The next captian: #39 Anthony Mantha!

[krsmith17 7,191]

 @chaps80, I think you'd be hard pressed to find (m)any that would agree with you on Abby getting the C. I guess you never know, stranger things have happened, but I'd be shocked if it were anyone other than Larkin. I'd say 98% chance Larkin, 1% chance Abdelkader, 0.5% chance DeKeyser, and 0.5% chance other...

Just curious though, let's say Abdelkader were the next Red Wings captain. Would you be happy with that decision? Or do you just think that's who it will be, but should be someone else?

[kliq 3,755]

2 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

How can Abby het the C?  He's a third liner.  That's not going to happen.

Agreed....we're not Chicago. Good Point!

[kickazz 5,459]

17 minutes ago, kliq said:

Agreed....we're not Chicago. Good Point!

Can’t believe that trash captain gets paid $10.5 million or whatever. Blackhawks should be fined for that crime. 

Use that $5 million from his salary and donate it to charity or something 

[chaps80 1,591]

1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

 @chaps80, I think you'd be hard pressed to find (m)any that would agree with you on Abby getting the C. I guess you never know, stranger things have happened, but I'd be shocked if it were anyone other than Larkin. I'd say 98% chance Larkin, 1% chance Abdelkader, 0.5% chance DeKeyser, and 0.5% chance other...

Just curious though, let's say Abdelkader were the next Red Wings captain. Would you be happy with that decision? Or do you just think that's who it will be, but should be someone else?

I’d be fine with it. Many captains are former assistant captains who move up, natural progression. Abby may not be the best player on the team, but a captaincy is more than just being the best. Hatcher was captain In Minnesota/Dallas for over a decade before Modano got it. He’s the longest serving captain the that franchises history. It’s about leadership, locker room motivational skills, being visible and available to media ( Abby seems to actually enjoy that and knows how to handle it), among other things.

I’d rather see a seasoned 12-15 year veteran with a Cup ring and another Finals appearance take the C than a kid who’s got 3-5 years in by the time Z vacates it.

Edited November 26, 2017 by chaps80

[kliq 3,755]

10 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

https://www.easports.com/nhl/news/2017/nhl-18-player-ratings-top-10-centers

 

Do you agree that he is tied for 6th best center in the league?

I know your asking @kickazz, but joking aside, I've always said I put him at the Bergeron/Kopitar level. My issue is when people put him at the Crosby/McDavid/Malkin level.

Edited November 26, 2017 by kliq

[kliq 3,755]

1 hour ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

That is a perfect way to say it.  Another way is - he is generational talent only to his team.  Not the league.  Much the same way Yzerman was.  

Agree with the bold, won't agree with the Yzerman comparison. 

Edited November 27, 2017 by kliq

[Dabura 12,207]

Yzerman was a bum! Should've traded him for Yashin!

[kliq 3,755]

2 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Ok.  I dont put yzerman in the same category as Gretzky and Lemieux.  But I wont harp on you if you do.  He was awesome.

I dont put Yzerman in the same category as Lemieux/Gretzky who are arguably the two best ever, but I also dont put him in the same category as Toews/Bergeron/Kopitar. I put him in the middle with guys like Jagr and Sakic.

Towes/Bergeron/Kopitar are NEVER winning a Hart Trophy, guys like Jagr, Sakic, Yzerman were more then capable (Yzerman's only mistake was playing at the same time as Gretzky/Lemieux.)

[Euro_Twins 4,476]

10 hours ago, chaps80 said:

I’d be fine with it. Many captains are former assistant captains who move up, natural progression. Abby may not be the best player on the team, but a captaincy is more than just being the best. Hatcher was captain In Minnesota/Dallas for over a decade before Modano got it. He’s the longest serving captain the that franchises history. It’s about leadership, locker room motivational skills, being visible and available to media ( Abby seems to actually enjoy that and knows how to handle it), among other things.

I’d rather see a seasoned 12-15 year veteran with a Cup ring and another Finals appearance take the C than a kid who’s got 3-5 years in by the time Z vacates it.

Abby never got a cup ring though. And he was 4th line scrub in 09 only playing 10 playoff games 

Edited November 27, 2017 by Euro_Twins

[kickazz 5,459]

4 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Ok.  I dont put yzerman in the same category as Gretzky and Lemieux.  But I wont harp on you if you do.  He was awesome.

