Goodbye Ken Holland?

[Echolalia 2,961]

Jarnkrok currently has 21 points on a better coached and better built team that's 4th in their division.  I don't think we missed out on much there.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

9 hours ago, PavelValerievichDatsyuk said:

And why is Paul McCartney still considered a great musician? 'laurels' matter. 

And he does have some impressive laurels. Responsible for finding Lidstrom Holmstrom, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Kronwall, Franzen. He deserves all the respect he gets. But his success was partly based on being ahead of the curve, though. He went deeper into the european talent and had a great eye. Now the playing field is more even.

Since Franzen, players I've read he's been responsible for drafting are: Nyquist, Filppula, Hudler, Ericsson, Andersson, Axel Holmstrom, Malmstrom. I'm not sure how that compares to other individual scouts so it's hard to judge his resent pull. No great diamonds in the rough, but maybe regular for a scout with the picks that the Red Wings have had.

A scout who is currently employed vs. a musician who retired a long time ago isn't close to the same thing.

Most of those players, other than Ericsson, were known commodities, did nothing in the NHL, or haven't gotten there yet.  Any competent scout can find guys like them.  Andersson did well finding Homer, Zetterberg, Datsyuk, and Franzen, but people act like he's some kind of genius still when he really hasn't done anything special in a long time.

[krsmith17 7,191]

I agree with Dickie here, and I've said the same thing in the past as well. The great Hakan Andersson is still considered a genius for all of his great picks in the later rounds in the past, but he hasn't really had any big time steals since Zetterberg back in '99... For every one decent NHLer since then, there have been a dozen complete busts. I'm not (and I don't think Dickie is) trying to take anything away from what Hakan has done in the past, but to act like he is some guru that pulls elite talent out of the late rounds every single year, is way off.

For me, it's just an annoyance hearing people say, "we should have at least gotten a 7th rounder for 'him', so Andersson could work his magic"... I'm still hopeful that Holmstrom or Elfstrom develop into solid NHLers, but that's what I see as their ceiling, nothing more than "decent"...

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

I believe Holmstrom, Jarnkrok, Elfstrom, Ehn, and Malmstrom were all Hakan picks.

Not positive, but I believe Backman and Janmark were Hakan as well.

Not surprisingly that's all Swedes.

[frankgrimes 1,836]

46 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I agree with Dickie here, and I've said the same thing in the past as well. The great Hakan Andersson is still considered a genius for all of his great picks in the later rounds in the past, but he hasn't really had any big time steals since Zetterberg back in '99... For every one decent NHLer since then, there have been a dozen complete busts. I'm not (and I don't think Dickie is) trying to take anything away from what Hakan has done in the past, but to act like he is some guru that pulls elite talent out of the late rounds every single year, is way off.

For me, it's just an annoyance hearing people say, "we should have at least gotten a 7th rounder for 'him', so Andersson could work his magic"... I'm still hopeful that Holmstrom or Elfstrom develop into solid NHLers, but that's what I see as their ceiling, nothing more than "decent"...

And why? Because other teams have drastically increased their scouting efforts in europe it's almost impossible to find some gems in the later rounds now, that's why first round picks are so valuable in todays NHL. The Leafs have a great guy to oversee their scouting department in Marc Hunter but they've also had the pleasure of picking very early.

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

1 hour ago, DickieDunn said:

A scout who is currently employed vs. a musician who retired a long time ago isn't close to the same thing.

Most of those players, other than Ericsson, were known commodities, did nothing in the NHL, or haven't gotten there yet.  Any competent scout can find guys like them.  Andersson did well finding Homer, Zetterberg, Datsyuk, and Franzen, but people act like he's some kind of genius still when he really hasn't done anything special in a long time.

McCartney's not retired. He still puts out albums and tours. But his reputation is not based on his recent work which isn't groundbreaking. Hence why I used the parallel.

Hakan's recent picks haven't been steals, but they're probably what you expect from late picks. He's lost his advantage now that europe is thoroughly scouted. 

[chaps80 1,591]

4 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

We were badly short on centers at the time. Injuries.

