before his beard. Bet.

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#49 frankgrimes

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 03:01 PM

Frank, I'm pretty certain everyone understands that they got "market value". But the problem is, for myself anyway, that I don't agree what the market dictates that players get. I don't think any one man is worth $10.5 million dollars per year. The money that these guys make (some are still kids), in my mind, is beyond ridiculous.

 

I understand that point believe me but if you compare to some less demanding, physical sports and what the guys there are making it's almost nothing. I can tell you one thing for sure, if the Wings would have had  a superstar like that to sign now, the caphit wouldn't be much different, wheter we like it or not it's the truth that's exactly why longer contract length was a nice loophole :(

 

Chicago only had 1 alternative: letting them go and that would have set back their franchise not only in terms of performance but also in terms of recognition and UFAs rwilling to sign there.


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#50 Euro_Twins

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 03:44 PM

 
I understand that point believe me but if you compare to some less demanding, physical sports and what the guys there are making it's almost nothing. I can tell you one thing for sure, if the Wings would have had  a superstar like that to sign now, the caphit wouldn't be much different, wheter we like it or not it's the truth that's exactly why longer contract length was a nice loophole :(
 
Chicago only had 1 alternative: letting them go and that would have set back their franchise not only in terms of performance but also in terms of recognition and UFAs rwilling to sign there.


You can't compare baseball football basketball or soccer go hockey no matter how you phrase it. Those sports all make way more money than hockey. The fact is the owners lock the players out demanding they make less money then turn around right after and give them even more money.

For what the teams make in hockey, those two players make too much money, yeah they are good, but they aren't the absolute best players in the league, Sven though they are paid as such.

Consider this, Crawford an excruciatingly average goaltender makes $6million a year, why? Because they won the cup so why not? Chicago seems to way overvalue their players and it will be their downfall. They can't keep giving every player top 5 pay in the league if they win a Stanley cup. You would think they would have learned that after 2010, guess not.

Toews and Kane are worth $8-8.5 a year, not 10.5 and definitely not 12. Well if the cap is going up, we better give nyquist an 8 year $50million contract when his expires next season...

#51 wings87

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 03:52 PM

They aren't ridiculous you want two of the best players in the game, gotta pay and it's not their fault that longterm contracts are no longer allowed.
 
Put yourself in Toews shoes, he would have gotten maximum and left money on the table so I don't know what some are expecting. To me 1.5 million per year is a huge discount, one I wouldn't have given.
 
As for Keith: great defenseman yes but overall Weber and I would argue even Suter are better, because they are playing a more complete overall game.


I think there's some misunderstanding, it's a great deal for both of them. It's not a great deal for the team or the league.

The first lockout happened because the league and owners wanted spending limits after that the cap started climbing and the players were getting more money so there was another lockout. Which once again cut salaries and imposed spending limits- and now ones again the cap is spiraling out of control and so are the salaries. So my point is market value or not what exactly was the point of the lockouts? The owners essentially took money from players with existing contracts and are now giving that money out in new contracts. There should either be a hard cap, no cap, or get rid of the team cap and just cap the length and salary of each contract. But the owners want to be able to do what they want and have restrictions, it's a flawed system that's leading the league into another lockout.

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#52 wings4thecup06

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Posted 10 July 2014 - 05:35 PM

The salary cap system as it is right now would be ok if the ceiling and the floor weren't tied to league revenues. It's so stupid and I don't see how anyone isn't pointing it out. Think about it. The league has gradually expanded its income since the first lockout of this generation in 2004 and as a result the cap goes up every single year on both ends. This forces the small market teams (like Florida) to do exactly what they did this offseason just to reach the floor - give out ridiculous contracts to mid/lower level players who end up getting vastly overpaid. 

 

The contracts being given out are frankly, a joke in my mind and all that has been lost from 2 lockouts has been wasted. The problem I think I find is that even though I hate the NHL for doing all of this and the stupidity involved, I truly love the game too much to walk away. 

 

These contracts though are not just as a result of the salary cap being tied to league revenues. It also has to do with how there is more parity throughout the league which means that everyone is clamouring to improve and spend. Thus, bidding wars for free agents are more intense (it feels that way), which drives the price up. Another reason is clever marketing by agents, and owners who are forcing their GMs to do something to get their team better. It's also why we're seeing a lot of buyouts.

 

The whole system is frankly, a joke. It won't change either until the league actually starts losing money. 


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#53 Wing Across The Pond

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Posted 11 July 2014 - 02:14 PM

This whole situation is loyalty. We have the game half right, we're loyal to our players wholeheartedly, 100%, and that will never change. But the 21st Century sports loyal is reciprocal. I don't think this is really a case of an organisation shelling out over the top cash and handcuffing themselves, they really wouldn't do that to the detriment of their long term future, but it more a show of "we're loyal to them, they're loyal to us".

