Rumors Thread

[LoveMyRedWings56 73]

6 minutes ago, Rick D said:

Isn't there a 10% rule too? I'm pretty sure Franzen + Kronwall =  > 10% of total cap.

Yup even if the cap increases to say $80 million next summer, 10% of $80 million is $8 million and Kronwall @ $4.75 million and Franzen @ $3.985 would exceed that limit.

[kliq 3,755]

5 minutes ago, Rick D said:

Isn't there a 10% rule too? I'm pretty sure Franzen + Kronwall =  > 10% of total cap.

I dont think that would apply to us, but I could be wrong. The Leafs have Lupol/Horton on LTIR right now and I dont see anything about that on CapFriendly. Those two are about 2mil more then Kronwall/Franzen, so if they dont have it, I would assume we wouldnt. Not 100% sure how that works.

https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/mapleleafs

Just now, LoveMyRedWings56 said:

Yup even if the cap increases to say $80 million next summer, 10% of $80 million is $8 million and Kronwall @ $4.75 million and Franzen @ $3.985 would exceed that limit.

So where would that be applied on the site?

https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/mapleleafs

[LoveMyRedWings56 73]

4 minutes ago, kliq said:

I dont think that would apply to us, but I could be wrong. The Leafs have Lupol/Horton on LTIR right now and I dont see anything about that on CapFriendly. Those two are about 2mil more then Kronwall/Franzen, so if they dont have it, I would assume we wouldnt. Not 100% sure how that works.

https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/mapleleafs

So where would that be applied on the site?

https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/mapleleafs

I'm not really sure what tool you would use have never done it like that before. But like you said the Leafs have Lupul/Horton on LTIR and they exceed the 10% threshold by quite a bit so it should affect us at all.

[Buppy 1,720]

There is no limit to LTIR. 

The 10% rule is that you can only exceed the cap by 10% during the off-season. You can't use LTIR then, so it could potentially prevent us from using the maximum relief for both Franzen and Kronwall, though in practice we would most likely be promoting some kids from GR and they wouldn't count toward the off-season cap anyway. Very unlikely we would have any problem.

However, Kronwall has been holding up well so far this year, and playing decently too. LTIR is probably a moot point.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

The only players I want brought in are guys just entering their prime through trade, or legit high end players who are 27 or 28 through free agency.  I have no interest in guys 30+, or middle of the road player.  Detroit has enough 2nd pair d-men.  Carlson is #4 in defense scoring, plays over 26 minutes a game, plays in all situations.  He's a #1.  IF he makes it to free agency, and IF he wants to come to Detroit, both of which I think are unlikely, they should take him, provided they don't have to give him a stupid amount of money.  7x7 would be good.

[Richdg 267]

If you take this team right now and subtract Kronwall and Ericsson and replace them with OEL and Carlson-same money currently BTW, we are at least 12 points higher in the standings and fighting for the PO's. Even with our crappy coaching. Add in a good coach and we are pushing for the league lead in points. Yes our BL is that bad. Yes OEL and Carlson are that good. OEL is 26 and Carlson is 27. Prime of their careers. Guys we badly need! Add a guy like Cole or De Haan to pair with Dekeyser and now we have a legit top 4. It really is that simple. Not easy to do mind you and I fully understand all the troubles with making it happen. But a great GM could make it happen. Maybe......

But that is the type of moves I am talking about. There is no one player brought in that will fix everything. We need a few guys on the BL that put everyone on the right pair playing at the correct level and we get a whole lot better. We don't need 10 guys, we dont need to turn over the entire roster. 3 could do it very quickly. Yes it would take a ton of luck.

Keep in mind the names I am using are really examples. There are dozens of others guys that could also fit in and do the job. But I use them becasue De Haan, Cole, and Carlson are UFA's this year and then next year Karlson, Doughty, and OEL are UFA's.

[krsmith17 7,191]

Bertuzzi was recalled again today. I guess Glendening is still out. Hopefully Bert has a better showing in this stint.

[LeftWinger 4,966]

I can see us moving four players at the deadline.

Green, XO, Nyquist/Tatar, Mrazek. 

[krsmith17 7,191]

3 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

I can see us moving four players at the deadline.

Green, XO, Nyquist/Tatar, Mrazek. 

I'd be completely okay with this, as long as the return is decent for each.

[kliq 3,755]

8 hours ago, DickieDunn said:

The only players I want brought in are guys just entering their prime through trade, or legit high end players who are 27 or 28 through free agency.  I have no interest in guys 30+, or middle of the road player.  Detroit has enough 2nd pair d-men.  Carlson is #4 in defense scoring, plays over 26 minutes a game, plays in all situations.  He's a #1.  IF he makes it to free agency, and IF he wants to come to Detroit, both of which I think are unlikely, they should take him, provided they don't have to give him a stupid amount of money.  7x7 would be good.

