Jimmy Howard "Out awhile" - Coreau called up (again).

[chaps80 1,591]

16 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Very complicated response to Dickies simple honest stats. Fact is Mrazek has sucked pretty badly and Howard has been dynamite. Thats it. Heck yeah im riding Howard if im Blash. Hes clearly the better goalie.

Yeah, the all important stats again. I'm not arguing against Howard's great season. I'm arguing Blash's ineptitude to properly handle that situation. Keep throwing me stats about Jimmy's great year and telling me how you all love him because he's doing his job. It doesn't change things.

[chaps80 1,591]

2 minutes ago, kliq said:

You're really playing with numbers here. Its only 17-15 because Mrazek started the year as the starter meaning that of those 17 starts, like 9 were in the first 12 games. Then when you factor in the time Howard was hurt, its really not close to 50/50. Since Mrazek lost the starting job about a month into the season, Howard has been the bonafide starter while healthy. 

October: Mrazek 7, Howard 3

November: Mrazek 5, Howard 8

December: Mrazek 5, Howard 4, Coreau 2

Even with Howard's injury, his total would probably be close to the November total. 

Did you know he's lost all his December starts?

I seem to remember you posting that if Mrazek can play well, he should get his job back. He was, even though Howard was injured. But the way he was playing, That shouldn't matter anyways, right?

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Yeah, the all important stats again. I'm not arguing against Howard's great season. I'm arguing Blash's ineptitude to properly handle that situation. Keep throwing me stats about Jimmy's great year and telling me how you all love him because he's doing his job. It doesn't change things.

Playing his #1 goalie when he got back was the proper way to handle the situation.

Sent from my LGLS676 using Tapatalk

[kliq 3,755]

30 minutes ago, chaps80 said:

October: Mrazek 7, Howard 3

November: Mrazek 5, Howard 8

December: Mrazek 5, Howard 4, Coreau 2

Even with Howard's injury, his total would probably be close to the November total. 

Did you know he's lost all his December starts?

I seem to remember you posting that if Mrazek can play well, he should get his job back. He was, even though Howard was injured. But the way he was playing, That shouldn't matter anyways, right?

What I posted was that at some point Mrazek would get a chance to win the job back. Right now is that opportunity as he has 4-6 weeks to likely get 75% of the starts in that time frame. Lets see what he does with this opportunity. 

[chaps80 1,591]

22 minutes ago, DickieDunn said:

Playing his #1 goalie when he got back was the proper way to handle the situation.

Sent from my LGLS676 using Tapatalk
 

Howard is all of a sudden undisputed #1 when they've shared the workload all along? Where did you arrive at that? Has it ever came from Blash or Holland's mouth, or are you going by stats and judging from those? 

13 minutes ago, kliq said:

What I posted was that at some point Mrazek would get a chance to win the job back. Right now is that opportunity as he has 4-6 weeks to likely get 75% of the starts in that time frame. Lets see what he does with this opportunity. 

Yeah he SHOULD get most of the starts, but will he? Nothing that makes sense seems to fit Blashill's coaching methods, from his line juggling putting guys together no one would, to the head scratcher D pairings, to the goaltending.

[kliq 3,755]

16 minutes ago, chaps80 said:

Howard is all of a sudden undisputed #1 when they've shared the workload all along? Where did you arrive at that? Has it ever came from Blash or Holland's mouth, or are you going by stats and judging from those? 

Yeah he SHOULD get most of the starts, but will he? Nothing that makes sense seems to fit Blashill's coaching methods, from his line juggling putting guys together no one would, to the head scratcher D pairings, to the goaltending.

I just don't agree with you in regards to the goaltending. Blashill's job is to win, when that is your job you play the goalie who is playing the best. If Mrazek lets in 12 goals in his next 4 games, ya Coreau may play. Best way to prevent that? Dont play bad. 

Edited December 27, 2016 by kliq

[Echolalia 2,961]

1 hour ago, chaps80 said:

Not quite. Mrazek has started 17, Howard 15. Sounds like more of a tandem situation to me. And if Blash was to follow the protocol of playing the hot hand regardless of position on the depth chart that many here think is the way to go, then Howard shouldn't have entered the equation after Mrazek's one bad game after an 8 out of 10 point run. he was heating up, getting in a groove, gaining confidence. No way you bench him after one loss then start your other goalie again after he had the same result right after. That's bad coaching, no way around it.