 

Like I said, we've got it half right. We love being loyal to our players, helping them out at every opportunity and often giving them good money. Yet where it falls down in the modern game is that the players we re/sign can't guarantee 100% loyalty to us, either through health/fitness, or lack of game or drive or motivation. My soccer team over here in Britain, Brentford FC, was taken over a few seasons ago and have improved year on year until they achieved their initial goal of promotion to the next tier of competition. The main thing that was stated throughout those years was "we shall only sign players who are 100% committed to Brentford FC". This year we offered contracts to a few of our free agents that we were committed to, they accepted, yet also entered talks with other teams. We chose not to pursue these players further, despite their past with the club, because they weren't committed. I see a lot of that here.

 

They wanted $12m, Hawks showed their loyalty by offering them increased terms, but asked theirs by offering them $1.5m less than they asked for. Full term as well, just confirms that. If they can keep that going with the rest of the roster I don't see it being any issue for them. They may ask players to stay at the same, or potentially less, money and if they say no then goodbye. They'll find someone loyal to the cause. That way it won't matter if they cap rises, they just need to find the right pieces and go hard at them.

 

This is what we should be doing. Reciprocal loyalty. Unfortunately we show loyalty to people who can't reciprocate - Cleary with his health, Franzen with his spotty play, to name some whipping boys. Ericsson showed vast improvements and was rewarded, Quincey showed none yet was rewarded also. That's the problem. The fear we now have at losing the people we've got is leaving us behind. Good on Chicago.

 

(P.S. Kane isn't worth $10.5m... jeeeeez! I'd take Toews for that though. He's their Stevie... blasphemy I know)


Edited by Wing Across The Pond, 11 July 2014 - 02:16 PM.

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#54 Hockeytown0001

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 12:14 AM

Looks like Kane needed some extra help in buying booze for his college "visits". 


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#55 number9

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 12:30 AM

Glad our 2 best forwards are like an entire Allstar cheaper

#56 Hockeytown0001

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Posted 13 July 2014 - 01:14 AM


"All done? Five bucks." - Pavel Datsyuk after an interview
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#57 Barrie

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 01:03 PM

The downside of winning is thinking you have to keep guys instead of moving forward. Since there's a cap, and at that price, if I was Chicago I would have signed Toews, but let Kane become a UFA. Having $21 Million tied up in 2 players is insane! Looking at Chicago's cap situation, they better win this year, because a fire sale will happen next off season.

 

Those contracts have just increased and already over inflated UFA market. Drafting and developing your own players just became even more important!


Edited by Barrie, 16 July 2014 - 01:04 PM.

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#58 toby91_ca

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 02:42 PM

From what I have seen from some people talking about how the owners are stupid and just driving salaries up again and again and tying the cap to revenues creates a problem, etc......It might be you guys that don't fully understand how it works.  In terms of the cap and floor, I'd leave that to the owner's to figure out amongst themselves (I.e. some teams doing really well and some teams losing money....they need to figure out how to share revenues effectively).

 

At the player cost level, it really doesn't matter what contracts are signed, the players will always get 50% (or whatever the number is) of league revenues.  As an example, if everyone in the league signed a contract for $500,000 a year and league revenues came in at $3B...every player in the league would actually earn about $4.3M ($3B / 30 teams / 23 players per team).  The same is true if every player in the league signed for $10 million....they'd all be giving money back to the league (that is what the escrow system is meant to take care of).  A particular player's contracted salary is simply used as a measure against all other player contracts to determine how much of the pie (revenues allocated to players) that he gets.  I think this notation of salaries being driven up is a bit on the false side.

 

The bigger problem I have with these contracts though is that I would find it extremely difficult trying to argue why these 2 guys should be the highest paid players in the league.



#59 SaCkaveli20

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Posted 16 July 2014 - 10:39 PM

Im guessing we'll get Hossa back when he's.........41? 

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#60 frankgrimes

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Posted 17 July 2014 - 02:33 AM

From what I have seen from some people talking about how the owners are stupid and just driving salaries up again and again and tying the cap to revenues creates a problem, etc......It might be you guys that don't fully understand how it works.  In terms of the cap and floor, I'd leave that to the owner's to figure out amongst themselves (I.e. some teams doing really well and some teams losing money....they need to figure out how to share revenues effectively).

 

At the player cost level, it really doesn't matter what contracts are signed, the players will always get 50% (or whatever the number is) of league revenues.  As an example, if everyone in the league signed a contract for $500,000 a year and league revenues came in at $3B...every player in the league would actually earn about $4.3M ($3B / 30 teams / 23 players per team).  The same is true if every player in the league signed for $10 million....they'd all be giving money back to the league (that is what the escrow system is meant to take care of).  A particular player's contracted salary is simply used as a measure against all other player contracts to determine how much of the pie (revenues allocated to players) that he gets.  I think this notation of salaries being driven up is a bit on the false side.

 

The bigger problem I have with these contracts though is that I would find it extremely difficult trying to argue why these 2 guys should be the highest paid players in the league.

 

Toews is easily a top 5 player in the league, also Weber and Crosby are making more than him for the next few years. In 2 years Stamkos is going to shatter their caphit and might even break the 12 aav. There was absolutely no way the Blackhawks would have let either one of them go, both would have gotten maximum deals for their hometown teams and Toews also took less as crazy as that sounds, Kane may be a bit overpaid but whatever.


Edited by frankgrimes, 17 July 2014 - 02:41 AM.

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