That's the issue, being the #1 D-man in this years UFA class, someone will give him stupid money. Also, while he may be 4th in points, having guys like Backstrom, Ovie etc playing in front of you is a HUGE factor as I'm guessing alot of those points are assists. He won't be #4 in points on Detroit.

5 hours ago, Richdg said:

If you take this team right now and subtract Kronwall and Ericsson and replace them with OEL and Carlson-same money currently BTW, we are at least 12 points higher in the standings and fighting for the PO's. Even with our crappy coaching. Add in a good coach and we are pushing for the league lead in points. Yes our BL is that bad. Yes OEL and Carlson are that good. OEL is 26 and Carlson is 27. Prime of their careers. Guys we badly need! Add a guy like Cole or De Haan to pair with Dekeyser and now we have a legit top 4. It really is that simple. Not easy to do mind you and I fully understand all the troubles with making it happen. But a great GM could make it happen. Maybe......

But that is the type of moves I am talking about. There is no one player brought in that will fix everything. We need a few guys on the BL that put everyone on the right pair playing at the correct level and we get a whole lot better. We don't need 10 guys, we dont need to turn over the entire roster. 3 could do it very quickly. Yes it would take a ton of luck.

Keep in mind the names I am using are really examples. There are dozens of others guys that could also fit in and do the job. But I use them becasue De Haan, Cole, and Carlson are UFA's this year and then next year Karlson, Doughty, and OEL are UFA's.

Like I said, if we can get an elite D-man (ie. Karlson, Doughty, and OEL) then that is a game changer. If we get a guy like De Haan, Cole, or Carlson, that doesnt do much.

Edited December 22, 2017 by kliq

[Richdg 267]

13 minutes ago, kliq said:

That's the issue, being the #1 D-man in this years UFA class, someone will give him stupid money. Also, while he may be 4th in points, having guys like Backstrom, Ovie etc playing in front of you is a HUGE factor as I'm guessing alot of those points are assists. He won't be #4 in points on Detroit.

Like I said, if we can get an elite D-man (ie. Karlson, Doughty, and OEL) then that is a game changer. If we get a guy like De Haan, Cole, or Carlson, that doesnt do much.

I dont get why you wouldnt want a top 30 Dman in the league? We need a true #1, a true #2-which is what Carlson is, and a #4 which is what De Haan and Cole are. 10 years ago when we were good was it because we only had Lidstrom or was it because we had Lidstrom, Rafalski, Kronwall, and Stuart? It takes more than 1.

Shattenkirk was the only big name UFA last year and he got 4 years at 6.5 per year. Why do you beleive that Carlkson is going to get so much more? 7 year at 7 per is a major contract and what he should get, which is a good rate for a #2 Dman.

Just for a reference.... Bob McKenzie was talking before the game that the Kings are hoping to get Doughty resigned for 8 years and anything less than 12 million per year. Now lets take a look at the numbers for Doughty and Carlson for the last 4 full seasons.

Doughty: 324 games 43 goals 178 pts. 586 hits 449 blocks 62 takeaways

Carlson: 292 games 39 goals 168 pts 292 hits 618 blocks 171 takeaways

Is there really any diference between the 2? Most would say that Doughty is one of the top 5 Dman in the league. So what does that make Carlson? If we can get Carlson for 7 years at 7 million per we are lucky! If we can do it for 7 years at 8 million per year we are doing great!

[kliq 3,755]

35 minutes ago, Richdg said:

I dont get why you wouldnt want a top 30 Dman in the league? We need a true #1, a true #2-which is what Carlson is, and a #4 which is what De Haan and Cole are. 10 years ago when we were good was it because we only had Lidstrom or was it because we had Lidstrom, Rafalski, Kronwall, and Stuart? It takes more than 1.

Shattenkirk was the only big name UFA last year and he got 4 years at 6.5 per year. Why do you beleive that Carlkson is going to get so much more? 7 year at 7 per is a major contract and what he should get, which is a good rate for a #2 Dman.

Just for a reference.... Bob McKenzie was talking before the game that the Kings are hoping to get Doughty resigned for 8 years and anything less than 12 million per year. Now lets take a look at the numbers for Doughty and Carlson for the last 4 full seasons.

Doughty: 324 games 43 goals 178 pts. 586 hits 449 blocks 62 takeaways

Carlson: 292 games 39 goals 168 pts 292 hits 618 blocks 171 takeaways

Is there really any diference between the 2? Most would say that Doughty is one of the top 5 Dman in the league. So what does that make Carlson? If we can get Carlson for 7 years at 7 million per we are lucky! If we can do it for 7 years at 8 million per year we are doing great!

