Official 2018 Off Season *Rebuild* Thread

[SwedeLundin77 460]

5 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Agreed. I would prefer Daley too. They are both roughly the same age. Their contracts both end at the end of the 2019-20 season. I don't think Daley makes it to the end of his contract tho. His salary is almost half of Ericsson's, so he'll be easier to trade in the final year (both have modified NTC). I suppose they could just let E walk and re-sign TD as a free agent, but I think they re-sign E instead.

Honestly, I think at that rate, just bring in another veteran that costs around the same as Daley, if not Daley. I don’t think E is nearly as good at his outlet passes, and this team needs that. I’d say it doesn’t matter if E was a true shutdown D at this point, but he just isn’t.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

No one would talk about E if he was getting paid 2 million

[The 91 of Ryans 3,019]

1 hour ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

No one would talk about E if he was getting paid 2 million

Yes they would cuz he'd still be taking a roster spot that could be used by Hicketts or someone else who is gonna be awesome because they're not not awesome yet. 

[krsmith17 7,191]

17 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Let's assume that all of Cholowski, Hronek, Saarajarvi, and maybe one other current prospect (Lindstrom) make the roster in the next 2-3 years. IF Holland drafts a D with #6 who also cracks the lineup, that's 5 D. You'll still need preferably 1 or 2 vets to fill out the D. Kronwall, Daley, and Green will presumably be gone by then or retired. Ericsson will still be around 36 or 37 at the time so I don't think it would be a horrible idea to re-sign him to a short term, cheap deal.

I'd say Cholowski and Hronek are locks to make it, but I'd give Saarijarvi and Lindstrom a 50/50 chance, at best. I think your point was more so that we will likely have a very young defense corp in the next few years though, and that I agree with. I still think we should and probably will acquire at least one of those young defensemen via trade. And like you said, at least one through the next two drafts.

Yeah, we'll definitely need a veteran defenseman or two around to guide / mentor the kids, but I highly doubt that guy will be Ericsson. DeKeyser will still be under contract by that time, so unless he's traded before then, which I highly doubt will happen, I'd expect him to be that guy.

I've been one of the few that hasn't ragged on Ericsson or his contract over the years. Sure, he's overpaid, but it's (he's) not near as bad as some fans make it out to be. However, I think it would be a huge mistake to extend a 36 year old Ericsson. Most defensemen start to really slow down in their mid 30's. I really can't imagine Ericsson playing quality minutes beyond 36.

13 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Agreed. I would prefer Daley too. They are both roughly the same age. Their contracts both end at the end of the 2019-20 season. I don't think Daley makes it to the end of his contract tho. His salary is almost half of Ericsson's, so he'll be easier to trade in the final year (both have modified NTC). I suppose they could just let E walk and re-sign TD as a free agent, but I think they re-sign E instead.

I'd prefer neither. A "veteran" doesn't need to be ancient (to NHL standards) to provide leadership, he just needs to have been around for a few (5-7ish) years. There's no reason to re-sign a way-past-his-prime player like Daley or Ericsson, when DeKeyser or any 28-30 year old UFA defenseman can fill that role.

Daley's contract is 3/4 Ericsson's, but there's no reason we couldn't retain half in the final year, or even at this year's deadline, making both players attractive to other teams as depth defensemen. I think teams would be interested in Daley and / or Ericsson at just over $2M. If not at this year's trade deadline, definitely next year. Neither are going to garner a big return, but Daley could fetch us a 3rd or 4th round pick (2nd if we're lucky), and Ericsson could probably fetch us a 5th or 6th round pick. Both players have a NTC, which make them more difficult to move, but if the team wants to trade them, Ericsson would have to provide a 19 team no-trade list this season, and Daley, a 15 team no-trade list, 10 days prior to this season's trade deadline.

I'd be shocked if any of Kronwall, Ericsson, Daley or Green are here beyond the next two seasons. And that includes the potential of Green being extended this summer. If he is re-signed, I don't see it being for anything more than two years.

[SwedeLundin77 460]

32 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Jensen Daley is a pretty nice 3rd pair.

Yes, it would be pretty solid:

DeKeyser - Bouchard/Dobson
Cholowski - Hronek
Daley - Jensen

[krsmith17 7,191]

2 hours ago, SwedeLundin77 said:

Yes, it would be pretty solid:

DeKeyser - Bouchard/Dobson
Cholowski - Hronek
Daley - Jensen

How about...

Bean - Bouchard / Dobson

Cholowski - Hronek

DeKeyser - Jensen

?

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

4 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

I'd say Cholowski and Hronek are locks to make it, but I'd give Saarijarvi and Lindstrom a 50/50 chance, at best. I think your point was more so that we will likely have a very young defense corp in the next few years though, and that I agree with. I still think we should and probably will acquire at least one of those young defensemen via trade. And like you said, at least one through the next two drafts.

Yeah, we'll definitely need a veteran defenseman or two around to guide / mentor the kids, but I highly doubt that guy will be Ericsson. DeKeyser will still be under contract by that time, so unless he's traded before then, which I highly doubt will happen, I'd expect him to be that guy.

I've been one of the few that hasn't ragged on Ericsson or his contract over the years. Sure, he's overpaid, but it's (he's) not near as bad as some fans make it out to be. However, I think it would be a huge mistake to extend a 36 year old Ericsson. Most defensemen start to really slow down in their mid 30's. I really can't imagine Ericsson playing quality minutes beyond 36.