Yeah, it was one of the top guys too. Datsyuk? It just seems like such a weird move looking back on it. Checking out his stats he had 11 points in 21 regular season games. Not bad. Nothing in the playoffs though, not that the Wings lasted long. Then took off for Ottawa. I forgot Eaves was part of that deal as well.

4 hours ago, Echolalia said:

Jarnkrok currently has 21 points on a better coached and better built team that's 4th in their division.  I don't think we missed out on much there.

No, but the Wings didn't have Legwand long either. I dunno if he ever really wanted to be in Detroit considering the playoff series they had with Nashville and the Wings always crushing their hopes. Haha But I know he was asking for too much money, and only Ottawa would pay it.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

5 minutes ago, chaps80 said:

Yeah, it was one of the top guys too. Datsyuk? It just seems like such a weird move looking back on it. Checking out his stats he had 11 points in 21 regular season games. Not bad. Nothing in the playoffs though, not that the Wings lasted long. Then took off for Ottawa. I forgot Eaves was part of that deal as well.

No, but the Wings didn't have Legwand long either. I dunno if he ever really wanted to be in Detroit considering the playoff series they had with Nashville and the Wings always crushing their hopes. Haha But I know he was asking for too much money, and only Ottawa would pay it.

Speaking of Eaves, he has 21 goals on the season now. Our highest is Vanek and AA tied at 14.

[chaps80 1,591]

10 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Speaking of Eaves, he has 21 goals on the season now. Our highest is Vanek and AA tied at 14.

Eaves always had talent. There was just no room for him in Detroit and he never reached his potential. He also plays on a line with Benn and Seguin in Dallas. I'm sure that doesn't hurt.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

3 minutes ago, chaps80 said:

Eaves always had talent. There was just no room for him in Detroit and he never reached his potential. He also plays on a line with Benn and Seguin in Dallas. I'm sure that doesn't hurt.

He played on the top line a few times under Babs, but not like he is with Ruff in Dallas

[chaps80 1,591]

49 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

He played on the top line a few times under Babs, but not like he is with Ruff in Dallas

Did he? Must not have been very often. I remember him on the bottom lines or a healthy scratch and injured a lot. Missed a full season with a concussion.

 

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Eaves had a good year in Carolina then had injury issues and didn't ever get healthy.

When they traded for Legwand Joakim Andersson was their best healthy center. They don't make the playoffs without that deal

Sent from my LGLS676 using Tapatalk

[kliq 3,755]

11 minutes ago, DickieDunn said:

When they traded for Legwand Joakim Andersson was their best healthy center. They don't make the playoffs without that deal

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Agreed, and I believe most teams would give up a below average prospect if it meant the difference between getting in the playoffs or not getting in.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

24 minutes ago, chaps80 said:

Did he? Must not have been very often. I remember him on the bottom lines or a healthy scratch and injured a lot. Missed a full season with a concussion.

 

It was not very often. Maybe a few games a year if that. However, always made me wonder why Babs did that with him and not other bottom 6 players like Miller etc.
I always thought it was for the RH shot, but I think Babs and Ruff both saw that Eaves had potential to be a decent contributor in the top 6. He's very smart player, just lacks some of the necessary talent.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/2017/02/ask_ansar_on_future_of_red_win_2.html#incart_river_index

Ansar's thoughts:

Quote

Blashill could be on the hot seat, but I don't think the club will replace him during the season. I think they'll evaluate after the season.

I think Blashill earned more time based on a track record of success everywhere he's been, including a Calder Cup championship with the Grand Rapids Griffins in 2013.

In regards to Assistant coaching changes...

Quote

If they were to make a change, I think it would start with the head coach and the new coach would decide the fate of the assistants. But, like I said above, I don't think that will happen in-season.

In regards to Vanek...

Quote

The Red Wings will probably wait until closer to the deadline to get the best possible return (guessing a second-rounder and perhaps an additional third- or fourth-round selection or maybe a prospect).

He's not coming back in the summer. He'll want a multi-year deal at a significant increase. The Red Wings won't have much cap space and have several younger players to sign over the next two seasons

Vanek, as much as he has enjoyed his time here, probably will want to go to a Stanley Cup contender, not a rebuilding team.

