Be honest..

[DickieDunn 2,571]

IF they make it, it will be because other teams fall apart, not because they're good enough.  They don't have a zero chance, but it ain't good either.  Slightly better than the chances of Kate Upton leaving Verlander for me.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

3 hours ago, greenrebellion said:

It is this kind of thinking that will keep Holland's hands tied as the deadline approaches. Focus more on the teams play rather than the artificially compressed standings and you will realize just how bad this team is. Howard isn't going to maintain a 1.5 gaa all season and when he regresses to the mean, look out below.

We should trade Mraz and find an actual reliable backup, so we're ready when this happens.

[kliq 3,763]

3 hours ago, greenrebellion said:

It is this kind of thinking that will keep Holland's hands tied as the deadline approaches. Focus more on the teams play rather than the artificially compressed standings and you will realize just how bad this team is. Howard isn't going to maintain a 1.5 gaa all season and when he regresses to the mean, look out below.

This isnt any type of thinking on my part. "Are the Wings a Good Team" and "Do the Wings have a 0% chance at making the playoffs" are simply two different questions.

If you are asking me my opinion on this teams, my answer will be the same as its been for months, unlike some I will not change my opinion after a 6 game winning streak, and I will not change my opinion after a bad stretch of games. I think we are an average team, but I believe we are playing right now like a basement team. If people want to say I am wearing "rose colored glasses" because I think think this team is average, lol go for it..

 

Edited December 14, 2016 by kliq

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Average teams have a couple guys who are legit top line forwards or top pair D.  The Wings have neither.  They might be better with a new coach, assuming said coach can get Tatar and Nyquist to play like they did two years ago, but they're still short legit top line players.

Edited December 14, 2016 by DickieDunn

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

17 minutes ago, DickieDunn said:

Average teams have a couple guys who are legit top line forwards or top pair D.  The Wings have neither.  They might be better with a new coach, assuming said coach can get Tatar and Nyquist to play like they did two years ago, but they're still short legit top line players.

Oh please negative Nancy. There's a rule now that you must have a few legit top line forwards or top pair D in order to be average? News to me. I thought you just needed a team full of average players to be average. But that would make too much sense I guess.

[kickazz 5,459]

9 hours ago, DickieDunn said:

I'd be ok with the Wings not being a great team if they looked like they had a coherent plan to get back to being contenders sometime in the near future.  They don't.  "Sign vets and hope for the best" is a loser strategy that will keep them in that "playoff contenders" category for the foreseeable future.  Just like the Lions were when Ford Sr. was alive and running the team.

No you wouldn't.  

[kliq 3,763]

23 minutes ago, DickieDunn said:

Average teams have a couple guys who are legit top line forwards or top pair D.  The Wings have neither.  They might be better with a new coach, assuming said coach can get Tatar and Nyquist to play like they did two years ago, but they're still short legit top line players.

There are also elite players on garbage teams, there is no rule of how many top players make a team bad, average or good. Please explain to a Colorado Avalanche fan how having a couple elite players automatically make you a good team, or Oilers fans pre McDavid.

I am not saying that right here in 2016 we are a great team, I agree changes need to be made. I want to trade for a 1D as much as anyone, but I am realistic and see how hard that would be for any GM. My issue is when people are so over the top with their thinking. People are not "fanboys" if they still like this team, they are not "haters" if they dislike the direction. This team is not elite, this team is not garbage. We are an average team going through a rebuild and our kids have progressed at a slower rate then what our vets have regressed.

Holland has signed some players to good contracts, some players to bad contracts. Its like some on here think you have to pick a side and you are either pro everything, or anti everything. That is not my way of thinking as I like to evaluate every decision without emotion for what it is.

[kickazz 5,459]

1 hour ago, kliq said:

Holland has signed some players to good contracts, some players to bad contracts. Its like some on here think you have to pick a side and you are either pro everything, or anti everything. That is not my way of thinking as I like to evaluate every decision without emotion for what it is.

"Non-hater or hater"

 

Edited December 14, 2016 by kickazz

[DickieDunn 2,571]

1 hour ago, kliq said:

There are also elite players on garbage teams, there is no rule of how many top players make a team bad, average or good. Please explain to a Colorado Avalanche fan how having a couple elite players automatically make you a good team, or Oilers fans pre McDavid.

