Rumors Thread

[Jimmybigrigs69 371]

1 hour ago, Scott R Lucidi said:

GG.  I never liked that guy.  He wasnt right IN THE HEAD.

He was touched by the angels

[Jimmybigrigs69 371]

So Keith Gave - former detroit beat reporter - posted on X that the Wings org feels the league is anti detroit and actively unermines the wings and theyre not happy about it (he was responding in regards to things like losing lottery picks specifically)

Weve suspected this for years. Do you believe it? Do you believe it more now that Gave is reporting this is how the org feels?

[kipwinger 8,756]

On 3/27/2025 at 10:03 PM, Jimmybigrigs69 said:

So Keith Gave - former detroit beat reporter - posted on X that the Wings org feels the league is anti detroit and actively unermines the wings and theyre not happy about it (he was responding in regards to things like losing lottery picks specifically)

Weve suspected this for years. Do you believe it? Do you believe it more now that Gave is reporting this is how the org feels?

I didnt see his original post so take this with all appropriate caveats…

I dont think there is any bias. The Red Wings were one of the leagues best and most profitable businesses for 25 years. The league also has profit sharing (in the form of “hockey related revenue”). Why would the league actively collude to undermine a profitable team with the full understanding that it would take money away from every other team too? Which owner or GM would hatch that plot?
 

Instead they’ve undergone expansion (Vegas, Seattle) lately with the expressed goal of increasing hockey related revenue. The league wants a bigger pie to split up between the owners. Why would they then turn around and decrease the size of it by deliberately ruining a top earning team on purpose? It doesn’t make any sense. None of which is to say that the Wings haven’t had things to gripe about. They do. But there’s no conspiracy here because conspirators don’t typically hatch plots that ultimately only cost themselves millions of dollars in lost revenue. 

Edited March 29 by kipwinger

[mackel 763]

On 3/27/2025 at 11:03 PM, Jimmybigrigs69 said:

So Keith Gave - former detroit beat reporter - posted on X that the Wings org feels the league is anti detroit and actively unermines the wings and theyre not happy about it (he was responding in regards to things like losing lottery picks specifically)

Weve suspected this for years. Do you believe it? Do you believe it more now that Gave is reporting this is how the org feels?

There's lots of smoke for sure!

[Jimmybigrigs69 371]

Some juicey drama unfolding with NYR...

Calvin De Haan is reportedly very unhappy with how hes been treated in NY, and, according to himself, is prepared to unload about it once the season ends.

For reference, De Haan was with the Avs until the Rags traded for him at the TDL. The Rags played him in 3 games after being acquired (2 of which were shutout wins, and De Haan had zero goals scored against him in all 3 games) and then healthy scratched him for the remainder of the season. So essentially, they ripped him from a cup contender, didnt use him at all, and now the Rags have missed the playoffs.

Couple this with the other rumors:

>all the trouba drama that finally resulted in them trading their captain mid season

>Chytill mutually agreed to be traded, indicating the players lack of wanting to remain on the team

>Kakko also traded, and has mostly thrived since joining Seattle, unlike his time in NYR...

>rumors swirling about bad blood between GM Drury and assistant captain Chris Kreider..

>Lavy won them the pres trophy last year (year 1) but now has missed the playoffs the very next year... this doesnt happen often

>they circumvented Barclay Goodrows NTC by waiving him, and SJS agreeing to claim him, which Goodrow was publicly angry about

 

Will be interesting to see what unfolds. Hoping that De Haan and guys like Trouba trauma dump on us this offseason.

Edited April 13 by Jimmybigrigs69

[mackel 763]

2 hours ago, Jimmybigrigs69 said:

Some juicey drama unfolding with NYR...

Calvin De Haan is reportedly very unhappy with how hes been treated in NY, and, according to himself, is prepared to unload about it once the season ends.

For reference, De Haan was with the Avs until the Rags traded for him at the TDL. The Rags played him in 3 games after being acquired (2 of which were shutout wins, and De Haan had zero goals scored against him in all 3 games) and then healthy scratched him for the remainder of the season. So essentially, they ripped him from a cup contender, didnt use him at all, and now the Rags have missed the playoffs.

Couple this with the other rumors:

>all the trouba drama that finally resulted in them trading their captain mid season

>Chytill mutually agreed to be traded, indicating the players lack of wanting to remain on the team

>Kakko also traded, and has mostly thrived since joining Seattle, unlike his time in NYR...

