2017-18 Lines Thread

[Dabura 12,207]

1 hour ago, DickieDunn said:

So "the forseeable future" was a half a game before the lines went in a blender again.  And the obvious choice is to put Glendogmillionaire on the top line and play Larkin with 2 grinders.  How can anyone defend this moron?

I didn't get why everyone was taking him so literally. To me, he pretty clearly meant that those lines would be the standard "default state" lines, not that there would be absolutely no in-game juggling.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Linemates need to have chemistry.  You don't get chemistry in a period.  

[kickazz 5,459]

3 hours ago, DickieDunn said:

So "the forseeable future" was a half a game before the lines went in a blender again.  And the obvious choice is to put Glendogmillionaire on the top line and play Larkin with 2 grinders.  How can anyone defend this moron?

God, I am so proud that the nickname I coined is still in use. 

[Dabura 12,207]

44 minutes ago, DickieDunn said:

Linemates need to have chemistry.  You don't get chemistry in a period.  

I'm just saying people should've known what he meant when he said he was done mixing the lines up.

[krsmith17 7,191]

9 hours ago, Dabura said:

I'm just saying people should've known what he meant when he said he was done mixing the lines up.

I said from the beginning that I didn't believe what he was throwing out there. However, he did say that he was done line shuffling and the lines would stick. They didn't. In some cases, it was for a shift or two after a power-play or penalty kill. But there were also instances where he shuffled just to "shake things up" or "get players going". Which, by the way, I don't believe actually works. What I believe works is putting a line together and keeping them together for a  period of time, to allow them to gain chemistry. Constant line shuffling does nothing in my opinion. We did see Wilson - Helm - Glendening together for a couple shifts, which looked like a solid 4th line. Keep them together. The Athanasiou - Larkin - Mantha line looked good. Keep them together. Separate Nyquist and Tatar, they don't work well together in my opinion. Nyquist - Zetterberg - Abdelkader have worked well in the past. Keep them together. Tatar - Nielsen - Frk could work well. Try them together... Just find something that works, and stick to it for longer than a f***ing period...

[kickazz 5,459]

1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

I said from the beginning that I didn't believe what he was throwing out there. However, he did say that he was done line shuffling and the lines would stick. They didn't. In some cases, it was for a shift or two after a power-play or penalty kill. But there were also instances where he shuffled just to "shake things up" or "get players going". Which, by the way, I don't believe actually works. What I believe works is putting a line together and keeping them together for a  period of time, to allow them to gain chemistry. Constant line shuffling does nothing in my opinion. We did see Wilson - Helm - Glendening together for a couple shifts, which looked like a solid 4th line. Keep them together. The Athanasiou - Larkin - Mantha line looked good. Keep them together. Separate Nyquist and Tatar, they don't work well together in my opinion. Nyquist - Zetterberg - Abdelkader have worked well in the past. Keep them together. Tatar - Nielsen - Frk could work well. Try them together... Just find something that works, and stick to it for longer than a f***ing period...

Scotty Bowman would grin at this post. The master line juggler.

The problem is we suck. So as we suck Blashill gets anxiety and tries to juggle lines to try to win. If he just accepted the fact that we suck and won’t win games, maybe he wouldn’t be so prone to juggling the lines and just sticks with it, focusing on the long term like building chemistry between the younger players.

Edited October 29, 2017 by kickazz

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Bowman usually had a center and a wing who more or less stuck together, and the 3rd guy would move around.  Bowman was also one of, if not the best, coaches in NHL history.  Blashill is clueless.  

[Richdg 267]

Blashill knows that coaches that done win get fired. We can only hope. I don't watch the RW's because I want to see the wins atm. I know we are a sub .500 team. I watch to see how the young players are performing. The coach is holding them back trying to win. Yes he is stuck with the roster that Holland put together. We are short on talent. Yet Blashill is trying to win. it goes in circles. Looking at the talent on this team what would I do?

