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ChristopherReevesLegs

2017-18 Lines Thread

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31 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

You don't need grit on the PP. You need someone who can cleanup rebounds. Being near the net, especially on the PP, is a good thing. 

You know who should be "cleaning up rebounds"? Skilled players. I would set up a large spread, with two players on the points, two players down low, and a player in the middle. You don't need a guy directly in front of the net to get at a rebound. Any time there's a shot from the point (or the half boards), you have two players on each side of the net, as well as a player in the high slot that can all collapse and pounce on rebounds. Anyway, agree to disagree I guess.

Personally, I'd have all the skill players on the two power-play units and the "grit" players on the penalty kill units. Teams dress 18 skaters every night. Coincidentally you need 10 players (8 forwards, 2 defensemen) for 2 power-play units, and 8 players (4 forwards, 4 defensemen) for 2 penalty kill units. I'd have Zetterberg, Nielsen, Nyquist, Tatar, Frk, Larkin, Mantha, Athanasiou, Green and Daley on the power-play, and Glendening, Abdelkader, Helm, Wilson, Kronwall, Ericsson, Ouellet, Jensen on the penalty kill units. That's just me though...

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1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

Or we can say f*** the untalented net front player, and go with a talented player in the high slot... Nah, that would never work... NEED MORE GRIT!

Who the f*** said that? You're just making up stuff now. Lol. 

18 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

You know who should be "cleaning up rebounds"? Skilled players. I would set up a large spread, with two players on the points, two players down low, and a player in the middle. You don't need a guy directly in front of the net to get at a rebound. Any time there's a shot from the point (or the half boards), you have two players on each side of the net, as well as a player in the high slot that can all collapse and pounce on rebounds. Anyway, agree to disagree I guess.

Personally, I'd have all the skill players on the two power-play units and the "grit" players on the penalty kill units. Teams dress 18 skaters every night. Coincidentally you need 10 players (8 forwards, 2 defensemen) for 2 power-play units, and 8 players (4 forwards, 4 defensemen) for 2 penalty kill units. I'd have Zetterberg, Nielsen, Nyquist, Tatar, Frk, Larkin, Mantha, Athanasiou, Green and Daley on the power-play, and Glendening, Abdelkader, Helm, Wilson, Kronwall, Ericsson, Ouellet, Jensen on the penalty kill units. That's just me though...

Abdelkader isn't grit. He's a powerforward. He scores goals when he's set up well, he's got moves on breakaways. Did you see the penalty shot he scored? He's also got a decent wrist shot. I have no clue where you're getting this idea that Abdelkader doesn't have skill. You seem to be generalizing a lot because you don't like the system right now. Abdelkader is 0% of the problem on the PP. He can play downlow, doesn't have to play net front. Even if we changed the PP set up it doesn't mean Abdelkader wouldn't be on the PP.

 

Edited by kickazz

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16 minutes ago, kickazz said:

Who the f*** said that? You're just making up stuff now. Lol. 

Abdelkader isn't grit. He's a powerforward. He scores goals when he's set up well, he's got moves on breakaways. Did you see the penalty shot he scored? He's also got a decent wrist shot. I have no clue where you're getting this idea that Abdelkader doesn't have skill. You seem to be generalizing a lot because you don't like the system right now. Abdelkader is 0% of the problem on the PP. He can play downlow, doesn't have to play net front. Even if we changed the PP set up it doesn't mean Abdelkader wouldn't be on the PP.

What would you call a "less skilled big body"? I assumed he was referring to grit. Maybe not, but that's what I'd call it. I'm not "making up stuff now. Lol."...

Abdelkader is a power forward in the same way that Brendan Smith is an offensive defenseman. It's true of both, but neither are very good at their respective roles... Stop trying to turn this into something it isn't though (like you always do). I'm arguing that the system we're using on the power-play is flawed, not the personnel we're using on it. I've said several times that Abdelkader isn't the issue with the power-play. If you want to argue Abdelkader, argue with Dickie. I only chimed in when the system was brought up. I've said my piece. That's it from me.

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2 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

What would you call a "less skilled big body"? I assumed he was referring to grit. Maybe not, but that's what I'd call it. I'm not "making up stuff now. Lol."...