I'm sorry man, but I just don't trust your judgement when it comes to D. You have been so wrong so many times. From saying that KarIsson is a "top 10 D man" and "overrated" to saying that "Daley is toast" to now implying Doughty and Carlson are the same, you have proven to be way off with your assessments. Its not that I dont want a top 30 d-man, if we were able to sign any of the big 3, I would be good with that. What I dont want is for our team to handcuff ourselves cap wise more then we already are. 

Look, IF Carlson signs here at a reasonable deal, and IF we are able to trade E, and IF  Kronwall did go to LTIR, I would be ok with signing him, but those things are not going to all happen. Our focus right now needs to be shedding cap (not adding), signing our RFA's, and trying to acquire elite players through the draft or UFA. 

I'm not sure why you are so obsessed with DeHaan and Cole. You are talking about them like they are a huge part of the solution here, but I dont think I have heard anyone....media, bloggers, or even posters agree or even sing a similar tune. They are middle tier players, and to buyout middle tier players, only to bring in more expensive middle tier players IMO is pointless.

Your plan will make us a 6th or 7th seed, but I dont want to go back to 2013. We need a plan at this point to go back to 2008. You build your nucleus first, then you add around it. You want to do it the other way around.

 

[DickieDunn 2,571]

Saying Carlson isn't a legit #1 is wrong.  Is he elite, best of the best, Lidstrom/Pronger/Borque level?  Nope.  But he's better than almost every other d-man in the league.  Name 20 who are clearly better and I'll concede that he's "just" a #2.

[Richdg 267]

1 hour ago, kliq said:

I'm sorry man, but I just don't trust your judgement when it comes to D. You have been so wrong so many times. From saying that KarIsson is a "top 10 D man" and "overrated" to saying that "Daley is toast" to now implying Doughty and Carlson are the same, you have proven to be way off with your assessments. Its not that I dont want a top 30 d-man, if we were able to sign any of the big 3, I would be good with that. What I dont want is for our team to handcuff ourselves cap wise more then we already are. 

Look, IF Carlson signs here at a reasonable deal, and IF we are able to trade E, and IF  Kronwall did go to LTIR, I would be ok with signing him, but those things are not going to all happen. Our focus right now needs to be shedding cap (not adding), signing our RFA's, and trying to acquire elite players through the draft or UFA. 

I'm not sure why you are so obsessed with DeHaan and Cole. You are talking about them like they are a huge part of the solution here, but I dont think I have heard anyone....media, bloggers, or even posters agree or even sing a similar tune. They are middle tier players, and to buyout middle tier players, only to bring in more expensive middle tier players IMO is pointless.

Your plan will make us a 6th or 7th seed, but I dont want to go back to 2013. We need a plan at this point to go back to 2008. You build your nucleus first, then you add around it. You want to do it the other way around.

 

None of what I said is wrong at all. yes Karlson is a top 10 Dman. There is no debate. You happen to believe he is THE best. That would be top 10 right? I don't think I have ever called him over rated. Fairly sure I said over hyped. Big difference.

Daley is toast. he was over valued when he came. This is his 13th season. He has had 1 season were he scored 30+ points. he is 34. Doesnt play over 70 games very often anymore-1 time in the last 4 seasons. A typical year for him was about 25 points.

That being said, you know what other Dmen that are 26 and 28 that put up 25 points per year? Oh ya De Haan and Cole. Think Brad Stuart. They fill out our top 4, not make it. Big difference. Both can also be signed for less than what Ericsson currently makes and provide double the O and better D. No these are not guys that you sign to 7 years deals or 6+ million per year. These are guys that you sign to 4 year 16 million deals. Again guys that fill out your top 4.

Now if we had a top 4 of Carlson, Dekeyser, De Haan, and Cole that group is still way better than what we have currently. Its not even close. Now dream of the OEL, Carlson, dekeyser and 1 of De Haan/Cole. That would be one of the 5 best BL corps in the league. Thats what I want. All under 30, signed long term.

Again the names can be changed. There are many players that fit the description of what I am talking about.

Now back to rumors. It is widely being said that the Pens are still looking for a 3rd C that can score. Wonder if they would have any interest in Neilsson? He can score and might want to go play on a team competing for cups? Just a thought. The player being rumored to be used to help get the 3rd C that can score is Cole. So Neilsson and a 3rd to Pitt for Cole and their 1st. Resign Cole to a 3 or 4 year deal no more than 4 million per. BL gets better, Cap hit goes down and we add another 1st in a deep draft.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

13 minutes ago, Richdg said:

None of what I said is wrong at all. yes Karlson is a top 10 Dman. There is no debate. You happen to believe he is THE best. That would be top 10 right? I don't think I have ever called him over rated. Fairly sure I said over hyped. Big difference.