AA-Larkin-Mantha for 20+ mins per game. NEVER BREAK THIS LINE UP!

Abby-Z-Tatar for 15 mins+ per game.

Nyquist-Neilsson-Helm 15 mins per game

Rotate the group of Booth, Witkowski, Glendening, Wilson and when healthy Bertuzzi as needed for matchups each game. This group plays 10 mins or less per game.

After the first of the year bring up Svechnikov. By the start of next season make sure we have room for Svechnikov and Rasmussen FULL TIME! They are our future. Not Helm, Nyquist, Frk, Booth, Witkowski, Glendening, etc.....

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Helm, Glendening, and the rest of the PKere are going to play more in games with more penalties.  Abdelkader should be nowhere near a PP unit though.

 

So far, ES TOI breakdown:

Zetterberg 17:26 Going to get worn down

Nyquist 15:20 too much

Tatar 15:12 too much

Larkin 14:36 not enough

Mantha 14:16 not enough

Abdelkader 13:53 too much

Helm 12:37 about right

Nielsen 11:42 not enough

AA 11:31 not enough

Frk 9:29 needs to play more but only as the situation allows it.  Never out there for D-zone draws or last 5 minutes when leading.

Glendening 7:50 about right

 

Edited October 29, 2017 by DickieDunn

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

24 minutes ago, DickieDunn said:

Helm, Glendening, and the rest of the PKere are going to play more in games with more penalties.  Abdelkader should be nowhere near a PP unit though.

So far, ES TOI breakdown:

Zetterberg 17:26 Going to get worn down

Nyquist 15:20 too much,    Tatar 15:12 too much

Larkin 14:36 not enough,    Mantha 14:16 not enough

Abdelkader 13:53 too much,  Helm 12:37 about right

Nielsen 11:42 not enough,     AA 11:31 not enough

Frk 9:29 needs to play more but only as the situation allows it.  Never out there for D-zone draws or last 5 minutes when leading.

Glendening 7:50 about right

Abdelkader was tied for the most PP goals on the team last year (5). This year he has 1 which is also tied for most on the team. He works as the net front presence. 

https://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/DET/2017.html

[DickieDunn 2,571]

13 minutes ago, PavelValerievichDatsyuk said:

Abdelkader was tied for the most PP goals on the team last year (5). This year he has 1 which is also tied for most on the team. He works as the net front presence. 

https://www.hockey-reference.com/teams/DET/2017.html

that's like being the tallest person in Munchkin land.

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

8 minutes ago, DickieDunn said:

that's like being the tallest person in Munchkin land.

Yes, but when picking fruit in Munchkin land, you still need to use the guys that seem to be able to reach.

For the PP, he's the netfront guy. And he's probably our most effective at that. Mantha can do that job as well, but we need 2 - one for each PP group. Only other real option we have of a guy that would be a good screen, tipper, and can stand his ground in netfront battles would be Ericcsson maybe? Don't think many would want to try that. Despite his height, he would probably be the smallest in Munchkin land.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

who says you need to have someone standing in front of the net like that?  Just because it was effective with Homer out front tipping Lidstrom's shots doesn't mean you keep doing it with less effective players.  It's not working, they need to do something different.

 

Or don't, actually.  Tank it baby!

[kickazz 5,459]

@DickieDunn who would you rather have for net front presence than Abdelkader.

Just now, DickieDunn said:

who says you need to have someone standing in front of the net like that?  Just because it was effective with Homer out front tipping Lidstrom's shots doesn't mean you keep doing it with less effective players.  It's not working, they need to do something different.

 

Or don't, actually.  Tank it baby!

That’s besides the point. The PP strategy Red Wings have includes net front. With that fact said, who would you place in front if net if not Abdelkader on that unit? 