>rumors swirling about bad blood between GM Drury and assistant captain Chris Kreider..

>Lavy won them the pres trophy last year (year 1) but now has missed the playoffs the very next year... this doesnt happen often

>they circumvented Barclay Goodrows NTC by waiving him, and SJS agreeing to claim him, which Goodrow was publicly angry about

 

Will be interesting to see what unfolds. Hoping that De Haan and guys like Trouba trauma dump on us this offseason.

That sounds like a toxic franchise... they'll likely be gifted another lotto win as a consequence. 

[Jimmybigrigs69 371]

1 hour ago, mackel said:

That sounds like a toxic franchise... they'll likely be gifted another lotto win as a consequence. 

I was stunned back when they fired Jeff Gorton. IMO he was one of the best GMs in the biz at that time. And it really seemed to me that they were just afraid of losing Chris Drury... like when we lost Yzerman to Tampa. So they canned him in favor of Chris.

Since then Drury hasnt done much of anything of note, and he seems to be skilled at pizzing off his own lockerrom.

This is why I think its super risky to hire guys like Yzerman or Drury. Because... what if you have to fire them?

Lotta rags fans want Drury gone, but Lebrun literally just reported that he has Dolan's full confidence and likely wont be fired this summer... lol

This is exactly the problem... Gorton built a great Rags team, but was seemingly easy to fire the moment he slipped up at all. And now Drury has mismanaged it completely, but is gonna be allowed to continue on... bc his name is loyal rags legend Chris Drury. 

[mackel 763]

On 4/13/2025 at 9:43 PM, Jimmybigrigs69 said:

I was stunned back when they fired Jeff Gorton. IMO he was one of the best GMs in the biz at that time. And it really seemed to me that they were just afraid of losing Chris Drury... like when we lost Yzerman to Tampa. So they canned him in favor of Chris.

Since then Drury hasnt done much of anything of note, and he seems to be skilled at pizzing off his own lockerrom.

This is why I think its super risky to hire guys like Yzerman or Drury. Because... what if you have to fire them?

Lotta rags fans want Drury gone, but Lebrun literally just reported that he has Dolan's full confidence and likely wont be fired this summer... lol

This is exactly the problem... Gorton built a great Rags team, but was seemingly easy to fire the moment he slipped up at all. And now Drury has mismanaged it completely, but is gonna be allowed to continue on... bc his name is loyal rags legend Chris Drury. 

Our mistake was letting Jim Nill walk. Stevie is too conservative... we've missed out because of it. When we had lots of cap he failed to weaponize it first picks.  That just the obvious.

[Jimmybigrigs69 371]

20 minutes ago, mackel said:

Our mistake was letting Jim Nill walk. Stevie is too conservative... we've missed out because of it. When we had lots of cap he failed to weaponize it first picks.  That just the obvious.

To be fair to stevie, im not convinced anyone else could do better. Hes hit on his 1st round picks (the ones you NEED to hit on) and his trading ability is actually very good. But i am seriously confused by, and disagree with, his lack of direction. As well his coaching choices. 

You can be the Scotty Bowman of GMs, but an inability to acquire the right personel or lead this team in a distinct direction will sink even the best. 

So basically i dont think hes a bad GM/hockey brain, but I do think he has made serious mistakes at this point. Mistakes he may come to regret. 

Edited April 15 by Jimmybigrigs69

[LeftWinger 5,132]

Yzerman needs to get Larionov in here as an assistant. 

[Jimmybigrigs69 371]

Interesting tidbit from Freidman...

Apparently the ask from the Sabres for Dylan Cozens was Marco Kasper, which SY routinely rejected.

Sabres ended up shipping Cozens to Ottawa for Josh Norris.

Reading mixed reactions from Sabres fans on this, but those who seem to be in the camp of Kasper wouldve been a better grab, are even saying they wouldve given up more than Cozens to snag Kasper. 

Though a homer, I tend to agree. Norris is a goal scoring nightmare, but he's older and has had significant injury issues. Kasper hasn't yet reached his peak and already plays a better 3 zone game. Big motor. Chippy. Can slot in anywhere in the lineup.

Glad Stephen held back on that one. 

