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dmbongreyst

Wings sign Maine Defenseman Dan Renouf

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No, winning defenseman of the year in the OHL doesn't change anything. He was 20 years old when he won that. Most top end prospects aren't playing in Junior anymore at that age.

And Smith, no, not a bust. Again, he was drafted very late first round, he's been an every day NHLer now for 3 years, that's about what you'd expect. There are a few busts from his draft year though.

I also have a bit of a hard time using the "bust" term as well. It is so difficult to project a player from that young of an age. I think busts are really on the scouts and people building up all the hype...they've busted, not the player. Daigle is probably considered one of the biggest busts of all time, but if you really think about it, he didn't bust that bad. There was simply too much hype behind the guy, more than there should have been. He had some decent NHL seasons. I'd probably call him a bust, but he is so known as a bust because of all the hype.

It is very rare to have a player come along that you really know will be a star in the league, I can probably count with my fingers since I've been watching.

I can go along with what you are saying but I'm one to think that when you take a player in the 1st round he should be projected as a valuable player. Smith is not.

Smith was argued to be a top pairing Dman at one point. Now, you could argue that he shouldnt even be in our lineup and we have a horrible D.

Obviously not EVERYONE drafted in the 1st round pans out, but I think when you take a guy with that 1st pick he should.

Edited by WingsallTheway

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Smith is good. The people who know hockey recognize how much raw talent he has. Converting that to results depends on how he's coached. Blashill hasn't put Smith in a position to succeed yet. Give him 25 mind a night and first unit pp time. Results will be there.

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Smith is good. The people who know hockey recognize how much raw talent he has. Converting that to results depends on how he's coached. Blashill hasn't put Smith in a position to succeed yet. Give him 25 mind a night and first unit pp time. Results will be there.

Smith is good and has skills. Its too bad he has a hockey brain the size of a field mouse.

He will NOT get better. TOI will not help him get smarter. I think if he was raised as a forward he would have been a better player.

If Smith had Larkin's hockey sense, then he would likely be a top 2,3 Dman. Unfortunately, he doesnt and never will.

This is also why you never see Blash or Babs put him on the ice more. He can't be trusted.

Edited by WingsallTheway

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Smith is good and has skills. Its too bad he has a hockey brain the size of a field mouse.

He will NOT get better. TOI will not help him get smarter. I think if he was raised as a forward he would have been a better player.

If Smith had Larkin's hockey sense, then he would likely be a top 2,3 Dman. Unfortunately, he doesnt and never will.

This is also why you never see Blash or Babs put him on the ice more. He can't be trusted.

And how has that worked out for us so far? Oh yah. Bubble team and early round exit every year.

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Look, I don't have a problem with Smith. He's playing well this year. But his offensive potential has not translated to the NHL, and his weaknesses (defensive zone coverage mostly) would get exposed playing 25 minutes a night. I think he's be best as an Oduya, Anton Stralman, type. He will probably not score much, but could still be a decent puck mover and pk guy. And we have to stop with this fallacy that he just needs power play time to start scoring. For the last three years he's been given opportunities to earn power play time out of camp, and he wasn't delivered. For all his offensive attributes at lower levels, he's just not a point producer in the NHL. As evidenced by the fact that he scores less than other guys who don't get power play time either.

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Look, I don't have a problem with Smith. He's playing well this year. But his offensive potential has not translated to the NHL, and his weaknesses (defensive zone coverage mostly) would get exposed playing 25 minutes a night. I think he's be best as an Oduya, Anton Stralman, type. He will probably not score much, but could still be a decent puck mover and pk guy. And we have to stop with this fallacy that he just needs power play time to start scoring. For the last three years he's been given opportunities to earn power play time out of camp, and he wasn't delivered. For all his offensive attributes at lower levels, he's just not a point producer in the NHL. As evidenced by the fact that he scores less than other guys who don't get power play time either.

What you fail to realize is the fact that something needs to change. Your alternative is just in your paragraph is just doing what we've been doing. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Ok. But it's broke. Holland doesn't care, but a lot of us do. If you're against trying something new, that's fine. But have an alternative that's also new, too. We are in another barely make the playoffs season and impending 1st round exit and mediocre first round selection because of it scenario. How many times do you want to see our team do this. I am sick of it.