Daley is toast. he was over valued when he came. This is his 13th season. He has had 1 season were he scored 30+ points. he is 34. Doesnt play over 70 games very often anymore-1 time in the last 4 seasons. A typical year for him was about 25 points.

That being said, you know what other Dmen that are 26 and 28 that put up 25 points per year? Oh ya De Haan and Cole. Think Brad Stuart. They fill out our top 4, not make it. Big difference. Both can also be signed for less than what Ericsson currently makes and provide double the O and better D. No these are not guys that you sign to 7 years deals or 6+ million per year. These are guys that you sign to 4 year 16 million deals. Again guys that fill out your top 4.

Now if we had a top 4 of Carlson, Dekeyser, De Haan, and Cole that group is still way better than what we have currently. Its not even close. Now dream of the OEL, Carlson, dekeyser and 1 of De Haan/Cole. That would be one of the 5 best BL corps in the league. Thats what I want. All under 30, signed long term.

Again the names can be changed. There are many players that fit the description of what I am talking about.

Now back to rumors. It is widely being said that the Pens are still looking for a 3rd C that can score. Wonder if they would have any interest in Neilsson? He can score and might want to go play on a team competing for cups? Just a thought. The player being rumored to be used to help get the 3rd C that can score is Cole. So Neilsson and a 3rd to Pitt for Cole and their 1st. Resign Cole to a 3 or 4 year deal no more than 4 million per. BL gets better, Cap hit goes down and we add another 1st in a deep draft.

Newsflash: we don't have deHann or Cole

Followup news flash: no one in the league gives a flying duck about dehann or cole

[kliq 3,755]

1 hour ago, DickieDunn said:

Saying Carlson isn't a legit #1 is wrong.  Is he elite, best of the best, Lidstrom/Pronger/Borque level?  Nope.  But he's better than almost every other d-man in the league.  Name 20 who are clearly better and I'll concede that he's "just" a #2.

I think we are on the same page Dickie. In Washington, I agree he is a #1. My worry is that if he comes here on a big contract, without guys like Ovie, Backstrom etc. he will regress and we will be stuck with another contract that we dont want. I want an elite D-man. I know, easier said then done.

Serious question, if you were Holland or the new GM, would you give Carlson 7x7 like Rich is suggesting? 

Edited December 22, 2017 by kliq

[kliq 3,755]

18 minutes ago, Richdg said:

None of what I said is wrong at all. yes Karlson is a top 10 Dman. There is no debate. You happen to believe he is THE best. That would be top 10 right? I don't think I have ever called him over rated. Fairly sure I said over hyped. Big difference.

Daley is toast. he was over valued when he came. This is his 13th season. He has had 1 season were he scored 30+ points. he is 34. Doesnt play over 70 games very often anymore-1 time in the last 4 seasons. A typical year for him was about 25 points.

That being said, you know what other Dmen that are 26 and 28 that put up 25 points per year? Oh ya De Haan and Cole. Think Brad Stuart. They fill out our top 4, not make it. Big difference. Both can also be signed for less than what Ericsson currently makes and provide double the O and better D. No these are not guys that you sign to 7 years deals or 6+ million per year. These are guys that you sign to 4 year 16 million deals. Again guys that fill out your top 4.

Now if we had a top 4 of Carlson, Dekeyser, De Haan, and Cole that group is still way better than what we have currently. Its not even close. Now dream of the OEL, Carlson, dekeyser and 1 of De Haan/Cole. That would be one of the 5 best BL corps in the league. Thats what I want. All under 30, signed long term.

Again the names can be changed. There are many players that fit the description of what I am talking about.

Now back to rumors. It is widely being said that the Pens are still looking for a 3rd C that can score. Wonder if they would have any interest in Neilsson? He can score and might want to go play on a team competing for cups? Just a thought. The player being rumored to be used to help get the 3rd C that can score is Cole. So Neilsson and a 3rd to Pitt for Cole and their 1st. Resign Cole to a 3 or 4 year deal no more than 4 million per. BL gets better, Cap hit goes down and we add another 1st in a deep draft.

When you say a guy is "top 10" the implication is that he is in the 5-10 range. If you thought he was top 5, you would say "top 5". 