[PavelValerievichDatsyuk 1,935]

6 minutes ago, DickieDunn said:

who says you need to have someone standing in front of the net like that?  Just because it was effective with Homer out front tipping Lidstrom's shots doesn't mean you keep doing it with less effective players.  It's not working, they need to do something different.

Or don't, actually.  Tank it baby!

It's not just a Red Wing technique, though. It's pretty much conventional wisdom - take away the goalie's vision. Whether it's 1-3-1 or 1-2-2, the basic PP setups include that 1 guy at the top of the crease. Simmonds, does it for Philly, Chara does it Boston (or did it? haven't watched them in a while). Maybe when/if Rasmussen comes along we'll have a more skilled guy to play that role, but with who we have Abby is a good option for one of the PP units.

[Jacksoni 418]

Abby should stand at net given the squad. Errorson could probably fill in nicely if he isn't asked to tip of course. But blocking the goalie, battling the defense, rattling in an occasional lame goal, sure.

[Dabura 12,207]

8 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

I said from the beginning that I didn't believe what he was throwing out there. However, he did say that he was done line shuffling and the lines would stick. They didn't. In some cases, it was for a shift or two after a power-play or penalty kill. But there were also instances where he shuffled just to "shake things up" or "get players going". Which, by the way, I don't believe actually works. What I believe works is putting a line together and keeping them together for a  period of time, to allow them to gain chemistry. Constant line shuffling does nothing in my opinion. We did see Wilson - Helm - Glendening together for a couple shifts, which looked like a solid 4th line. Keep them together. The Athanasiou - Larkin - Mantha line looked good. Keep them together. Separate Nyquist and Tatar, they don't work well together in my opinion. Nyquist - Zetterberg - Abdelkader have worked well in the past. Keep them together. Tatar - Nielsen - Frk could work well. Try them together... Just find something that works, and stick to it for longer than a f***ing period...

[DickieDunn 2,571]

2 hours ago, Dabura said:

there's someone on redwingcenter that uses that exact same pic

[Dabura 12,207]

15 minutes ago, DickieDunn said:

there's someone on redwingcenter that uses that exact same pic

Ain't me!

[Buppy 1,720]

On 10/29/2017 at 10:06 AM, krsmith17 said:

I said from the beginning that I didn't believe what he was throwing out there. However, he did say that he was done line shuffling and the lines would stick. They didn't...

Actually, the lines were very consistent pretty much the entire game. One ~4 minute stretch late in the second period things went wonky, but were back to normal in the third. Aside from that the only disruptions were the normal things like penalties and misaligned on-the-fly changes. 

[krsmith17 7,191]

1 hour ago, Buppy said:

Actually, the lines were very consistent pretty much the entire game. One ~4 minute stretch late in the second period things went wonky, but were back to normal in the third. Aside from that the only disruptions were the normal things like penalties and misaligned on-the-fly changes. 

When players only spend 50-60% (much less for some) of even strength time on ice with the same players, I'd say the line blender was going. No he wasn't juggling the same as he usually does, but for someone that said less than 24 hours prior that he's "done playing with lines", I think it was a bit excessive. 

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

On 10/29/2017 at 12:32 PM, kickazz said:

@DickieDunn who would you rather have for net front presence than Abdelkader.

That’s besides the point. The PP strategy Red Wings have includes net front. With that fact said, who would you place in front if net if not Abdelkader on that unit? 

Larkin

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

On 10/28/2017 at 9:01 PM, kickazz said:

God, I am so proud that the nickname I coined is still in use. 

No you didnt

[kickazz 5,459]

14 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

No you didnt

Did too

http://www.letsgowings.com/forums/topic/81292-official-2016-detroit-red-wings-offseason-thread/?do=findComment&comment=2682011

Edited October 31, 2017 by kickazz

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

15 minutes ago, kickazz said:

Did too

http://www.letsgowings.com/forums/topic/81292-official-2016-detroit-red-wings-offseason-thread/?do=findComment&comment=2682011

Fight me