[Dabura 12,232]

On 3/27/2025 at 10:03 PM, Jimmybigrigs69 said:

So Keith Gave - former detroit beat reporter - posted on X that the Wings org feels the league is anti detroit and actively unermines the wings and theyre not happy about it (he was responding in regards to things like losing lottery picks specifically)

Weve suspected this for years. Do you believe it? Do you believe it more now that Gave is reporting this is how the org feels?

We follow each other on X, so I'm morally obligated to say whatever he says is legit.

But Idk. This is probably a nothing scoop. Probably some guys in the front office venting a little too loudly because they got pantsed by the Habs and are now alcoholics.

[Dabura 12,232]

On 4/14/2025 at 10:50 PM, Jimmybigrigs69 said:

To be fair to stevie, im not convinced anyone else could do better. Hes hit on his 1st round picks (the ones you NEED to hit on) and his trading ability is actually very good. But i am seriously confused by, and disagree with, his lack of direction. As well his coaching choices. 

You can be the Scotty Bowman of GMs, but an inability to acquire the right personel or lead this team in a distinct direction will sink even the best. 

So basically i dont think hes a bad GM/hockey brain, but I do think he has made serious mistakes at this point. Mistakes he may come to regret. 

Yeah, I mostly agree.

I can forgive mistakes. We're human; mistakes will be made.

What I don't like is what I perceive to be complacency. I get that there's a plan. I get that we're waiting for our prospects and young roster players to blossom. But asking everyone to believe the kids are going to get it done when every team has good kids and every team is competitive...is asking a lot at this point.

At present, we don't really have an x factor. We have some very nice pieces. And no depth on the roster, somehow.

It's frustrating.

[Jimmybigrigs69 371]

4 hours ago, Dabura said:

Yeah, I mostly agree.

I can forgive mistakes. We're human; mistakes will be made.

What I don't like is what I perceive to be complacency. I get that there's a plan. I get that we're waiting for our prospects and young roster players to blossom. But asking everyone to believe the kids are going to get it done when every team has good kids and every team is competitive...is asking a lot at this point.

At present, we don't really have an x factor. We have some very nice pieces. And no depth on the roster, somehow.

It's frustrating.

If the plan is "tinker around the mushy middle" then I agree there is a plan. Otherwise I dont. 

For two seasons in a row now we have rolled into the TDL on our last legs, and in both instances the decision from SY has seemingly been "im praying too hard for playoffs too sell, but i also need my futures/prospects to build" so nothing. 

"The price of inaction is far greater than the cost of making a mistake" - some semi intelligent german Ahole

>buying (even minimal purchases) = morale boost for the lockerroom = morale boost for the consumer (at least you tried)

>selling = pressure off the lockerroom (no longer expected to win and therefore no longer your troops fault) = consumer at ease (looks to the future)

>doing nothing = lockerroom in shambles (you believe in them... but not really) = consumer confused by lack of direction and doubt about org competance begins creeping in

I know Ive been raging about this in in every thread. But its sooo fuqqing incompetant... im almost hoping someone will posit an argument that makes me see the silver lining. But to date ive found none. 

Unless there are some clownishly good moves up SYs sleeves this summer, this roster will be much the same next year, with much the same result. I could even see wheels falling off in Fall again, and we fire McClellan mid season. That reality is on the table right now. 

I wish Scott would come back already because his takes are always bizarrely ahead of everything - like the Alex Jones of LGW.

>HES PULLING AN YZERSCAM, DONT BELIEVE HIS LIES. HES KEEPING PLAYERS ON THE ROSTER TO TURN THE TEAM GRAY. 

>we laugh 

>1 year later... wait... there is no plan and our team is gray...???

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[Jimmybigrigs69 371]

Details emerging about the CHL rape case thats gone to trial...

I'll preface this by saying the allegations are horrifying and i do not condone them. But I found one of the allegations somewhat interesting.

Victim alledges that Cal Foote "stripped naked and did the splits over her, rubbing his genitals on her face"

DISGUSTING AND NO ONE HERE IS LOLING CAL

[Dabura 12,232]

On 4/20/2025 at 11:36 PM, Jimmybigrigs69 said:

If the plan is "tinker around the mushy middle" then I agree there is a plan. Otherwise I dont. 

For two seasons in a row now we have rolled into the TDL on our last legs, and in both instances the decision from SY has seemingly been "im praying too hard for playoffs too sell, but i also need my futures/prospects to build" so nothing. 