I am not saying that right here in 2016 we are a great team, I agree changes need to be made. I want to trade for a 1D as much as anyone, but I am realistic and see how hard that would be for any GM. My issue is when people are so over the top with their thinking. People are not "fanboys" if they still like this team, they are not "haters" if they dislike the direction. This team is not elite, this team is not garbage. We are an average team going through a rebuild and our kids have progressed at a slower rate then what our vets have regressed.

Holland has signed some players to good contracts, some players to bad contracts. Its like some on here think you have to pick a side and you are either pro everything, or anti everything. That is not my way of thinking as I like to evaluate every decision without emotion for what it is.

Obviously you need more than one or two elite players, but a team with several B and C level players and filled out with guys who probably shouldn't be in the NHL is a bad team, especially with a bad coach.  The way the Wings are playing bears that out.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

10 minutes ago, DickieDunn said:

Obviously you need more than one or two elite players, but a team with several B and C level players and filled out with guys who probably shouldn't be in the NHL is a bad team, especially with a bad coach.  The way the Wings are playing bears that out.

Like who? Lashoff? The rest of the team are legit NHLers. Sure we've had to call up some kids like Sproul and what not, but every team has to do this when the injuries role in.

Besides the D this actually pretty deep team on paper. We're a team of 2nd and 3rd liners, we don't have elite talent, but don't have absolute crap talent either. AKA average.

DOOM N GLOOM!

Edited December 14, 2016 by ChristopherReevesLegs

[greenrebellion 415]

This team is almost dead last in goals per game and pp%. We are not a 1D away from being decent. 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

2 minutes ago, F.Michael said:

I tend to agree here.

Sure - the Wings are capable of developing 'NHL' players, but by who's standards?

Having the likes of Abdelkader, Glendening, Helm playing top 6 minutes - Tatar, Nyquist, Sheahan, underachieving, and a aging Zetterberg goes to show we really lack quality when compared to many of our rivals...Same can be said for our depleted D corps - while DD, and Green are a decent 2nd pairing - they're certainly not a legit top pair, but are getting the playing time as if they were.

Be it our roster, or coaching staff - we really aren't that good.

I think there would be much different results without Blashill 

[greenrebellion 415]

I don't know.  It may be premature to blame Blashill too much.  I have been a consistent fan of Babcock, even putting him in the ranks of the greatest coaches of all time.  No matter who you transition from after that is going to a be a disappointment, relatively speaking.  

Babcock had a way of getting far more out of his players than any other coach was able (I mean look at some of these rosters that he took to the playoffs despite dealing with tremendous injuries in his last few seasons here).  So it may simply be a case of finally seeing our roster for who they really are, absent a coach who could create a system where the sum was MUCH greater than its parts.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

To get back to the heart of this thread...
Is this really the ideal year to draft? Here is a quote from Corey Pronman's (ESPNs NHL Draft and Prospect Analyst) Reddit AMA the other day...

"In general yes this draft class is bad. Between top guys like Patrick/Liljegren/Vilardi being hurt, to a lack of blow you away talent, this isn't the season to suck.

Suck next season though, 2018 is looking stacked between Veleno, Svechnikov, Dahlin, Merkley etc."

THIS ISN'T THE SEASON TO SUCK
Holland of course could unload some pieces for 2018 draft picks, but one of the main points in tanking is raising the rank of your own draft selections. This may be a draft where that really doesn't matter all too much. And why unload pieces that can help you now or next year, when there's a whole other trade deadline before that draft?

On the flipside, I see expansion looming in the distance. If we unload pieces now, we lessen the risk of losing pieces for nothing at the expansion draft.

Thoughts?

[greenrebellion 415]

1 minute ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

To get back to the heart of this thread...
Is this really the ideal year to draft? Here is a quote from Corey Pronman's (ESPNs NHL Draft and Prospect Analyst) Reddit AMA the other day...

"In general yes this draft class is bad. Between top guys like Patrick/Liljegren/Vilardi being hurt, to a lack of blow you away talent, this isn't the season to suck.

Suck next season though, 2018 is looking stacked between Veleno, Svechnikov, Dahlin, Merkley etc."