Yzerman was easily the 3rd/ 4th best player in the league. Generational talent. Toews was no where close to that. At best Toews might have been a top 10 player maybe for a year or two but has since fallen off completely. Crosby, Malkin, Kane, Seguin, Tavares, Ovechkin and many more are better players. 

You're also the guy who put Toews above Datsyuk. Datsyuk would skate circles around Toews and leave his jockstrap in Kane's mom's apartment all the same time. 

Edited November 27, 2017 by kickazz

[Wheelchairsuperhero 1,453]

3 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Yzerman said Toews is a better player than he was, so this doesn't make much sense.  Are you saying Yzerman is a liar?

It's called modesty. To think Toews is anywhere near an Yzerman type level is crazy. Toews is so overrated it's absurd.

[kickazz 5,459]

6 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Yzerman said Toews is a better player than he was, so this doesn't make much sense.  Are you saying Yzerman is a liar?

Yeah. Yzerman was on crack making a politically correct statement. It happens to the best of them. Thankfully Toews disagreed with the statement. I also think you trying to use that as your argument makes sense since 90% of your arguments are dumber than Jim Carey from dumb and dumber.

Add it to the burn book Stacey. 

[kliq 3,755]

51 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Same amount of cups, conn smythes, selkes, gold medals, etc etc etc.

 

I have a hard time finding 2 players who are more similar than Toews and cup years Yzerman.  Pre-Bowman (no defense) Yzerman was different.  That's for sure.

@kickazz I'm sorry lol. This is my fault

We are just going down the same road we have gone down a million times. Normally I would call out the fact that the majority of these accomplishments are team related, but we have literally had this conversation before.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

19 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

https://www.easports.com/nhl/news/2017/nhl-18-player-ratings-top-10-centers

 

Do you agree that he is tied for 6th best center in the league?

I would say he's top 10. I think 6th is high tho.

 

17 hours ago, Dabura said:

Yzerman was a bum! Should've traded him for Yashin!

OMG, I completely forgot that that was ever a thing. I always look at that Ottawa situation like the Cuban Missile Crisis. You are so thankful that things DID'NT work out differently.

 

15 hours ago, kliq said:

I dont put Yzerman in the same category as Lemieux/Gretzky who are arguably the two best ever, but I also dont put him in the same category as Toews/Bergeron/Kopitar. I put him in the middle with guys like Jagr and Sakic.

Towes/Bergeron/Kopitar are NEVER winning a Hart Trophy, guys like Jagr, Sakic, Yzerman were more then capable (Yzerman's only mistake was playing at the same time as Gretzky/Lemieux.)

I agree with the bold. Y had all the tools I think to come close to Lemieux/Gretzky,  but had to make sacrifices for the team. I wonder sometimes how history would view him if he continued to play like he did pre-Bowman. His numbers would be phenomenal, but with less cup success. He never really could have it both ways. 

I still think he's better than guys like Sakic tho (both as a player and GM ). Lemieux and Gretzky are unarguably in the top 5 all time. Stevie's not, but I think I would put him in the 20-25 range. Is that legit, or am I being a homer.

13 hours ago, kickazz said:

Yzerman was easily the 3rd/ 4th best player in the league. Generational talent. Toews was no where close to that. At best Toews might have been a top 10 player maybe for a year or two but has since fallen off completely. Crosby, Malkin, Kane, Seguin, Tavares, Ovechkin and many more are better players. 

You're also the guy who put Toews above Datsyuk. Datsyuk would skate circles around Toews and leave his jockstrap in Kane's mom's apartment all the same time. 

 Totally agree with the bold. He was a generational talent both in his physical skill on the ice and his intangibles off it. Toews never was, never will be that. Both Y and Toews know it. Guys like Yzerman in all sports say stuff like that all the time. It's what you do. No one believes them.

BTW, does anyone remember when THN was calling Larkin the next Toews? Are we still thinking that's a good thing? Cuz I would still be happy with that.

[kickazz 5,459]

4 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

It crushes your whole belief system, so of course you dismiss it.