This is why your arguments are not taken seriously, you say whatever you need to in an attempt to sell your points.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

1 hour ago, kliq said:

I think we are on the same page Dickie. In Washington, I agree he is a #1. My worry is that if he comes here on a big contract, without guys like Ovie, Backstrom etc. he will regress and we will be stuck with another contract that we dont want. I want an elite D-man. I know, easier said then done.

Serious question, if you were Holland or the new GM, would you give Carlson 7x7 like Rich is suggesting? 

With a legit NHL coach, and I can't see any way Blashill is brought back next year, I think Carlson would still be a legit #1 here.  His point total might drop, but the roster isn't as bad as it's played.  They'd need a player to replace Green, maybe even bring Green back after he's traded, but Carlson added to the defense would go a long way to solidifying it.  Everyone else would slide down a notch role-wise, which would help performance.  

Bottom line is a guy like Carlson is the closest thing to an elite guy they're going to get barring grabbing one in the draft, which is more luck than anything else, or a Chara-type heist in a trade. 

[kliq 3,755]

48 minutes ago, DickieDunn said:

With a legit NHL coach, and I can't see any way Blashill is brought back next year, I think Carlson would still be a legit #1 here.  His point total might drop, but the roster isn't as bad as it's played.  They'd need a player to replace Green, maybe even bring Green back after he's traded, but Carlson added to the defense would go a long way to solidifying it.  Everyone else would slide down a notch role-wise, which would help performance.  

Bottom line is a guy like Carlson is the closest thing to an elite guy they're going to get barring grabbing one in the draft, which is more luck than anything else, or a Chara-type heist in a trade. 

7x7 though?

[krsmith17 7,191]

5 hours ago, kliq said:

I think we are on the same page Dickie. In Washington, I agree he is a #1. My worry is that if he comes here on a big contract, without guys like Ovie, Backstrom etc. he will regress and we will be stuck with another contract that we dont want. I want an elite D-man. I know, easier said then done.

Serious question, if you were Holland or the new GM, would you give Carlson 7x7 like Rich is suggesting? 

Yes, I'd sign Carlson to $7x7 in a heartbeat, if we had the cap space. I'd hope he'd make the cap space if Carlson were willing to sign. Unfortunately, a lot of other things would have to go right in order for us to have a shot at Carlson or any other big name UFA. Not going to happen...

[LoveMyRedWings56 73]

15 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

I can see us moving four players at the deadline.

Green, XO, Nyquist/Tatar, Mrazek. 

Doubt Nyquist gets moved at the trade deadline if he gets moved at all it might be at the draft, Green is definitely getting moved not sure about Mrazek unless a starter goes down and who honestly wants XO.

[krsmith17 7,191]

44 minutes ago, LoveMyRedWings56 said:

Doubt Nyquist gets moved at the trade deadline if he gets moved at all it might be at the draft, Green is definitely getting moved not sure about Mrazek unless a starter goes down and who honestly wants XO.

Teams are always looking for depth at the deadline. Granted it's usually for pending UFA's, but Nyquist is a solid 40-50 point, top 6 winger on a cap friendly contract with only one year remaining. A team like Nashville, San Jose or Columbus could use an added offensive punch for a playoff run. I doubt Holland will shop him now, or at the draft, but I'm sure if he were to shop him, there would be plenty of interest. And in my opinion, there would be more at the deadline then there would be at the draft.

Most, but not every move made on and leading up to the deadline are "deadline trades" though, some are actual "hockey trades". If the organization is done with Mrazek, it would be wise to move him sooner than later. A team like Arizona, who obviously have zero chance at the playoffs, could be a good fit. That would be a hockey trade, and one that I could see happening.

Lots of teams are looking for defensive depth at the deadline, and Ouellet could be a good cheap option. Of course we're not going to get much for him, but I'd take a mid round pick for him in a heartbeat.

 

[kliq 3,755]

7 hours ago, kliq said:

7x7 though?

For the record, I’m not anti Carlson, im Anti rich’s plan. I have my hesitations about him, but I don’t think he’s a bad player or anything. 

I don’t think I would give him 7x7, reason being that if he shows any type of regression, we are screwed.

[Dabura 12,207]

55 minutes ago, kliq said:

I don’t think I would give him 7x7, reason being that if he shows any type of regression, we are screwed.

This.

[DickieDunn 2,571]

8 hours ago, kliq said:

7x7 though?

That's the going rate for that caliber of player, yes.

1 hour ago, kliq said:

For the record, I’m not anti Carlson, im Anti rich’s plan. I have my hesitations about him, but I don’t think he’s a bad player or anything. 

I don’t think I would give him 7x7, reason being that if he shows any type of regression, we are screwed.

The same thing can be said for anyone.  He's 27, his best years are ahead of him.