"The price of inaction is far greater than the cost of making a mistake" - some semi intelligent german Ahole

>buying (even minimal purchases) = morale boost for the lockerroom = morale boost for the consumer (at least you tried)

>selling = pressure off the lockerroom (no longer expected to win and therefore no longer your troops fault) = consumer at ease (looks to the future)

>doing nothing = lockerroom in shambles (you believe in them... but not really) = consumer confused by lack of direction and doubt about org competance begins creeping in

I know Ive been raging about this in in every thread. But its sooo fuqqing incompetant... im almost hoping someone will posit an argument that makes me see the silver lining. But to date ive found none. 

Unless there are some clownishly good moves up SYs sleeves this summer, this roster will be much the same next year, with much the same result. I could even see wheels falling off in Fall again, and we fire McClellan mid season. That reality is on the table right now. 

I wish Scott would come back already because his takes are always bizarrely ahead of everything - like the Alex Jones of LGW.

>HES PULLING AN YZERSCAM, DONT BELIEVE HIS LIES. HES KEEPING PLAYERS ON THE ROSTER TO TURN THE TEAM GRAY. 

>we laugh 

>1 year later... wait... there is no plan and our team is gray...???

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Well, the plan is to wait for the kids to magically turn us into a contender. Which sounds nice, but I'm not seeing it.

I mean, I like the pieces. Don't get me wrong. Raymond could be a 100-point player in his prime.

But if we're being brutally objective, it's looking like all Yzerman's really assembled is the bare minimum core you'd expect from a non-elite playoff team. We have a good 1C. We have a good 1D. We have a couple good scoring wingers. Edvinsson's good. Kasper's good. But if ASP isn't an absolute monster or Cossa isn't Carey Price...then I don't know what makes us special.

So, yeah: mushy middle.

[kipwinger 8,756]

6 hours ago, Dabura said:

Well, the plan is to wait for the kids to magically turn us into a contender. Which sounds nice, but I'm not seeing it.

I mean, I like the pieces. Don't get me wrong. Raymond could be a 100-point player in his prime.

But if we're being brutally objective, it's looking like all Yzerman's really assembled is the bare minimum core you'd expect from a non-elite playoff team. We have a good 1C. We have a good 1D. We have a couple good scoring wingers. Edvinsson's good. Kasper's good. But if ASP isn't an absolute monster or Cossa isn't Carey Price...then I don't know what makes us special.

So, yeah: mushy middle.

I don't agree with your conclusions. Recent history has shown that deep teams, with more top end talent throughout their lineup, are better than teams that have elite top end talent but not as much depth. I can't imagine too many GMs would rather be Edmonton than Florida despite the fact that the Oilers have the better "difference makers". Contrary to what most people think, I don't believe we need those pad the stats guys. We need guys that will allow Seider to go from 45 points to 65 (think Duncan Keith) points and still be a rock defensively. We need the guy who eats some defensive zone starts so Larkin can stay healthy and score 95 points. Same with Raymond. We haven't had those guys because we've've lacked qualtiy depth forever. So our top end guys get keyed on. Depth changes that. If Marco Kasper can eat those "Anthony Cirelli" type minutes, then Larkin gets to play "Brayden Point" type minutes. Same with Raymond and Seider. Those guys stand to gain a lot when they're not eating the best the opposition can throw at them for 20 mins a night.

[Jimmybigrigs69 371]

1 hour ago, kipwinger said:

I don't agree with your conclusions. Recent history has shown that deep teams, with more top end talent throughout their lineup, are better than teams that have elite top end talent but not as much depth. I can't imagine too many GMs would rather be Edmonton than Florida despite the fact that the Oilers have the better "difference makers". Contrary to what most people think, I don't believe we need those pad the stats guys. We need guys that will allow Seider to go from 45 points to 65 (think Duncan Keith) points and still be a rock defensively. We need the guy who eats some defensive zone starts so Larkin can stay healthy and score 95 points. Same with Raymond. We haven't had those guys because we've've lacked qualtiy depth forever. So our top end guys get keyed on. Depth changes that. If Marco Kasper can eat those "Anthony Cirelli" type minutes, then Larkin gets to play "Brayden Point" type minutes. Same with Raymond and Seider. Those guys stand to gain a lot when they're not eating the best the opposition can throw at them for 20 mins a night.

Who TF cares about these semantics at this point?

Larkin's been taken off the PK. Copp takes on the elites. Larks still not producing and now whining publicly.