In regards to trading either Tatar or Nyquist...

Quote

Generally, only rentals are dealt leading up to the deadline, as Holland pointed out. If the Red Wings were to move either Nyquist or Tatar, it wouldn't be for futures (picks, prospects), they'd want in return a player who could help them now. That type of trade is more apt to happen in the off-season or well before the deadline.

In regards to trading Mike Green...

Quote

I consider Green a quasi-rental, since he has just one year remaining ($6 million, plus a no-trade clause). But I doubt he'll be moved because he's their only offensive threat on the blue line, someone they'll need next season, too.

In regards to young guns...

Quote

The 23-man roster restriction is lifted at the trade deadline, and if they have the cap space, they should get a look at some Griffins, one or two at a time. It would be good to see center Tomas Nosek, wingers Martin Frk and Evgeny Svechnikov and defenseman Robbie Russo for a few games.

So Blashill is here for the rest of year at the very least. Vanek is gone for good. Green likely staying for at least one more season. Perhaps a deal for Tatar or Nyquist will get done in offseason? Looking at you Trouba.

[chaps80 1,591]

2 hours ago, DickieDunn said:

Eaves had a good year in Carolina then had injury issues and didn't ever get healthy.

When they traded for Legwand Joakim Andersson was their best healthy center. They don't make the playoffs without that deal

Sent from my LGLS676 using Tapatalk
 

Not saying it was a bad deal. They didn't lose anyone significant for the 26 game rental, just Legwand was a weird target. He wasn't a player that would have the kind of impact to make the Wings a contender, especially at that stage of his career. He may have been the only guy available at a reasonable price though, and if the main goal was continuing The Streak, he helped get that done.

[chaps80 1,591]

2 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

It was not very often. Maybe a few games a year if that. However, always made me wonder why Babs did that with him and not other bottom 6 players like Miller etc.
I always thought it was for the RH shot, but I think Babs and Ruff both saw that Eaves had potential to be a decent contributor in the top 6. He's very smart player, just lacks some of the necessary talent.

Well he's shown if he's put with top players, he can compliment them and thrive. But if your lookin for him to be the key to your offence and a leader, wrong guy.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

12 minutes ago, chaps80 said:

Not saying it was a bad deal. They didn't lose anyone significant for the 26 game rental, just Legwand was a weird target. He wasn't a player that would have the kind of impact to make the Wings a contender, especially at that stage of his career. He may have been the only guy available at a reasonable price though, and if the main goal was continuing The Streak, he helped get that done.

He was willing to waive his NTC to come to Detroit. Hes a Detroit native. I think he was hoping it would be a new oppurtunity to earn a spot in a depleted line up. Holland probably thought the same. Didnt work out. Had a lot less gas in the tank than I think either party realized. It was an ok little experiment. Didnt cost us much. 

[chaps80 1,591]

2 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

He was willing to waive his NTC to come to Detroit. Hes a Detroit native. I think he was hoping it would be a new oppurtunity to earn a spot in a depleted line up. Holland probably thought the same. Didnt work out. Had a lot less gas in the tank than I think either party realized. It was an ok little experiment. Didnt cost us much. 

Yeah I knew he was a Detroit native. Didn't know about the NTC though. I read the reason he left was Holland wasn't gonna give him the money and term he wanted. Ottawa gave him 2 years at $3 million per. He did pretty good with them the next season. Played 70 games, got around 30 points, and helped them make the playoffs. Then he was traded to Buffalo in the Lehner deal and retired in December.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

16 hours ago, chaps80 said:

Yeah I knew he was a Detroit native. Didn't know about the NTC though. I read the reason he left was Holland wasn't gonna give him the money and term he wanted. Ottawa gave him 2 years at $3 million per. He did pretty good with them the next season. Played 70 games, got around 30 points, and helped them make the playoffs. Then he was traded to Buffalo in the Lehner deal and retired in December.

Not sure how he looked in Ottawa but he was pretty bad here and in Buffalo. Shame that Nashvilles first ever draft selection and long time #1 center had to go out that way. He's still their franchise leader in games played and points. Think he owns the Sarnia Sting now.