If one goalie starts the first 41 games of a season then another goalie starts the final 41 games of a season would you call it a tandem situation, or a situation where one goalie was initially labeled starter, then lost the job to the other goalie?  Obviously this is an extreme example but it illustrates my point that you can't look at total games played between the two to label them as sharing the net or not.  Mrazek started the season as number 1 and as he struggled the situation shifted from a clear starter/backup, to a tandem, and then back to a clear starter except with Howard  as the number 1.  And as a clear starter/backup situation, as most of the Mrazek passifists repeatedly said this season, yourself included (despite his awful play), the starting goalie should get the majority of starts if he's healthy and ready to go.

[chaps80 1,591]

1 minute ago, kliq said:

I just don't agree with you with the in regards to the goaltending. Blashill's job is to win, when that is your job you play the goalie who is playing the best. If Mrazek lets in 12 goals in his next 4 games, ya Coreau may play. Best way to prevent that? Dont play bad. 

Well, he has to be given the chance first. The guy came up from GR, stole a permanent roster spot and unseated the starter, earned a $4 million contract in one season of play, part of another, and 10 playoff games. He's got the talent to be one of the best in the game. Yeah, he's had troubles, but If he is to be the future of the team, he's not gonna do it from the bench. Now is the time to play the kids. More of a focus should be on development at this point, because this team is going nowhere. Coreau will play too, and i'm glad he will get NHL experience, because he's gonna be a damn good goalie as well.

[chaps80 1,591]

20 minutes ago, Echolalia said:

If one goalie starts the first 41 games of a season then another goalie starts the final 41 games of a season would you call it a tandem situation, or a situation where one goalie was initially labeled starter, then lost the job to the other goalie?  Obviously this is an extreme example but it illustrates my point that you can't look at total games played between the two to label them as sharing the net or not.  Mrazek started the season as number 1 and as he struggled the situation shifted from a clear starter/backup, to a tandem, and then back to a clear starter except with Howard  as the number 1.  And as a clear starter/backup situation, as most of the Mrazek passifists repeatedly said this season, yourself included (despite his awful play), the starting goalie should get the majority of starts if he's healthy and ready to go.

I understand what your saying, but don't see where and when the tandem turned into Howard taking the #1 job again though. If you look at the games played by month that I posted, it's been around 50% the whole time give or take. I see Blash favouring Howard some now, but I dunno if he ever favoured Mrazek in the first place. He seemed to be on a fairly short leash, as Howard got close to half the starts Mrazek did, which is unusual. If you look at the Pens, Murray has started 12 games to Flower's 2 since he came back from injury, even though 5 of them were losses with a save% under .900 That's a true starter/backup total.

[Echolalia 2,961]

17 minutes ago, chaps80 said:

I understand what your saying, but don't see where and when the tandem turned into Howard taking the #1 job again though. If you look at the games played by month that I posted, it's been around 50% the whole time give or take. I see Blash favouring Howard some now, but I dunno if he ever favoured Mrazek in the first place. He seemed to be on a fairly short leash, as Howard got close to half the starts Mrazek did, which is unusual. If you look at the Pens, Murray has started 12 games to Flower's 2 since he came back from injury, even though 5 of them were losses with a save% under .900 That's a true starter/backup total.

The bias in favor of Howard has to do with his top 5 numbers and Mrazek's sub .900 and 3+ GAA.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

1 hour ago, chaps80 said:

Well, he has to be given the chance first. The guy came up from GR, stole a permanent roster spot and unseated the starter, earned a $4 million contract in one season of play, part of another, and 10 playoff games. He's got the talent to be one of the best in the game. Yeah, he's had troubles, but If he is to be the future of the team, he's not gonna do it from the bench. Now is the time to play the kids. More of a focus should be on development at this point, because this team is going nowhere. Coreau will play too, and i'm glad he will get NHL experience, because he's gonna be a damn good goalie as well.

Some of us still want to win games. As does Blashill. Mraz has been god awful enough that I am A Ok trying out Coreau more and seeing what hes got. We are not exactly in a position where we can afford to throwaway games cause "development". If we dont come out strong after this break then yeah were screwed and Mraz can have his starter job back for all i care.

50 minutes ago, chaps80 said:

I understand what your saying, but don't see where and when the tandem turned into Howard taking the #1 job again though. If you look at the games played by month that I posted, it's been around 50% the whole time give or take. I see Blash favouring Howard some now, but I dunno if he ever favoured Mrazek in the first place. He seemed to be on a fairly short leash, as Howard got close to half the starts Mrazek did, which is unusual. If you look at the Pens, Murray has started 12 games to Flower's 2 since he came back from injury, even though 5 of them were losses with a save% under .900 That's a true starter/backup total.

Well when youve been mraz bad, youre gonna get on a short leash quick. Clearly the organization wants him to develop. He was the chosen one after all. But we cant just throwaway games bc of him either. Howard would have a lot more games played if his health had held up.