 

Stacie I get that only one side of your brain works at a time but search your feelings, you know Yzerman was trying to be politically correct and being modest to the media. So much so that even Toews laughed it off. 

But I'm not surprised that you actually believe what Yzerman said, sometimes 50% brain capacity makes it hard to understand things.  

Did you know that according to Yzerman, unicorns are real and horses poop smells like strawberries? In Stacie's world that is truth. In the real world, that's called talking out your ass. 

Do you need another pen for the burn book? I know I've dissed your trolling style at least 50 times this year you must be running out of ink. If you're going to troll, learn from smarter people like the rest of us here. There's a reason why you've been banned from 5 different accounts. You're just bad at it. 

Your move. 

Edited November 27, 2017 by kickazz

[kickazz 5,459]

3 hours ago, kliq said:

@kickazz I'm sorry lol. This is my fault

Nothing to be sorry about, @Jonas Mahonas is my lunch this afternoon. 

Edited November 27, 2017 by kickazz

[kickazz 5,459]

1 hour ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

https://www.thescore.com/news/773910

 

When Toews laughed it off, he was just being pc.  He knows he's better.

No one gives a s*** about what Toews thinks though since he’s overrated and sucks. Circular argument finished.

Game, set, match.

[kliq 3,755]

5 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

I still think he's better than guys like Sakic tho (both as a player and GM ).

I think he's better then Sakic as well. But if you were to put players in tiers, then I would place Yzerman/Sakic/Jagr/Forsberg all in the same tier, I would just have Yzerman at the top of it.

He's hands down better then guys like Toews/Bergeron/Kopitar but hes just not at the level of guys like Lemieux and Gretzky.

I think the same can be said for guys like Jagr, Forsberg and Sakic. Or can I not use Forsberg because he "mediocre"

[Euro_Twins 4,476]

Toews has won just as many cups as yzerman in a shorter time, does that make him a better captain? Probably, better player, no. 

[Dabura 12,207]

5 minutes ago, Euro_Twins said:

Toews has won just as many cups as yzerman in a shorter time, does that make him a better captain? Probably, better player, no. 

Why would that make him a better captain?

[Euro_Twins 4,476]

1 hour ago, Dabura said:

Why would that make him a better captain?

3 cups with potential for more as captain. 

[kickazz 5,459]

1 hour ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Those same people you are talking about that you say dont give a shyte about what Toews thinks are just being pc, though.  They really care, and thus you are still inside the circle of BUST.

 

Now go get your shinebox.

Dumb post.

Which means.

Intelligent Response. 

Edited November 28, 2017 by kickazz

[kliq 3,755]

17 minutes ago, Euro_Twins said:

3 cups with potential for more as captain. 

I think the only way to determine who the better captain is, would be to ask players who played under both. Cups is tough, because winning cups is a combination of leadership, talent, roster management, coaching, chemistry, strength of opponents, and even luck. No doubt both are/were good leaders, but I think its impossible to say who was better (as a leader).

Who was better as a player, its not even close.

[kickazz 5,459]

Toews is 29 and produces at a worse rate than 37 year old Zetterberg. Just putting it out there that he's a trash player. If anyone thinks otherwise, take the TSN Media hype glasses off. 

And the "well he's a defensive player" excuses won't work. Datsyuk and Zetterberg and Kopitar are/were phenomenal defensive players that scored well over a PPG. Toews can't do it because he sucks. 

I don't even think Toews is at Kopitar's level. I think he was at some point years ago but it's safe to say Kopitar has maintained his level of play while Toews has simply fallen off. Toews is the next Dustin Brown of hockey. But at least Brown is making a comeback.

Edited November 28, 2017 by kickazz

[chaps80 1,591]

22 hours ago, Euro_Twins said:

Abby never got a cup ring though. And he was 4th line scrub in 09 only playing 10 playoff games 

He skated with the Cup and was given a ring, but didn’t have his name engraved on the Cup. Played ten games the following playoffs, which included the Finals. Had the Wings won, he would have gotten his name on the Cup. Takes 41 regular season games, or one Finals game to qualify. Hence why Downey’s name is on the ‘08 Cup, as he played enough regular season games, but he didn’t dress for the playoffs. Either way, Abby has hoisted the Cup and played in the Finals. Close enough.