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I'm all for fixing problems. I am not, however, in favor of replacing player with worse players. For all his good possession stats, Smiths game has not translated into more points for our team. Green, Knonwall, and Dekeyser are all more "offensive". To suggest replacing Green with Smith on the power play is laughable. Sure its bad, but its not going to improve by putting a less offensive guy out there. Green has 9 more assists than Smith has total points. Clearly he's more capable of generating goals than Smith.

Look, I'm frustrated with the lack of scoring too. And I'm a huge believer in possession analytics. But they only matter if they lead to more points. And in Smiths case they don't.

I mean, if you follow the logic that "if its broke, replace current players simply with different players" then you should also favor having Helm on the power play. Or Glendening. I mean, it can't be worse right? Except it can, and will be, if you take capable guys out of those spots.

The goal should be to get our scorers to score more, like they have previously, not replace them with guys who have never done it in the first place.

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I'm all for fixing problems. I am not, however, in favor of replacing player with worse players. For all his good possession stats, Smiths game has not translated into more points for our team. Green, Knonwall, and Dekeyser are all more "offensive". To suggest replacing Green with Smith on the power play is laughable. Sure its bad, but its not going to improve by putting a less offensive guy out there. Green has 9 more assists than Smith has total points. Clearly he's more capable of generating goals than Smith.

Look, I'm frustrated with the lack of scoring too. And I'm a huge believer in possession analytics. But they only matter if they lead to more points. And in Smiths case they don't.

I mean, if you follow the logic that "if its broke, replace current players simply with different players" then you should also favor having Helm on the power play. Or Glendening. I mean, it can't be worse right? Except it can, and will be, if you take capable guys out of those spots.

The goal should be to get our scorers to score more, like they have previously, not replace them with guys who have never done it in the first place.

Come on. You act like Smith has the same amount of pp time as the others. Get the stats, please. Lets look at them. I'd do it, but you are way better at it than me.

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I'm not arguing that he's had the same amount. He hasn't. I'm arguing that he's been given plenty of chances to earn power play time and hasn't. Likely because he's not any good on the power play. And if that's the case, he probably isn't going to fix the problem. He is marginally outscoring Quincey and Marchenko, neither of whom have any power play time.

He's just not a great offensive player. There's plenty of other things he's fine at, but your intent to paint him as "offensive" based on his possession numbers and natural athleticism don't ring true. The guy doesn't score much, thems the facts.

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Its not fundamentally different then saying "if you want Jurco to score more give him 20 minutes a night and power play time". Sure he will score a little more, but that ignores the fact that you then WONT be giving that time to better, more capable, players.

The Wings did EXACTLY what you're advocating with Ian White. And while he did score more them team was worse off for it because we had a depth defenseman playing big minutes. Which is a relative loss for the overall product regardless of what it did for White's stat line.

Edited by kipwinger

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Smith is good. The people who know hockey recognize how much raw talent he has. Converting that to results depends on how he's coached. Blashill hasn't put Smith in a position to succeed yet. Give him 25 mind a night and first unit pp time. Results will be there.

Coaches can only do so much. They're not on the bench with mind control devices. Some players just are stupid

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The fallacy here is that we've got bad players, and that we need to change them. Our players are good, and didn't magically forget how to play from one year to the next. The fact that they're universally all less good than they were a year ago suggests there's a systemic problem. The key is to make the necessary adjustments to get our good players back to the level they've demonstrated they're capable of. What's troubling is that our coaching staff currently seems to have no idea how to do that. In hindsight it would probably have been a good idea to go out and get an established assistant coach with a track record of power play success. But hindsight is what it is.

Edited by kipwinger

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Come on. You act like Smith has the same amount of pp time as the others. Get the stats, please. Lets look at them. I'd do it, but you are way better at it than me.

