2015 Draft

[rick zombo 3,739]

Athanasiou got a broken jaw, couldn't eat solid food for weeks, lost almost 20 lbs., AND missed more games than Mantha. Yet he still managed to work hard every game once he returned. Being injured might excuse the results, but not the lack of effort.

I don't see why people feel the need to constantly make excuses for the Mantha. He was used to streamrolling weaker competition in Juniors, and he learned bad habits, and hasn't unlearned them yet. It doesn't doom him to a career of mediocrity, but he doesn't get a free pass from criticism because he was drafted high and people like the fact that he's big.

To date, Mantha has been soft, lazy, and moderately disappointing.

Some would even say "very, very......"

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

Athanasiou got a broken jaw, couldn't eat solid food for weeks, lost almost 20 lbs., AND missed more games than Mantha. Yet he still managed to work hard every game once he returned. Being injured might excuse the results, but not the lack of effort.

I don't see why people feel the need to constantly make excuses for the Mantha. He was used to streamrolling weaker competition in Juniors, and he learned bad habits, and hasn't unlearned them yet. It doesn't doom him to a career of mediocrity, but he doesn't get a free pass from criticism because he was drafted high and people like the fact that he's big.

To date, Mantha has been soft, lazy, and moderately disappointing.

I'm pretty sure you need your legs to play hockey ? As bad as the jaw injury was you need your legs more to play hockey than your jaw ...I'm no doctor but I'm sure a leg injury could effect his your play on the ice , with a broken jaw after sometime off you put your protection and your good to go

And again don't forget mantha didn't have training camp and exhibition games so when he came back he was already not in playing shape

And he finished with a goal behind athanasiou ... Not like athanasiou blew him out of the water (nothing against athanasiou, like the kid )

Before it was mantha was just good cause he played against 17-18 yr olds and now it's he steamrolled through weaker competition in the juniors ... Well he was named one of the best players at the world junior championships against the best of the juniors , what's the excuse now?

Mantha played in the league he was in ... It was out of his control , ahl is a tougher league and he learned from it and will get better .... Why you already writing him off after a injury ridden first season?

As far as I know without checking drouin didn't light it up and he was 3rd overall and couldnt even get in the lineup during the playoffs .... What a bust

To date mantha's played 60 games ... Far to soon to be judging him ... Don't forget Tatar was in Grand Rapids for 4 years

Edited June 17, 2015 by nyqvististhefuture

[kipwinger 8,528]

I'm pretty sure you need your legs to play hockey ? As bad as the jaw injury was you need your legs more to play hockey than your jaw ...I'm no doctor but I'm sure a leg injury could effect his your play on the ice , with a broken jaw after sometime off you put your protection and your good to go

And again don't forget mantha didn't have training camp and exhibition games so when he came back he was already not in playing shape

And he finished with a goal behind athanasiou ... Not like athanasiou blew him out of the water (nothing against athanasiou, like the kid )

Before it was mantha was just good cause he played against 17-18 yr olds and now it's he steamrolled through weaker competition in the juniors ... Well he was named one of the best players at the world junior championships against the best of the juniors , what's the excuse now?

Mantha played in the league he was in ... It was out of his control , ahl is a tougher league and he learned from it and will get better .... Why you already writing him off after a injury ridden first season?

As far as I know without checking drouin didn't light it up and he was 3rd overall and can't even get in the lineup with tampa bay .... What a bust! Guy can't even get tall !

To date mantha's played 60 games ... Far to soon to be judging him ... Don't forget Tatar was in Grand Rapids for 4 years

Why do you guys keep saying I'm "writing him off". That's not accurate. I'm criticizing him. Those are totally different things.

There's no excuse for not trying. And the knock on Mantha all season was that he didn't show enough effort from game to game. I'm not criticizing him for his point totals (which weren't that bad), I'm criticizing him for being lazy and disinterested.

People keep bringing up his leg, and training camp, as if those things excuse his effort. They don't. His leg, and his conditioning, probably played a part in his modest point totals. They are not, however, an excuse for an inconsistent level of effort and engagement.

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

Why do you guys keep saying I'm "writing him off". That's not accurate. I'm criticizing him. Those are totally different things.

There's no excuse for not trying. And the knock on Mantha all season was that he didn't show enough effort from game to game. I'm not criticizing him for his point totals (which weren't that bad), I'm criticizing him for being lazy and disinterested.

People keep bringing up his leg, and training camp, as if those things excuse his effort. They don't. His leg, and his conditioning, probably played a part in his modest point totals. They are not, however, an excuse for an inconsistent level of effort and engagement.