Abdelkader is a power forward in the same way that Brendan Smith is an offensive defenseman. It's true of both, but neither are very good at their respective roles... Stop trying to turn this into something it isn't though (like you always do). I'm arguing that the system we're using on the power-play is flawed, not the personnel we're using on it. I've said several times that Abdelkader isn't the issue with the power-play. If you want to argue Abdelkader, argue with Dickie. I only chimed in when the system was brought up. I've said my piece. That's it from me.

I'm confused, you keep saying you don't think Abdelkader is the problem but then you are arguing about his grit sarcastically and Daley and Nielsen vs Abby for PP spot.  

So which one is it? 

Edited by kickazz

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2 minutes ago, kickazz said:

I'm confused, you keep saying you don't think Abdelkader is the problem but then you are arguing about his grit sarcastically and Daley and Nielsen vs Abby for PP spot.  

So which one is it? 

I do not think Abdelkader is the problem with the power-play. Nor do I think Kronwall is the problem with the power-play. However, I wouldn't have either on either unit. Neither are the reason we're only 15%. The biggest issue in my opinion, is the system being implemented, not the personnel being used. I don't think I can be any clearer than that...

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5 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I do not think Abdelkader is the problem with the power-play. Nor do I think Kronwall is the problem with the power-play. However, I wouldn't have either on either unit. Neither are the reason we're only 15%. The biggest issue in my opinion, is the system being implemented, not the personnel being used. I don't think I can be any clearer than that...

Sure, it is clear but who else would you rather have though? 

Anyways my post was directed at Dickie and you chimed in so then we kept going back and forth. I don't disagree the PP style can change but I doubt it will. My only point is Abby will still likely be on it. 

1 hour ago, DickieDunn said:

"I'm going to ignore 90% of the point you're making and demand you answer this one part within a narrowly defined window that makes it almost impossible for you to refute what I said."

 

Here's your post and main point from a few days ago. Not my problem if you're backtracking your decided to change your point to. "Well the PP system is the problem". That's another topic. Even if the system changed, Abby would still be on it, but you don't want that so I asked you for alternatives. 

 

On 10/29/2017 at 2:16 PM, DickieDunn said:

Helm, Glendening, and the rest of the PKere are going to play more in games with more penalties.  Abdelkader should be nowhere near a PP unit though.

 

Edited by kickazz

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6 minutes ago, kickazz said:

Sure, it is clear but who else would you rather have though?

I've already said I'd have Nielsen in over Abdelkader and Daley in over Kronwall. That idea is "stupid" and "idiotic" though, so whatever...

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17 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I've already said I'd have Nielsen in over Abdelkader and Daley in over Kronwall. That idea is "stupid" and "idiotic" though, so whatever...

So how would your Nielsen unit look and what kind of set up would you run with him?

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11 minutes ago, kickazz said:

So how would your Nielsen unit look and what kind of set up would you run with him?

I'm just repeating myself at this point, but I'd use him either on the point or down low (right side), and I'd be using a wide spread with a bumper in the middle (high slot). I'm not saying that would work, all I know for sure, is that's what we're currently doing isn't working. Try something different. Anything different really. But yeah, that's what I would try...

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21 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I'm just repeating myself at this point, but I'd use him either on the point or down low (right side), and I'd be using a wide spread with a bumper in the middle (high slot). I'm not saying that would work, all I know for sure, is that's what we're currently doing isn't working. Try something different. Anything different really. But yeah, that's what I would try...

Problem is Nielsen hasn't been good at all. I don't know if it's the age or what but he seems off this year. Maybe he picks it up, maybe he doesn't. 

Anyways, it's obviously a agree to disagree thing but I doubt our PP gets much better even with your change. We just aren't a good group dynamic overall. 

Edited by kickazz

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Player TOI CF/60 FF/60 SF/60 GF/60 xGF/60
ANDREAS.ATHANASIOU 80.23 94.98 69.55 44.12 8.23 6.39
MIKE.GREEN 223.69 90.93 68.4 47.48 6.44 7.05
FRANS.NIELSEN 201.12 101.73 71.3 48.33 6.26 7.05
JUSTIN.ABDELKADER 177.7 97.92 72.93 48.96 5.74 7.5
HENRIK.ZETTERBERG 271.58 85.94 64.29 43.74 5.3 6.93
NIKLAS.KRONWALL 157.57 85.68 63.97 44.17 4.57 6.01
GUSTAV.NYQUIST 239.07 90.85 67.01 45.18 4.52 6.44
DYLAN.LARKIN 174.82 97.81 71.73 49.77 4.46 5.61
TOMAS.TATAR 222.04 85.66 62.69 40.26 4.05 5.74
ANTHONY.MANTHA 142.52 83.78 58.1 39.15 3.79 5.37

 

Abby belongs on the PP. All things considered he may even be our best PP asset. If anything, we need another Abby for the 2nd unit.