Green: ~158 minutes, Team stats: 18 GF, 6.82 GF/60, Individual stats: 2g, 11p, 4.16 p/60

Kronwall: ~146 minutes, Team stats: 16 GF, 6.59 GF/60, Individual stats: 0g, 10p, 4.12 p/60

Smith: ~35 minutes, Team stats: 2 GF, 3.44 GF/60, Individual stats: 1g, 1p, 1.72 p/60

Smith (career): ~130 minutes, Team stats: 8 GF, 3.69 GF/60, Individual stats: 2g, 7p, 3.23 p/60

Translation: Smith would make an already bad PP even worse.

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Green: ~158 minutes, Team stats: 18 GF, 6.82 GF/60, Individual stats: 2g, 11p, 4.16 p/60

Kronwall: ~146 minutes, Team stats: 16 GF, 6.59 GF/60, Individual stats: 0g, 10p, 4.12 p/60

Smith: ~35 minutes, Team stats: 2 GF, 3.44 GF/60, Individual stats: 1g, 1p, 1.72 p/60

Smith (career): ~130 minutes, Team stats: 8 GF, 3.69 GF/60, Individual stats: 2g, 7p, 3.23 p/60

Translation: Smith would make an already bad PP even worse.

This is strong supporting evidence. Damning, in fact.

Its not fundamentally different then saying "if you want Jurco to score more give him 20 minutes a night and power play time". Sure he will score a little more, but that ignores the fact that you then WONT be giving that time to better, more capable, players.

The Wings did EXACTLY what you're advocating with Ian White. And while he did score more them team was worse off for it because we had a depth defenseman playing big minutes. Which is a relative loss for the overall product regardless of what it did for White's stat line.

I get your point. I just think the Wings need to either shyte or get off the pot. You dump time and money into first round picks. Not putting them in positions to succeed seems like a bad way to be.

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every player has the chance to bust, outside of the top 10 there aren't any guarantees.

Smith is a fine player but just not the top talent some fans hoped he would become :(

Anyhow signing players that don't cost you anything is smart I have high hopes for this guy, great size physical maybe finally someone to pair with Danny D.

Edited by frankgrimes

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A good pick up by the Wings, very mobile and gritty young D man. I believe we'll see a big change up on the blue line during the off season. The kid Russo in GRs will be close if not on the roster next year. Kenny will make some moves for sure, and maybe one or two surprising ones at that.

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A good pick up by the Wings, very mobile and gritty young D man. I believe we'll see a big change up on the blue line during the off season. The kid Russo in GRs will be close if not on the roster next year. Kenny will make some moves for sure, and maybe one or two surprising ones at that.

That Russo guy is for sure doing his part to cut in line. Where did he even come from? Someone care to inform? I'm usually very informed on our prospects but he came out of nowhere this year

Really wish we had just 1 top pairing dman in the minors. We have so many 5 6 and 7's :(

Edited by WingsallTheway

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I love our speed, and our transitions, this game. Now if we could get some guys to play in the middle of the offensive zone. All our offense comes from the rush, which is fine, but we'd be a lot better off if we got shots from the middle when we have sustained offensive zone pressure. Too much perimeter shooting.

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I love our speed, and our transitions, this game. Now if we could get some guys to play in the middle of the offensive zone. All our offense comes from the rush, which is fine, but we'd be a lot better off if we got shots from the middle when we have sustained offensive zone pressure. Too much perimeter shooting.

The more I watch the more evident it is that the D is our issue. In my opinion, our forwards are great. I could go on for 30 minutes right now about why the D is the problem but I'm not that motivated haha

I dont understand why our PP is set up for shots from the point especially since we dont have a pure shooter on the point besides Green. It was great when we had Lids Rafffi and prime Kronner back there but it just doesn't work anymore. We never move the puck down towards the net.

Edited by WingsallTheway

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Russo was New York 4th in 2011. Played at Notre Dame. He has been coming on strong lately. Leads the Griffins at +45. Yeah, thats what I said.

#20 Renouf (re-NUFF) is out of Pickering Ont. 3 years at Maine. He played his first game tonight for the Griffins and looked like he knew what he was doing. Only once did I see him swimming on the ice. Physical and good outlet passes. Played left D.

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