[Buppy 1,720]

1 hour ago, chaps80 said:

I understand what your saying, but don't see where and when the tandem turned into Howard taking the #1 job again though. If you look at the games played by month that I posted, it's been around 50% the whole time give or take. I see Blash favouring Howard some now, but I dunno if he ever favoured Mrazek in the first place. He seemed to be on a fairly short leash, as Howard got close to half the starts Mrazek did, which is unusual. If you look at the Pens, Murray has started 12 games to Flower's 2 since he came back from injury, even though 5 of them were losses with a save% under .900 That's a true starter/backup total.

That's very misleading. It's never been a tandem. Mrazek started 9 of the first 12. Howard took over and started 8 out of 9, got hurt, then after coming back started 4 of 6. So 12 of 15 total while healthy after taking over as the starter.

[chaps80 1,591]

26 minutes ago, Echolalia said:

The bias in favor of Howard has to do with his top 5 numbers and Mrazek's sub .900 and 3+ GAA.

Again the stats. 

 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

12 minutes ago, chaps80 said:

Again the stats. 

 

Well have you seen them? If i knew nothing of the wings but the stats like many opposing fans, id say that Mrazek guy is useless and clearly Howard is there number 1

[chaps80 1,591]

1 hour ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Well have you seen them? If i knew nothing of the wings but the stats like many opposing fans, id say that Mrazek guy is useless and clearly Howard is there number 1

Oh i've seen them. Very uncharacteristic for both, especially the past three seasons.

Jimmy has been solid all year, but lately he's had a little slump. No wins since coming back from injury. Mrazek started off good with a couple bad games thrown in, then he hit a rough patch but he was still picking up some wins, then had a great stretch, then a bad game. Now what happens from there we'll see. He's got the team 19 points to big Jim's 11. The way you say he's useless and garbage makes no sense at all. Stats don't tell the whole story.

Figured i'd add that Howard, as far as "number 1" goalies go, is historically unreliable. When he hits his slumps, he's BAD, He's injured at least once a year, has done nothing of significance in 8 years of NHL hockey, played 5 playoff games the past three seasons. He'll play well in the regular season sometimes, but when he's really counted upon, he falls flat on his face. Or pulls his groin.

Edited December 27, 2016 by chaps80

[chaps80 1,591]

2 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Some of us still want to win games. As does Blashill. Mraz has been god awful enough that I am A Ok trying out Coreau more and seeing what hes got. We are not exactly in a position where we can afford to throwaway games cause "development". If we dont come out strong after this break then yeah were screwed and Mraz can have his starter job back for all i care.

Well when youve been mraz bad, youre gonna get on a short leash quick. Clearly the organization wants him to develop. He was the chosen one after all. But we cant just throwaway games bc of him either. Howard would have a lot more games played if his health had held up.

There's more fans wanting development and planning for the future than winning games to not make the playoffs, or sneaking in and getting destroyed. Who doesn't want a top 5 pick this draft? Come on.

Howard's health never holds up. Part of the reason he never was and never will be the guy to take the team back to a Cup. He's injured as much as Monster was.

[kliq 3,755]

1 hour ago, chaps80 said:

There's more fans wanting development and planning for the future than winning games to not make the playoffs, or sneaking in and getting destroyed. Who doesn't want a top 5 pick this draft? Come on.

Howard's health never holds up. Part of the reason he never was and never will be the guy to take the team back to a Cup. He's injured as much as Monster was.

As far as my comments go, this is a different argument. My argument is that you cannot blame Blashill for his use of his goalies this year. As far as we know, that is NOT the direction being given by ownership. Granted this is speculation, but if Holland and Blashill are being told to win now then you cannot blame Blashill for going with Howard. If ownership came out and said "right now doesn't matter, we are purely re-building" that would be a different story.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

10 hours ago, chaps80 said:

Oh i've seen them. Very uncharacteristic for both, especially the past three seasons.

Jimmy has been solid all year, but lately he's had a little slump. No wins since coming back from injury. Mrazek started off good with a couple bad games thrown in, then he hit a rough patch but he was still picking up some wins, then had a great stretch, then a bad game. Now what happens from there we'll see. He's got the team 19 points to big Jim's 11. The way you say he's useless and garbage makes no sense at all. Stats don't tell the whole story.

Figured i'd add that Howard, as far as "number 1" goalies go, is historically unreliable. When he hits his slumps, he's BAD, He's injured at least once a year, has done nothing of significance in 8 years of NHL hockey, played 5 playoff games the past three seasons. He'll play well in the regular season sometimes, but when he's really counted upon, he falls flat on his face. Or pulls his groin.

You should just come out as a doom n gloomer straight away. Explains why you want to play the crap goalie over the good one much quicker.