Seider gained a legit teammate in Edvinsson. Still playing like the neutered version of his rookie self. 

I highly doubt Marco Kasper is the key depth piece that magically fixes this roster from top down.

Maybe injecting a true "difference maker" turns the middle mush around. Maybe injecting 5 more solid depth pieces does the same. Who TF cares? Neither is happening anytime near soon.

This roster is still so far from competitive its sad. 

We have a cultural problem that starts from the top down. Yzerman has accomplished none of his goals. 6 seasons in and we're employing an interim emergency coach picked up mid season because no other team wanted him. We have a captain that is morally shattered, publicly disastisfied with the team, and IMO has learned to be a "loser". Our other leader - Kane - already has his cups and is content coasting into retirement on a builder. Only reason he's even here is bc Detroit is perfectly nestled between his home in Illinois and his home in Buffalo. 

Team needs a collosal facelift shakeup IMHO. 

[Jimmybigrigs69 371]

Pagnotta reports Todd is planning a big shakeup and rework of the coaching staff.

>Yawney - i dont see him leaving. Hes been Todds right hand man everywhere with him. 

>Tanguay - maybe gone? But I thought he did well with his responsibilities, PP and scoring. 

>Westlund - again id be surprised. Its been reported the wings are very happy with the new goalie coaches work.

>Varaday - as good as gone.

Surely a big shakeup cant mean just Varaday?

[Dabura 12,232]

On 4/24/2025 at 4:25 PM, kipwinger said:

I don't agree with your conclusions. Recent history has shown that deep teams, with more top end talent throughout their lineup, are better than teams that have elite top end talent but not as much depth. I can't imagine too many GMs would rather be Edmonton than Florida despite the fact that the Oilers have the better "difference makers". Contrary to what most people think, I don't believe we need those pad the stats guys. We need guys that will allow Seider to go from 45 points to 65 (think Duncan Keith) points and still be a rock defensively. We need the guy who eats some defensive zone starts so Larkin can stay healthy and score 95 points. Same with Raymond. We haven't had those guys because we've've lacked qualtiy depth forever. So our top end guys get keyed on. Depth changes that. If Marco Kasper can eat those "Anthony Cirelli" type minutes, then Larkin gets to play "Brayden Point" type minutes. Same with Raymond and Seider. Those guys stand to gain a lot when they're not eating the best the opposition can throw at them for 20 mins a night.

My point is we don't pop in either of the senses you're describing; we don't have 5,000-point scorers and we're not particularly deep.

In a perfect world, we're Florida and we just run over everyone because we have no holes and our big guns kill and we forecheck like our lives depend on it. But teams like that are rare. My "realistic" hope is we become a team that's a pain in the ass to play against because every player is good and pulls his weight. But this is two straight seasons now that our personnel has wilted when the intensity ramped up and the stakes got real. A serious team doesn't drop both of those Columbus games.

So, we can talk about Brayden Point...but do we have a lot of Brayden Points? Do we have any? Do we have x factors? Do we have the ingredients we need to become a team that gets it done in [insert any way you want]?

To be fair, this is fan fatigue and frustration talking; I'm not being super-objective. But I look across the table at the super-objective crowd and it's just stats nerds and podcast bros (but I repeat myself) who will spend this summer writing Athletic pieces about how Yzerman needs to weaponize our cap space and take on some bad contracts in exchange for second-round picks, because that's how you build a winner.

It's not all bad. Like I said, we do have good pieces. Edvinsson could end up being better than Seider; that's how good a rookie season he just had, imo. Kasper's a breath of fresh air. DeBrincat silenced his critics this season; he was great. Raymond's just getting started. ASP could be a gamechanger, or at least a really good complement to Seider and Edvinsson. (Maybe.)

But is this going to be enough? Have we planted the seeds of perennial contention? Is time the only thing that separates us from glory? Or do we just have a lot of nice pieces and are we all going to feel quite silly if Carter Mazur's career is over before it even began?

These are the questions that should be keeping Yzerman up at night.

[Jimmybigrigs69 371]

5 hours ago, Jimmybigrigs69 said:

Pagnotta reports Todd is planning a big shakeup and rework of the coaching staff.

>Yawney - i dont see him leaving. Hes been Todds right hand man everywhere with him. 

>Tanguay - maybe gone? But I thought he did well with his responsibilities, PP and scoring. 

