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MabusIncarnate

11/28 GDT - Red Wings @ Devils - 7:00 PM EST

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Smith will not be back tonight, he will be evaluated on Sunday to determine whether or not he will be in the lineup for the afternoon game on Sunday against Vancouver.

So I'm assuming it will be the same lineup tonight as Wednesday, (hopefully Andersson and Lashoff remain out...) but maybe some tweaks in the lines. I know we won our last game but I really hope he jumbles it up a little...

I'd like to see something like this... (the same lines I've been clamoring for since the start of the season...)

Nyquist - Zetterberg - Franzen

Tatar - Datsyuk - Jurco

Helm - Sheahan - Weiss

Miller - Glendening - Abdelkader

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Barnes, I disagree. Despite their production, I don't think they played that well as a unit. They got some lucky breaks that resulted in some goals but it's not like they were giving the other team fits the entire game. I don't recall a single shift where they had the Flyers hemmed in the their zone for more than 20-30 seconds.

The only thing I know for certain is that there is about a zero percent chance Babcock demotes Abdelkader to the 4th line, and probably rightfully so. I can't deny that he had played great, he really has, but I still think there are better options for our top 6 going forward.

Edited by krsmith17

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If there are better options available to better your team, you do it. Datsyuk was just being eased in on the third line, you can't expect him to stay down there. Jurco was better than fine on the forth line, but he is not a forth liner. In my opinion, Jurco needs to be getting top six minutes in Detroit or top line minutes in Grand Rapids. He is a goal scorer, not a grinder, so he needs to be put in that type of role.

I'd say I'd be surprised if those lines stick through another game but not much Babcock does anymore surprises me...

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I think rolling three lines gives the team some much needed depth. I dont view Sheahan, Tatar and Jurco as a legitimate NHL second line, more like a third. I also dont think Jurco belongs in a top six role in the NHL yet. On the other hand I dont think he needs to play top six to develop at NHL level.

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Barnes, I'm not sure if that was in response to me, but I never said anything about Tatar - Sheahan - Jurco being our second line... Rolling 3 lines (I'd even go as far as to say 4) is the definition of depth up front, so which one of my top 3 lines isn't a capable line? I agree that Jurco probably isn't ready for a top 6 role in the NHL yet, which is why I've been advocating sending him back down to Grand Rapids for some more seasoning. I've been saying that since before this season even started. I disagree that he should be playing on the 4th line in a grinding role in the NHL.

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IF every thing goes well... big if there, I would love to see something along these lines in the near future:

Z-Datsyuk-Abdelkader
Tatar-Weiss-Nyquist
Mule-Sheahan-Jurco
Miller-Helm-Glendening

I think the 1st and 4th would be very, very solid lines. The tricky part comes with the 2nd a 3rd lines. You could swap Mule and Tatar, but I really think Weiss and Tatar could/will click. I know Tatar's already got some chemistry with Sheahan - perhaps it's just a gut feeling, but I think those two would do well together. For some reason, Mule on Weiss wing just feels like it would kind of lag? I guess?

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Barnes, I'm not sure if that was in response to me, but I never said anything about Tatar - Sheahan - Jurco being our second line... Rolling 3 lines (I'd even go as far as to say 4) is the definition of depth up front, so which one of my top 3 lines isn't a capable line? I agree that Jurco probably isn't ready for a top 6 role in the NHL yet, which is why I've been advocating sending him back down to Grand Rapids for some more seasoning. I've been saying that since before this season even started. I disagree that he should be playing on the 4th line in a grinding role in the NHL.

Is he really grinding if he's scoring?

I be reluctant to send Jurco to GRs and I don't think he needs to play in the top six to justify his place on the team. Jurco's an important guy when he's playing well. This team gets smaller and slower when he's not in the line-up.

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Barnes, I'm not sure if that was in response to me, but I never said anything about Tatar - Sheahan - Jurco being our second line... Rolling 3 lines (I'd even go as far as to say 4) is the definition of depth up front, so which one of my top 3 lines isn't a capable line? I agree that Jurco probably isn't ready for a top 6 role in the NHL yet, which is why I've been advocating sending him back down to Grand Rapids for some more seasoning. I've been saying that since before this season even started. I disagree that he should be playing on the 4th line in a grinding role in the NHL.

Your lines are fine but I dont think Babcock will break up Sheahan and Tatar suddenly, after pairing them for most of the season. This is why I want to keep the Weiss, Helm and Datsyuk line for at least a few more shifts. If that line is succesful, it will give us three solid scoring lines (and a checking line). Abdelkader can play with Sheahan/Tatar and I'm fine with Jurco on the fourth.

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Does Babs still line match with Jurco on the 4th? Might be good for him to play with two responsible and hardworking line mates. He can simplify his game and maybe add some more grit. Plus anytime our 4th line scores it's a huge bonus. It's not like our 4th line plays 5 minutes a night he gets a good opportunity for ice time

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Zombo, he scored in his one game that he has played in that role so far, that doesn't necessarily mean he will be "scoring". Our forth line, like any forth line, is expected to grind down the other team, be hard on the forecheck and just keep the puck out of our net. How much scoring is Jurco realistically going to do on a line with Glendening and Miller? Regardless, I don't see Babcock keeping him down there much longer, and for good reason. It's not his game, he should not be put in that role... Also, I absolutely think he needs more time in the minors, but I seem to be alone in thinking that, aside from one or two others on here...