Alright ... We'll see what he does next season

On another topic .... Just saw on twitter mike reilly cut his teams down to 4 and redwings aren't included ... Not that it changes our draft plan but we really need to draft a few good dmen

[Richdg 267]

At 19/20 he is ahead of guys like Nyquist, tatar, Sheahan etc..... Nyquist and Sheahan were 3 years older when they finally played in GR after their college careers. None of them dramatically out produced mantha in his first year. Yes he needs to work hard and improve. No one disagrees with that. But no one in the organization is questioning his work ethic either. The "lazy" bit is a fan generated tag, nothing more. Go look up the quotes by Blashill. Once mantha was healthy and playing he was "performing as expected" per Blashill. Everyone knows that going from amateur junior hockey to pro hockey is a major adjustment. Some guys do it quickly, others take time. Blashill also beleives Mantha "will become a star". Another quote that can be found man times from this past year. So whom to believe? His coach that believes he will be a star or a fan on the internet? Hmm.....

[frankgrimes 1,836]

What does the unfortunate Mantha injury have to do with the draft thread ? That's right nothing. it's getting tiresome reading through another thread derailing topic.

Fact is Larkin and Mantha are by far the best Wings prospects, hence why other Gms are asking about them and not about some of the others.

As far as the draft is concerned the Wings just have to pick a defender in the first round, yeah center is a need too but right now I think defense is even a bigger one.

[Richdg 267]

Agreed frank. But and this does relate to them, if either one/both are moved for a top pair Dman we do need to go F. I still prefer to go F anyway. I would rather sign/trade for proven vets on the BL than to trust prospects. Kinda like pitching in baseball. You draft pitchers becasue there is a shortage of quality arms. You can always trade for hitters. In hockey goal scoring is a premium.

[kipwinger 8,528]

Playing as expected huh? Fan generated tag huh? Hmmm...if only there were some Jeff Blashill quotes criticizing Mantha's effort and engagement. Oh wait, there are. If you seriously believe Mantha's performing as expected, and that his effort and intensity are there, you've got your head buried in the sand.

"I think Anthony has a skill set to be really good at the NHL level," Jeff Blashill told the Free Press. He needs to change his habit of how he skates every day in games. Because of his elite ability, he could play without moving his feet in juniors. He needs to learn to skate at a more consistent basis, get into puck battles, and when he has puck, skate to attack. If he gets that habit, he will be an elite player."

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nhl/red-wings/2015/05/29/detroit-red-wings-anthony-mantha/28178883/

Part of my job is to make sure that we teach habits,” said Blashill. “So part of the ways to learn habits is to talk and teach, and sometimes it’s to take ice time away, and in that particular instance we took ice time away. I thought there were a couple of instances there that he’s got to be better, and I took ice time away

http://www.hookedonhockeymagazine.com/anthony-manthas-transition-from-qmjhl-not-an-easy-one/

“When you care as much as he cares, as soon as he learns the daily attention to detail and the daily work ethic it takes, with his skill set, he’s going to be a special player.”

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2015/02/13/manthas-going-to-be-a-great-player-says-detroits-ahl-coach/

[frankgrimes 1,836]

Agreed frank. But and this does relate to them, if either one/both are moved for a top pair Dman we do need to go F. I still prefer to go F anyway. I would rather sign/trade for proven vets on the BL than to trust prospects. Kinda like pitching in baseball. You draft pitchers becasue there is a shortage of quality arms. You can always trade for hitters. In hockey goal scoring is a premium.

The problem is, soon this team will need both things so I'd rather go for preventing goals now and try to build a new defensive core around Danny D and then look at fixing the center-problem. The Wings can't afford to go into another Lidström situation when Pasha moves on.

[Richdg 267]

The problem is, soon this team will need both things so I'd rather go for preventing goals now and try to build a new defensive core around Danny D and then look at fixing the center-problem. The Wings can't afford to go into another Lidström situation when Pasha moves on.

Which is why I still want more high end F prospects. Datsyuk is gone in 2 years and Z isn't far behind. If both Mantha and Larkin pan out we are just replacing our loses, not improving. Of course the same is true on the BL. The one area we are set at is G, so no G's in the first 4/5 rounds are needed.

[Richdg 267]

Playing as expected huh? Fan generated tag huh? Hmmm...if only there were some Jeff Blashill quotes criticizing Mantha's effort and engagement. Oh wait, there are. If you seriously believe Mantha's performing as expected, and that his effort and intensity are there, you've got your head buried in the sand.

"I think Anthony has a skill set to be really good at the NHL level," Jeff Blashill told the Free Press. He needs to change his habit of how he skates every day in games. Because of his elite ability, he could play without moving his feet in juniors. He needs to learn to skate at a more consistent basis, get into puck battles, and when he has puck, skate to attack. If he gets that habit, he will be an elite player."