A case can definitely be made for Nielsen, but in place of Nyquist or Tatar. (I wouldn't replace Larkin or Mantha for the sake of their development.)

(Frk and Daley haven't played enough, but so far Frk's numbers are good, Daley's over the last few years are around Kronwall levels.)

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9 minutes ago, Buppy said:
Player TOI CF/60 FF/60 SF/60 GF/60 xGF/60
ANDREAS.ATHANASIOU 80.23 94.98 69.55 44.12 8.23 6.39
MIKE.GREEN 223.69 90.93 68.4 47.48 6.44 7.05
FRANS.NIELSEN 201.12 101.73 71.3 48.33 6.26 7.05
JUSTIN.ABDELKADER 177.7 97.92 72.93 48.96 5.74 7.5
HENRIK.ZETTERBERG 271.58 85.94 64.29 43.74 5.3 6.93
NIKLAS.KRONWALL 157.57 85.68 63.97 44.17 4.57 6.01
GUSTAV.NYQUIST 239.07 90.85 67.01 45.18 4.52 6.44
DYLAN.LARKIN 174.82 97.81 71.73 49.77 4.46 5.61
TOMAS.TATAR 222.04 85.66 62.69 40.26 4.05 5.74
ANTHONY.MANTHA 142.52 83.78 58.1 39.15 3.79 5.37

 

Abby belongs on the PP. All things considered he may even be our best PP asset. If anything, we need another Abby for the 2nd unit.

A case can definitely be made for Nielsen, but in place of Nyquist or Tatar. (I wouldn't replace Larkin or Mantha for the sake of their development.)

(Frk and Daley haven't played enough, but so far Frk's numbers are good, Daley's over the last few years are around Kronwall levels.)

Alright well what's your opinion on changing up the style of PP, and do you still keep Abby even if we got rid of "net front" presence guy. 

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20 minutes ago, kickazz said:

Problem is Nielsen hasn't been good at all. I don't know if it's the age or what but he seems off this year. Maybe he picks it up, maybe he doesn't. 

Nielsen hasn't been great by any stretch, but what can we expect when he's played all season between Helm and Abdelkader (Frk for a short time)? He does have 4 goals, which is tied with Zetterberg and Nyquist for 2nd on the team. The assists aren't there because he doesn't really have anyone to pass to. He's had very little power-play time, so maybe that's exactly what he needs to get the offense going.

But speaking of his line mates, that's another one of my issues with the lines. Spread out the talent and we have a much better looking forward group in my opinion. There's no reason we couldn't have a 3rd line of Tatar - Nielsen - Frk (or something similar). That could have the potential to be one of the better 3rd lines in the league in my opinion.

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4 minutes ago, Buppy said:
Player TOI CF/60 FF/60 SF/60 GF/60 xGF/60
ANDREAS.ATHANASIOU 80.23 94.98 69.55 44.12 8.23 6.39
MIKE.GREEN 223.69 90.93 68.4 47.48 6.44 7.05
FRANS.NIELSEN 201.12 101.73 71.3 48.33 6.26 7.05
JUSTIN.ABDELKADER 177.7 97.92 72.93 48.96 5.74 7.5
HENRIK.ZETTERBERG 271.58 85.94 64.29 43.74 5.3 6.93
NIKLAS.KRONWALL 157.57 85.68 63.97 44.17 4.57 6.01
GUSTAV.NYQUIST 239.07 90.85 67.01 45.18 4.52 6.44
DYLAN.LARKIN 174.82 97.81 71.73 49.77 4.46 5.61
TOMAS.TATAR 222.04 85.66 62.69 40.26 4.05 5.74
ANTHONY.MANTHA 142.52 83.78 58.1 39.15 3.79 5.37

 

Abby belongs on the PP. All things considered he may even be our best PP asset. If anything, we need another Abby for the 2nd unit.