Blash is fighting for his job. Sorry that doesnt align with your rebuild.

Edited December 27, 2016 by ChristopherReevesLegs

[chaps80 1,591]

1 hour ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

You should just come out as a doom n gloomer straight away. Explains why you want to play the crap goalie over the good one much quicker.

Blash is fighting for his job. Sorry that doesnt align with your rebuild.

It's not doom and gloom, it's the unbiased truth. Howard is having a great season, but it doesn't change his past injuries, failures, and dissapointments. Great numbers in 15 games with two injuries and all is forgiven for some of you guys. It's funny. I don't get it, but I guess we may as well just agree to disagree on his worth to the team.

[chaps80 1,591]

11 hours ago, kliq said:

As far as my comments go, this is a different argument. My argument is that you cannot blame Blashill for his use of his goalies this year. As far as we know, that is NOT the direction being given by ownership. Granted this is speculation, but if Holland and Blashill are being told to win now then you cannot blame Blashill for going with Howard. If ownership came out and said "right now doesn't matter, we are purely re-building" that would be a different story.

But you can blame him for starting something that didn't need to be. Someone said Mrazek started 9 of the first 12 before Howard started 8of 9. Mraz went 4-4-1, Jimmy went 2-1 in that first 12. Was there really a reason for a change, or should he have let his number 1 continue? To me, 9 starts in which he went. 500 isn't enough to change things at the start of the season. The move was premature because Blash doesn't think normal and he panicked. Not like the change got him anywhere though because the team doesn't score goals for Howard for some reason, and he's on his second injury in not even three months. 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

1 hour ago, chaps80 said:

It's not doom and gloom, it's the unbiased truth. Howard is having a great season, but it doesn't change his past injuries, failures, and dissapointments. Great numbers in 15 games with two injuries and all is forgiven for some of you guys. It's funny. I don't get it, but I guess we may as well just agree to disagree on his worth to the team.

Howard is a league established starting goaltender.

Mrazek is a 24 year old kid with terrible stats.

Lets talk about value. 

[kliq 3,755]

1 hour ago, chaps80 said:

But you can blame him for starting something that didn't need to be. Someone said Mrazek started 9 of the first 12 before Howard started 8of 9. Mraz went 4-4-1, Jimmy went 2-1 in that first 12. Was there really a reason for a change, or should he have let his number 1 continue? To me, 9 starts in which he went. 500 isn't enough to change things at the start of the season. The move was premature because Blash doesn't think normal and he panicked. Not like the change got him anywhere though because the team doesn't score goals for Howard for some reason, and he's on his second injury in not even three months. 

I think you are putting too much value on wins/losses. With that logic when Jimmy loses 1-0 in OT, that is a point against him, while when Mrazek wins say 4-3, that is a point for him. Its clear you are a fan of Mrazek, and I think you are looking for arguments that favor him because that is who you personally favor.

If you look at the situation objectively from the perspective of a coach, Howard is the one who should be getting the majority of the starts based on the play of the two. Blashill's job is to win, and when his job is on the line he is going to play the goalie that gives him the best chance.

If we switch gears and look at this from the perspective of ownership, and you want to argue that ownership should be giving the mandate "We dont care about this season, what we want is to groom our young talent" that is a different story. However, every indication is that ownership cares about the here and now.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

But you can blame him for starting something that didn't need to be. Someone said Mrazek started 9 of the first 12 before Howard started 8of 9. Mraz went 4-4-1, Jimmy went 2-1 in that first 12. Was there really a reason for a change, or should he have let his number 1 continue? To me, 9 starts in which he went. 500 isn't enough to change things at the start of the season. The move was premature because Blash doesn't think normal and he panicked. Not like the change got him anywhere though because the team doesn't score goals for Howard for some reason, and he's on his second injury in not even three months. 

When Mrazek was giving up 3 or more goals every game, that's not good enough to keep the #1 job. I don't care of he was undefeated, a team isn't going to win much like that long term. Blashill is a moron in a lot of ways but his handling of the net is about the only thing I agree with him on, and I don't even thunk Howard is more than an average starter.

Sent from my LGLS676 using Tapatalk

[Echolalia 2,961]

I think a more interesting question now that Howard is out again is does Mrazek get the majority of starts now or does Blashill go with a tandem and see if Coreau can outperform him

[GoalieManPat 1,007]

5 minutes ago, Echolalia said:

I think a more interesting question now that Howard is out again is does Mrazek get the majority of starts now or does Blashill go with a tandem and see if Coreau can outperform him

Blashill is going to go with whoever can get him wins. He knows if the Bruins ever find their game the Wings could be out of the race by mid January. If that happens he knows hes gone. With how Mrazek played last night I fully expect Coreau to start Thursday.