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nhl/red-wings/2015/05/29/detroit-red-wings-anthony-mantha/28178883/

Part of my job is to make sure that we teach habits,” said Blashill. “So part of the ways to learn habits is to talk and teach, and sometimes it’s to take ice time away, and in that particular instance we took ice time away. I thought there were a couple of instances there that he’s got to be better, and I took ice time away

http://www.hookedonhockeymagazine.com/anthony-manthas-transition-from-qmjhl-not-an-easy-one/

“When you care as much as he cares, as soon as he learns the daily attention to detail and the daily work ethic it takes, with his skill set, he’s going to be a special player.”

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2015/02/13/manthas-going-to-be-a-great-player-says-detroits-ahl-coach/

Yup read all of those. Not one of those says he is lazy. They all say he needs to improve. Which he does. A lazy person/player is a guy that doesn't work to improve his short comings. By all accounts he is working hard and has been.

The same is true of Mrazek BTW. Yes he had 2 shutouts in the PO's. He also had 2, 4 goals allowed games and had to be pulled. That would be the inconsistencies that come with youth. Does that make him lazy? No. That means he has things to work on, nothing more.

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

The problem is, soon this team will need both things so I'd rather go for preventing goals now and try to build a new defensive core around Danny D and then look at fixing the center-problem. The Wings can't afford to go into another Lidström situation when Pasha moves on.

This team is already in a lidstrom situation , never recovered from losing him ...we have a stud goalie coming up and very promising forwards coming up in larkin mantha athanasiou holmstrom bertuzzi , and other players who have a good chance in making it to the nhl in nosek,turgeon and nastasiuk as well as kids now In Tatar nyquist sheahan jurco and pulkkinen next season

Our defense besides dekeyser is lacking ... Kronwall is what 34?ericsson is in his 30s I believe ,Quincey ufa

What we need is to prioritize this draft and try to draft some good dmen that could at least develop and play In the top 2 pairs or were gonna end up having to over pay for the dion phaneufs of the world

Edited June 18, 2015 by nyqvististhefuture

[number9 3,297]

Yup read all of those. Not one of those says he is lazy. They all say he needs to improve. Which he does. A lazy person/player is a guy that doesn't work to improve his short comings. By all accounts he is working hard and has been.

The same is true of Mrazek BTW. Yes he had 2 shutouts in the PO's. He also had 2, 4 goals allowed games and had to be pulled. That would be the inconsistencies that come with youth. Does that make him lazy? No. That means he has things to work on, nothing more.

Guess how I know you've never seen him play

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Yup read all of those. Not one of those says he is lazy. They all say he needs to improve. Which he does. A lazy person/player is a guy that doesn't work to improve his short comings. By all accounts he is working hard and has been.

The same is true of Mrazek BTW. Yes he had 2 shutouts in the PO's. He also had 2, 4 goals allowed games and had to be pulled. That would be the inconsistencies that come with youth. Does that make him lazy? No. That means he has things to work on, nothing more.

Blashill isn't going to come out and say "he's lazy." The comments he made mean he's not working hard enough. Lazy is not working hard. Mantha is a lazy player who is used to being able to get by on skill.

[Richdg 267]

Guess how I know you've never seen him play

You would be wrong. Again.

Blashill isn't going to come out and say "he's lazy." The comments he made mean he's not working hard enough. Lazy is not working hard. Mantha is a lazy player who is used to being able to get by on skill.

Wrong. Blashill is that type of coach. In fact the griffins organization all praise him when you talk to them. But hey hate on!

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Yup. Except the interviews where Blashill says that he needs to work harder, nobody ever says anything negative about Mantha.

[Buppy 1,720]

I think the laziness argument gets thrown around too much. Professional athlete and lazy don't really go together. I think some players may develop a habit of poor effort when they can still be successful that way, not out of laziness, but more of a natural path-of-least-resistance instinct. And habits can be hard to break.

Back on topic, the more I look at the prospect pool this year, the more I think Kylington fits the Red Wings mold. A few mocks have him falling out of the first round now. Betting we'd feel safe trading back too. Ducks always seem to be active around the draft, wonder if we could swing something for their 1st and Wisniewski.

[number9 3,297]

Same ppl who hate on Franzen now defend Mantha. It's like Christmas.

[Mckinley25 678]

I think the laziness argument gets thrown around too much. Professional athlete and lazy don't really go together. I think some players may develop a habit of poor effort when they can still be successful that way, not out of laziness, but more of a natural path-of-least-resistance instinct. And habits can be hard to break.