>Westlund - again id be surprised. Its been reported the wings are very happy with the new goalie coaches work.

>Varaday - as good as gone.

Surely a big shakeup cant mean just Varaday?

Shapiro reports Westlund is out. 

I believe Bultman had reported Wings being pleased with him, but that was under Lalonde I think. 

[kipwinger 8,756]

11 hours ago, Dabura said:

My point is we don't pop in either of the senses you're describing; we don't have 5,000-point scorers and we're not particularly deep.

In a perfect world, we're Florida and we just run over everyone because we have no holes and our big guns kill and we forecheck like our lives depend on it. But teams like that are rare. My "realistic" hope is we become a team that's a pain in the ass to play against because every player is good and pulls his weight. But this is two straight seasons now that our personnel has wilted when the intensity ramped up and the stakes got real. A serious team doesn't drop both of those Columbus games.

So, we can talk about Brayden Point...but do we have a lot of Brayden Points? Do we have any? Do we have x factors? Do we have the ingredients we need to become a team that gets it done in [insert any way you want]?

To be fair, this is fan fatigue and frustration talking; I'm not being super-objective. But I look across the table at the super-objective crowd and it's just stats nerds and podcast bros (but I repeat myself) who will spend this summer writing Athletic pieces about how Yzerman needs to weaponize our cap space and take on some bad contracts in exchange for second-round picks, because that's how you build a winner.

It's not all bad. Like I said, we do have good pieces. Edvinsson could end up being better than Seider; that's how good a rookie season he just had, imo. Kasper's a breath of fresh air. DeBrincat silenced his critics this season; he was great. Raymond's just getting started. ASP could be a gamechanger, or at least a really good complement to Seider and Edvinsson. (Maybe.)

But is this going to be enough? Have we planted the seeds of perennial contention? Is time the only thing that separates us from glory? Or do we just have a lot of nice pieces and are we all going to feel quite silly if Carter Mazur's career is over before it even began?

These are the questions that should be keeping Yzerman up at night.

I think Yzerman is still building this "particularly deep" lineup. Add Danielson and ASP and Cossa and Augustine and Mazur and and and...

Since SY has taken over the plan was never to build around Larkin. Larkin (if he's still around) will be the old man on the Cup team. Just like Yzerman was. The actual core of the team started with Seider. I think @Jimmybigrigs69said the exact same thing years ago. The Red Wings didn't win diddly squat when Yzerman was their best player. They started winning when Lidstrom and Fedorov were their best players. Florida won a President's Trophy BEFORE they traded for Tkachuk. Yzerman is building a team of work horses and then he's (hoping) to go get a superstar or two to put them over the top.

And it's not like his track record on this has been bad. His workhorses keep exceeding expectations. He's accomplishing the mission. I think you could argue that it's the periphery moves that are killing the momentum. For example, we drafted TWO absolute units on defense and they're were/are both playing out of their minds at an EXTREMELY early part of their careers. Things couldn't have gone better with Seider and Edvinsson and our defense still blows because we've surrounded them with puds. And it's not like we just couldn't land better talent. We ALREADY HAD IT. Swap Walman, Gostisbehere, and Maatta for Gustafsson, Petry, and Holl and your defense isn't a total nightmare. Keep one of Sprong or Fabbri instead of Motte and maybe our even strength scoring isn't absolutely abysmal. Swap Perron for Tarasenko and your team has a pulse...

...then add the Edvinsson, Kasper, Johansson, Sodorblom that we saw this season and you're looking at a much better team. Maybe not a contender, but a playoff team for sure. And you keep building from there.

Nobody can blame this season on "too many kids, not enough experience". Our pro scouting has absolutely f*cked this team for two seasons in a row. Combined with the fact that Lalonde (and the organization as whole) has a default preference for milktoast puds who "defend well" over dynamic players who bring a number of other elements to the table. They justified Motte's roster spot because of his PK "prowess" and our PK is historically bad. Gustafson was supposed to be a cheaper, more defensively responsible, version of Ghost. In reality he's barely cheaper and no better defensively, but MUCH worse offensively. Tarasenko costs more, and scores less than any of Fabbri, Perron, or Sprong.

There's no problem with Yzerman's plan (build around HIS draft picks). That's actually going really really well. The problem is that no team is built entirely of their own draft picks. And when SY and the gang flesh out the rest of the roster they routinely shoot themselves in the foot.