Joe, he absolutely gets ice time playing on the forth line but how much success can he be expected to have playing with Glendening and Miller?

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Zombo, he scored in his one game that he has played in that role so far, that doesn't necessarily mean he will be "scoring". Our forth line, like any forth line, is expected to grind down the other team, be hard on the forecheck and just keep the puck out of our net. How much scoring is Jurco realistically going to do on a line with Glendening and Miller? Regardless, I don't see Babcock keeping him down there much longer, and for good reason. It's not his game, he should not be put in that role... Also, I absolutely think he needs more time in the minors, but I seem to be alone in thinking that, aside from one or two others on here...

Joe, he absolutely gets ice time playing on the forth line but how much success can he be expected to have playing with Glendening and Miller?

But you'd have to be crazy to think that a Jurco 4th won't score way more than an Andersson 4th. Right?

I agree with joeseffP. Jurco needs to get back to skating and banging, two things he excelled at last year. Keeping him on the 4th line with two hardworking grinders is an interseing way to do this. Let him not worry about scoring and get him physicaly engaged. I bet it does wonders for his hands and his overall confidence.

I know you want him playing big minutes in GRs but, IMO, this team needs Jurco in the line-up now, whether it's on the first line of the 4th. Not in GRs.

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Absolutely, which is why I said earlier "hopefully Andersson (and Lashoff) remain out". I think Cleary is a huge upgrade over Andersson. Joakim provides nothing in my opinion, he is much like Cory Emmerton was for us for a couple years. Capable of eating minutes in a crunch for the time being but no real future in the NHL.

I disagree 100% that Jurco needs to "get back to banging". He's third on the team in hits, behind our perennial leader, Abdelkader and Glendening. That's pretty damn good for the style he should be playing. That's exactly why he would do so well on Datsyuk's wing. He can bang like Abby does, but has much better hands to finish on all those opportunities.

Jurco is starting to heat up, which is a great time to get him on a scoring line with Datsyuk and Tatar.


Anyway, no worries. The lines are the exact same as last game.

Nyquist - Zetterberg - Abdelkader

Tatar - Sheahan - Franzen

Helm - Datsyuk - Weiss

Miller - Glendening - Jurco

Kronwall - Ericsson

Quincey - DeKeyser

Ouellet - Kindl

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Zombo, he scored in his one game that he has played in that role so far, that doesn't necessarily mean he will be "scoring".

Jurco is starting to heat up, which is a great time to get him on a scoring line with Datsyuk and Tatar.

If he's scoring, I don't care where he plays. That's the bottom line for me.

I know the 4th line is supposed to grind, be physical, fight, and be hard to play against. But IMO that's a pre-cap notion when you could load up the top six.This team does not have a bonafide, dominant top line. They need balanced scoring from everywhere. All four lines need to chip in. I'd like to give Jurco a few more games to cash in on the chaos Glendenning creates around the net. Lord knows those truck hands of Luke's aren't going to score on their own.

Anyway, you and I usually agree most times and I think we're both fans of the Jurco. Ultimately I see him as a top six winger like you do (I think a future line of Jurco - Sheahan - Mantha would be nassssssssssty). We just have different wishes for how he should be used at this exact moment.

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But that's my point, he won't be scoring on that forth line. There is no way Jurco will be consistently putting up points the way he should be on a line with Glendening and Miller. He scored in his first game on that line and I wouldn't be surprised if he did stick with them (which he most likely won't) if he went the next 5-10 games without a goal. Whereas he's confident and on a little hot streak, if he were put with Pav now, he could build off the past few games and really get rolling.

I completely agree with the need for balanced scoring which is why I think my ideal lines are fairly balanced from top to bottom.

Abdelkader and Glendening have had chemistry in the past and I think they would complement each other quite well, along with Miller. I think Weiss and Helm work well together, centered by Sheahan can be a really solid third line. I love the idea of Pav with the two kids, Jurco and Tats, who have obvious chemistry together. And then there's the top line of Zetterberg, Nyquist and Franzen who have great chemistry as well.

Anyway, like I said, I doubt I will ever see those lines, and I certainly won't tonight...


It looks like Mrazek will be getting the start tonight.

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Sorry but who says you cant score on the 4th line? I remember the grind line being rather successful at scoring and shutting down. In 98 drapes, McCarty and Maltby all put up 13+ goals. I know that was a different time with a different coach that was famous for having players buy in to a particular role. IMO I see Jurco being that role player and not a leader. I have not seen enough out of him to give him a top role this year or last.

Giving Miller and Glendening a trigger might be for the best. For some reason they create a ton of scoring opportunities but can never finish.

My .02

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If if Jurco can get some goals on the fourth line it raises his confidence without having to send him back to gr, its an outside the box solution...

And its not like the fourth line only gets regular fourth line minutes, they won't see as much time in a shut down role, but still playing 15 minutes against NHL quality players IMO is still better for him in the long run.

And let's.

Go.

Wings.

It looks like they'll be rolling the same lines as last game, with the only change being Mrazek in net.

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