Back on topic, the more I look at the prospect pool this year, the more I think Kylington fits the Red Wings mold. A few mocks have him falling out of the first round now. Betting we'd feel safe trading back too. Ducks always seem to be active around the draft, wonder if we could swing something for their 1st and Wisniewski.

I believe because it's widely known that one cannot become a professional athlete while being lazy, rationally thinking people understand when used in the context of pro sports, lazy is a relative descriptor.

Mantha is likely not lazy compared to me, but he may be compared to Chelios, and that is the argument as to why someone with first line potential could result in a bust.

Truthfully, I know nothing about Mantha and don't have an opinion, but I think Franzine is awesome. (I'm feminizing it because he's awesome, not sucky. Like Henrietta Zetterberg and Juanita Toews. Alright my pandering is probably offensive too so I'm done.)

[kipwinger 8,528]

I think the laziness argument gets thrown around too much. Professional athlete and lazy don't really go together. I think some players may develop a habit of poor effort when they can still be successful that way, not out of laziness, but more of a natural path-of-least-resistance instinct. And habits can be hard to break.

Back on topic, the more I look at the prospect pool this year, the more I think Kylington fits the Red Wings mold. A few mocks have him falling out of the first round now. Betting we'd feel safe trading back too. Ducks always seem to be active around the draft, wonder if we could swing something for their 1st and Wisniewski.

I wondered the same thing. Unless one of the quality higher end defensemen slip to Detroit, I don't see why they wouldn't trade back.

Plus, Elliot Friedman reports that Detroit is looked for a point producing defenseman who's "tough and aggressive".

Sounds like the Wiz to me. And he might be willing to waive his no trade to come here if he's not playing in Anaheim.

[Helmethead 235]

I just worry about Wiz not cracking the Ducks line-up in the playoffs. I know the Ducks have a deep blue line but I'd be worried about acquiring a guy who was a healthy scratch in the playoffs.

[kipwinger 8,528]

I believe because it's widely known that one cannot become a professional athlete while being lazy, rationally thinking people understand when used in the context of pro sports, lazy is a relative descriptor.

Mantha is likely not lazy compared to me, but he may be compared to Chelios, and that is the argument as to why someone with first line potential could result in a bust.

Truthfully, I know nothing about Mantha and don't have an opinion, but I think Franzine is awesome. (I'm feminizing it because he's awesome, not sucky. Like Henrietta Zetterberg and Juanita Toews. Alright my pandering is probably offensive too so I'm done.)

Agreed. It's said relative to other prospects.

I just worry about Wiz not cracking the Ducks line-up in the playoffs. I know the Ducks have a deep blue line but I'd be worried about acquiring a guy who was a healthy scratch in the playoffs.

He was injured going into the playoffs, and then they were playing awesome and so they didn't change the lineup. It really didn't have anything to do with him. It had everything to do with the fact that they were steamrolling their way through the playoffs without him, so they didn't change anything.

As a PP specialist, second/third pair puck mover, and occasional badass, the Wiz is a pretty big upgrade over anybody else we've got on our team. But that same thing is probably not true of Anaheim.

[Helmethead 235]

Well he's just as good as anyone else out there (Green, Franson, Ehrhoff, Phaneuf, Martin, etc). I wonder what we'd have to give up for him.

[kipwinger 8,528]

Well he's just as good as anyone else out there (Green, Franson, Ehrhoff, Phaneuf, Martin, etc). I wonder what we'd have to give up for him.

Probably not much. Anaheim didn't give too much to get him in the first place, and he has a NTC. So he's got Anaheim by the balls. If he's only willing to go to a couple different teams, then there won't be a bidding war for him, and the price will stay lower. Plus, gotta think Anaheim would be happy to just clear his contract (which is way less bad than people say, but still high) off the books.

Anaheim gave a depth forward, a 2nd Round pick, and a middling prospect for him at the deadline. The price would probably be lower now, considering it's not deadline day and there aren't too many placed he's likely willing to go right now.

[e_prime 1,936]

Probably not much. Anaheim didn't give too much to get him in the first place, and he has a NTC. So he's got Anaheim by the balls. If he's only willing to go to a couple different teams, then there won't be a bidding war for him, and the price will stay lower. Plus, gotta think Anaheim would be happy to just clear his contract (which is way less bad than people say, but still high) off the books.

Anaheim gave a depth forward, a 2nd Round pick, and a middling prospect for him at the deadline. The price would probably be lower now, considering it's not deadline day and there aren't too many placed he's likely willing to go right now.

...b-b-b-but he talked s*** about "us" before! He can't possibly want to come here.