[LeftWinger 5,132]

On 4/25/2025 at 10:30 PM, Jimmybigrigs69 said:

Shapiro reports Westlund is out. 

I believe Bultman had reported Wings being pleased with him, but that was under Lalonde I think. 

I'm ready for Larionov to replace Varady. I am not sure about any goalie coaches. How well do former goalies do in that role? Does Ed Belfour still live locally in Michigan?

[Dabura 12,232]

On 4/26/2025 at 10:39 AM, kipwinger said:

I think Yzerman is still building this "particularly deep" lineup. Add Danielson and ASP and Cossa and Augustine and Mazur and and and...

Since SY has taken over the plan was never to build around Larkin. Larkin (if he's still around) will be the old man on the Cup team. Just like Yzerman was. The actual core of the team started with Seider. I think @Jimmybigrigs69said the exact same thing years ago. The Red Wings didn't win diddly squat when Yzerman was their best player. They started winning when Lidstrom and Fedorov were their best players. Florida won a President's Trophy BEFORE they traded for Tkachuk. Yzerman is building a team of work horses and then he's (hoping) to go get a superstar or two to put them over the top.

And it's not like his track record on this has been bad. His workhorses keep exceeding expectations. He's accomplishing the mission. I think you could argue that it's the periphery moves that are killing the momentum. For example, we drafted TWO absolute units on defense and they're were/are both playing out of their minds at an EXTREMELY early part of their careers. Things couldn't have gone better with Seider and Edvinsson and our defense still blows because we've surrounded them with puds. And it's not like we just couldn't land better talent. We ALREADY HAD IT. Swap Walman, Gostisbehere, and Maatta for Gustafsson, Petry, and Holl and your defense isn't a total nightmare. Keep one of Sprong or Fabbri instead of Motte and maybe our even strength scoring isn't absolutely abysmal. Swap Perron for Tarasenko and your team has a pulse...

...then add the Edvinsson, Kasper, Johansson, Sodorblom that we saw this season and you're looking at a much better team. Maybe not a contender, but a playoff team for sure. And you keep building from there.

Nobody can blame this season on "too many kids, not enough experience". Our pro scouting has absolutely f*cked this team for two seasons in a row. Combined with the fact that Lalonde (and the organization as whole) has a default preference for milktoast puds who "defend well" over dynamic players who bring a number of other elements to the table. They justified Motte's roster spot because of his PK "prowess" and our PK is historically bad. Gustafson was supposed to be a cheaper, more defensively responsible, version of Ghost. In reality he's barely cheaper and no better defensively, but MUCH worse offensively. Tarasenko costs more, and scores less than any of Fabbri, Perron, or Sprong.

There's no problem with Yzerman's plan (build around HIS draft picks). That's actually going really really well. The problem is that no team is built entirely of their own draft picks. And when SY and the gang flesh out the rest of the roster they routinely shoot themselves in the foot.

Yeah, I don't think you and I really hardcore disagree.

Yzerman's picks are becoming NHLers and the pro scouting is boning us hard. At the end of the day, it's a question of how much faith you have in the youth. Personally, I like our young pieces. I can talk them up better than anyone can talk them up. I see the potential; it's obvious.

Like, if a Sabres fan (the only fan we can dunk on with a straight face at this point, alas) steps to me with "Yzerfraud can't draft," I'd say Seider and Edvinsson were both 6th overall picks. They're gonna be logging insane minutes for a long, long time. They're gonna be playing in all situations. They're gonna be shutting down superstars and racking up points. These are players you get with top-3 picks.

I wanted us to take Kasper. I've always felt - and still feel - everyone's wrong when they say his absolute ceiling is a fringe 2C.

I could go on.

So I'm definitely not blind to the good work Yzerman's done.

But!

But. But. But.

I'm concerned. There's no way around it for me at this point.

What's the difference between a mediocre team and a team with a lot of good players but nothing that really sets the team apart from half the other teams in the league?

That's my fear. That all of Yzerman's picks could "be players" and it may not even matter because there's never that moment where everything clicks into place. My fear is Larkin hits 32 and we're just a fringe playoff team that gets overwhelmed by deeper teams and elite players who win close games in overtime.

Is this rooted in airtight logic? Nah. I'm talking vibes. I freely concede that. Because we're all going on vibes at this point. Because vibes is kinda all we have.

"So what is it you want?"