THIS ISN'T THE SEASON TO SUCK
Holland of course could unload some pieces for 2018 draft picks, but one of the main points in tanking is raising the rank of your own draft selections. This may be a draft where that really doesn't matter all too much. And why unload pieces that can help you now or next year, when there's a whole other trade deadline before that draft?

On the flipside, I see expansion looming in the distance. If we unload pieces now, we lessen the risk of losing pieces for nothing at the expansion draft.

Thoughts?

Don't worry, we'll likely suck next season as well.  

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

11 minutes ago, greenrebellion said:

Don't worry, we'll likely suck next season as well.  

Well if the current trend continues and the sky has really fallen, then yes we will likely be even worse next year. My point is maybe we should be holding on to guys who can actually play, like Vanek, instead of unloading this year, and waiting till next.

[kickazz 5,459]

With our luck. We suck this year, get a high draft pick and it's not even a good draft year.

Or. 

We end up bottom of the league. Are in lottery for #1 pick but end up losing out on the lottery to Buffalo who get #1 while we get #2

Anyways, not a good year to suck imo. 

Edited December 14, 2016 by kickazz

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Unload Green and Vanek and whoever else you can. Next year start any kid who is close to ready in the NHL and fill your roster with guys similar to Vanek and Green on one year deals with the intent of trading them at the deadline.

Sent from my LGLS676 using Tapatalk

[Son of a Wing 1,644]

11 minutes ago, DickieDunn said:

Unload Green and Vanek and whoever else you can. Next year start any kid who is close to ready in the NHL and fill your roster with guys similar to Vanek and Green on one year deals with the intent of trading them at the deadline.

Sent from my LGLS676 using Tapatalk
 

I can't imagine guys of their calibre agreeing to one year deals with a team that's blowing it up. 

Nobody wanted to sign in Toronto under those circumstances. All they could get on a one year deal was Parenteau and nobody wanted him. 

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Vanek was coming off a terrible year and Green had been demoted to the Caps 3rd pair. They came here to get ice time.

Sent from my LGLS676 using Tapatalk

[frankgrimes 1,836]

To get back to the heart of this thread...

Is this really the ideal year to draft? Here is a quote from Corey Pronman's (ESPNs NHL Draft and Prospect Analyst) Reddit AMA the other day...

"In general yes this draft class is bad. Between top guys like Patrick/Liljegren/Vilardi being hurt, to a lack of blow you away talent, this isn't the season to suck.

Suck next season though, 2018 is looking stacked between Veleno, Svechnikov, Dahlin, Merkley etc."

THIS ISN'T THE SEASON TO SUCK

Holland of course could unload some pieces for 2018 draft picks, but one of the main points in tanking is raising the rank of your own draft selections. This may be a draft where that really doesn't matter all too much. And why unload pieces that can help you now or next year, when there's a whole other trade deadline before that draft?

On the flipside, I see expansion looming in the distance. If we unload pieces now, we lessen the risk of losing pieces for nothing at the expansion draft.

Thoughts?

ESPN enough said, the year to tank would have been last or even better the year before with the 2 phenoms McJesus and Eichel Tower

Unloading Vanel and Green should he a no brainer if a team is offering something like a second and a prospect you get rid of them

[kickazz 5,459]

18 minutes ago, frankgrimes said:

ESPN enough said, the year to tank would have been last or even better the year before with the 2 phenoms McJesus and Eichel Tower

 

Dude the names you come up with... 

[frankgrimes 1,836]

Dude the names you come up with... 

Aren't mine

[krsmith17 7,191]

3 hours ago, frankgrimes said:

Aren't mine

So stop using them... They sound awful... Maybe I should just go back and unread it though...

[kickazz 5,459]

51 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

So stop using them... They sound awful... Maybe I should just go back and unread it though...

It wouldn't take away the damage it did. 

Eichel Tower? I want to puke. 

Lmao apparently it's a nickname given by a 7 year old boy who started a twitter account stacking up pucks every time Eichel scores a goal. Kinda creepy frank 

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/buffalo-sabres-family-makes--eichel-tower--grow-with-goals-235929926.html

https://twitter.com/eicheltower615

Edited December 15, 2016 by kickazz