A case can definitely be made for Nielsen, but in place of Nyquist or Tatar. (I wouldn't replace Larkin or Mantha for the sake of their development.)

(Frk and Daley haven't played enough, but so far Frk's numbers are good, Daley's over the last few years are around Kronwall levels.)

Bingo.

The NHL stats site is being wonky right now, but pretty sure he is one of our PP points leaders since 2014-15. Abby is far from the problem with the PP. Even in a different system he would probably be one of the players used for his play down low.

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I don't really mind Abby in the net-front role. I feel having a really mobile, really skilled net-front player is more important when you're running a 1-3-1 formation, where the net guy has to be creative and really quick to get on pucks all around the net. We seem to be running more of "1.5-2.5-1" formation, with Frk and Tatar hovering at the tops of the circles, moving back and forth between the half-wall and the point as needed. It's more conservative; there's more of a safety net at the blue line, so Abby can play more of a park-your-ass-in-the-slot-and-screen-the-goalie role, which he's good at.

 

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1 hour ago, Dabura said:

I don't really mind Abby in the net-front role. I feel having a really mobile, really skilled net-front player is more important when you're running a 1-3-1 formation, where the net guy has to be creative and really quick to get on pucks all around the net. We seem to be running more of "1.5-2.5-1" formation, with Frk and Tatar hovering at the tops of the circles, moving back and forth between the half-wall and the point as needed. It's more conservative; there's more of a safety net at the blue line, so Abby can play more of a park-your-ass-in-the-slot-and-screen-the-goalie role, which he's good at.

 

This. Regardless of skill (for which he's underrated IMO), even if they sent him out there without a stick, he's still making it easier for everyone else on the PP to score.

 

6 hours ago, kickazz said:

Who the f*** said that? You're just making up stuff now. Lol. 

Abdelkader isn't grit. He's a powerforward. He scores goals when he's set up well, he's got moves on breakaways. Did you see the penalty shot he scored? He's also got a decent wrist shot. I have no clue where you're getting this idea that Abdelkader doesn't have skill. You seem to be generalizing a lot because you don't like the system right now. Abdelkader is 0% of the problem on the PP. He can play downlow, doesn't have to play net front. Even if we changed the PP set up it doesn't mean Abdelkader wouldn't be on the PP.

 

Apparently he's good with a piano.

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Name one defenseman currently on the Wings roster  who's from Sweden and whose last name begins with the letter E who is better than Ericsson.   Well, I'm waiting. Can't name anyone?  OK, that proves Ericsson isn't really that bad and anyone who doesn't think he should be on the PP is just spewing blind hatred.

 

#kickazzlogic

7 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

 

Apparently he's good with a piano.

Only when he's pulling one.  he sucks playing it.

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2 hours ago, DickieDunn said:

Name one defenseman currently on the Wings roster  who's from Sweden and whose last name begins with the letter E who is better than Ericsson.   Well, I'm waiting. Can't name anyone?  OK, that proves Ericsson isn't really that bad and anyone who doesn't think he should be on the PP is just spewing blind hatred.

 

#kickazzlogic

Only when he's pulling one.  he sucks playing it.

Ah so this is how you react when your cornered and get exposed into your own baseless premises.

Lets see now, that’s three posters that disproved you in 2 pages as to why your statement about Abdelkader not being on PP was baseless. Two of them provided statistical evidence. I wasn’t even one of them. 2 additional, nay 3 additional people who disagreed and provided reasons why. Total of 6 people. You, on the other hand just made your usual baseless point and get pissy when questioned about evidence. Larkin powerforward amiright? The new one is “Abdelkader not on PP evrn though he’s our best PP guy” 

hah, just take the loss and move on bro. Now you’re just looking to cover up your tracks.

You got called out on your Abdelkader statement. And your only response now is this lol. 

 

Edited by kickazz

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39 minutes ago, Juklitz said:

Booth on waivers, are we going to recall D for upcoming trip? 

Is there any other logical reason to waive a player at this point? Serious question. I'm not sure...

I'd like to call up Hicketts if he's going to play, but that would mean another player is banged up (haven't heard anything), and they're going to play him over Witkowski... I just don't see it happening...

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