Well, I don't really want Mitch Marner. I think we "need" a Marner, but I think I'm like you (and please correct me if I'm misrepresenting you here) in that I wonder what the hell our pro scouts actually do for a living. Which is to say: If we could, you know, bring in outside help actually helps, we're probably not even having this conversation. Doesn't have to (and probably shouldn't) be a $14M player. Just get us some actual good established players.

I want to see what this team really is when it isn't weighed down by useless bloat. I want Yzerman to "be here now" instead of saying "I'm going to sign this plug for three years because three years from now is when this prospect will be ready."

So that's why "the plan" frustrates me. I think the plan, at this point, is working against itself. Yzerman wants to incubate the youth and is willing to wait another ten years, but I think the youth is ready to roll and Yzerman's just kinda like "Yeah, ok, but winning now could mean losing later. I want a team that's gonna be competitive for the next 40 years." And the team keeps collapsing. And losing becomes the default expectation. And "all of a sudden" we're Buffalo and the cancer is terminal.

I don't want to become Buffalo.

[kipwinger 8,756]

23 hours ago, Dabura said:

Yeah, I don't think you and I really hardcore disagree.

Yzerman's picks are becoming NHLers and the pro scouting is boning us hard. At the end of the day, it's a question of how much faith you have in the youth. Personally, I like our young pieces. I can talk them up better than anyone can talk them up. I see the potential; it's obvious.

Like, if a Sabres fan (the only fan we can dunk on with a straight face at this point, alas) steps to me with "Yzerfraud can't draft," I'd say Seider and Edvinsson were both 6th overall picks. They're gonna be logging insane minutes for a long, long time. They're gonna be playing in all situations. They're gonna be shutting down superstars and racking up points. These are players you get with top-3 picks.

I wanted us to take Kasper. I've always felt - and still feel - everyone's wrong when they say his absolute ceiling is a fringe 2C.

I could go on.

So I'm definitely not blind to the good work Yzerman's done.

But!

But. But. But.

I'm concerned. There's no way around it for me at this point.

What's the difference between a mediocre team and a team with a lot of good players but nothing that really sets the team apart from half the other teams in the league?

That's my fear. That all of Yzerman's picks could "be players" and it may not even matter because there's never that moment where everything clicks into place. My fear is Larkin hits 32 and we're just a fringe playoff team that gets overwhelmed by deeper teams and elite players who win close games in overtime.

Is this rooted in airtight logic? Nah. I'm talking vibes. I freely concede that. Because we're all going on vibes at this point. Because vibes is kinda all we have.

"So what is it you want?"

Well, I don't really want Mitch Marner. I think we "need" a Marner, but I think I'm like you (and please correct me if I'm misrepresenting you here) in that I wonder what the hell our pro scouts actually do for a living. Which is to say: If we could, you know, bring in outside help actually helps, we're probably not even having this conversation. Doesn't have to (and probably shouldn't) be a $14M player. Just get us some actual good established players.

I want to see what this team really is when it isn't weighed down by useless bloat. I want Yzerman to "be here now" instead of saying "I'm going to sign this plug for three years because three years from now is when this prospect will be ready."

So that's why "the plan" frustrates me. I think the plan, at this point, is working against itself. Yzerman wants to incubate the youth and is willing to wait another ten years, but I think the youth is ready to roll and Yzerman's just kinda like "Yeah, ok, but winning now could mean losing later. I want a team that's gonna be competitive for the next 40 years." And the team keeps collapsing. And losing becomes the default expectation. And "all of a sudden" we're Buffalo and the cancer is terminal.

I don't want to become Buffalo.

Article just dropped this week that said Larkin had the 2nd hardest forward usage IN THE ENTIRE LEAGUE. Dude does yeoman’s work, and was injured at the 4 nations, and still scored 30 goals and 70 points. Most years he scores 80+ with that usage. As we get more depth that usage will ease and he’ll score 90+ on a winning team. Where does the depth come from? Maybe the 20 year old 2C who just broke out this season under McClellan. Raymond will score the same, 80-90 pts. Cat will score 35+ goals. Ed and Seider will lock down the back end. All we need is for our goalies to pan out and our core looks good. Then we just need to flesh out the lineup with quality depth and thankfully we have a ton of pieces to make it happen. 
 

Every team would be better with a MacKinnon or McDavid for sure. But lots of teams are winning playoff games right now without those guys so I don’t think the lack of a premium piece is our issue.