I'd prefer neither. A "veteran" doesn't need to be ancient (to NHL standards) to provide leadership, he just needs to have been around for a few (5-7ish) years. There's no reason to re-sign a way-past-his-prime player like Daley or Ericsson, when DeKeyser or any 28-30 year old UFA defenseman can fill that role.

Daley's contract is 3/4 Ericsson's, but there's no reason we couldn't retain half in the final year, or even at this year's deadline, making both players attractive to other teams as depth defensemen. I think teams would be interested in Daley and / or Ericsson at just over $2M. If not at this year's trade deadline, definitely next year. Neither are going to garner a big return, but Daley could fetch us a 3rd or 4th round pick (2nd if we're lucky), and Ericsson could probably fetch us a 5th or 6th round pick. Both players have a NTC, which make them more difficult to move, but if the team wants to trade them, Ericsson would have to provide a 19 team no-trade list this season, and Daley, a 15 team no-trade list, 10 days prior to this season's trade deadline.

I'd be shocked if any of Kronwall, Ericsson, Daley or Green are here beyond the next two seasons. And that includes the potential of Green being extended this summer. If he is re-signed, I don't see it being for anything more than two years.

Agree with all of this, but it's Holland we're talking about here. I know his direction has changed supposedly, but I would be surprised if he didn't just re-up E. It's his way, and there is something to be said about team chemistry. It might be better to keep a guy that fits as a depth D, than bring in a new guy, especially with a young locker room. It would be a depth move at that point, so MEH. Of course a lot of this depends on what KH does at the draft. If he doesn't draft a D at 6, that would be one less D on the roster in 2-3 years.

Agree about DD too. He would be my other veteran .

Cholowski - #6, DD - Hronek, Hicketts - Saarajarvi/Lindstrom, #7 = Ericsson

Ouellet and Jensen = traded, Kronwall = retired, Daley and Green = UFA

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

8 hours ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Yes they would cuz he'd still be taking a roster spot that could be used by Hicketts or someone else who is gonna be awesome because they're not not awesome yet. 

No they really wouldnt, unless im some how missing all these threads about DD, Daley, Kronwall, Ouellet, and Jensen taking up roster spots (im not, they dont exist)

[SwedeLundin77 460]

via Larry Brooks of the New York Post,

It wouldn’t surprise me if the Islanders go after Detroit goaltender Jimmy Howard, who has one year at just under $5.92 million remaining on his contract, rather than yield a No. 1 to get Washington backup Philipp Grubauer.

This would be amazing. They have two 1sts and two 2nds in this draft. I wonder if we could unload Ouellet or anyone else to them as well... they do currently have the lowest cap hit right now (although they need to re-sign Tavares and only have 8 forwards, 4 defensemen and 1 goalie signed right now).

3 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

How about...

Bean - Bouchard / Dobson

Cholowski - Hronek

DeKeyser - Jensen

?

Even better.

Edited June 9, 2018 by SwedeLundin77

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

1 minute ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Nyquist, Nielsen, Abdelkader, Ericsson, Kronwall, and Howard for a 2nd Round pick.

4 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

No they really wouldnt, unless im some how missing all these threads about DD, Daley, Kronwall, Ouellet, and Jensen taking up roster spots (im not, they dont exist)

I think that was sarcasm

[The 91 of Ryans 3,019]

1 hour ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

I think that was sarcasm

Aye

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

3 hours ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

Aye

Master P is what I wish LaVar Ball was like.

[krsmith17 7,191]

18 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Agree with all of this, but it's Holland we're talking about here. I know his direction has changed supposedly, but I would be surprised if he didn't just re-up E. It's his way, and there is something to be said about team chemistry. It might be better to keep a guy that fits as a depth D, than bring in a new guy, especially with a young locker room. It would be a depth move at that point, so MEH. Of course a lot of this depends on what KH does at the draft. If he doesn't draft a D at 6, that would be one less D on the roster in 2-3 years.

Agree about DD too. He would be my other veteran .

Cholowski - #6, DD - Hronek, Hicketts - Saarajarvi/Lindstrom, #7 = Ericsson

Ouellet and Jensen = traded, Kronwall = retired, Daley and Green = UFA

Meh, I just don't see Ericsson with the Wings beyond next season. I really do think Holland's mentality has changed, and he'll be much more focused on getting younger going forward. It's the way of the new NHL and he's going to have to change his ways to keep up.

You're also forgetting that we have those three picks, 30, 33 and 36 that we'll likely see at least one defenseman taken. Let's just say we take Samuelsson or Miller with one of those picks. All of sudden they're in the mix 2-3 years from now as well. We also have a 1st and two 2nds next year, and we'll likely have more than that after this year's trade deadline. I think it's very possible that we could have as many as 9 or 10 picks in the first two round of the next two drafts. That's a lot of picks. You'd have to think (hope) at least a couple turn out to be top 6 NHL defensemen.

Then you also have the possibility of trades or UFA signings from outside the organization.

I think we'll see a massive turnover over the next two seasons. I don't see any of Kronwall, Ericsson, Daley, Green, Ouellet or Jensen with this team beyond next season. If any are still here, I'd say maybe Green is in the final year of a 3 year extension, or Jensen is playing on the bottom pair for peanuts.

[Dabura 12,232]

1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

Meh, I just don't see Ericsson with the Wings beyond next season. I really do think Holland's mentality has changed, and he'll be much more focused on getting younger going forward. It's the way of the new NHL and he's going to have to change his ways to keep up.

You're also forgetting that we have those three picks, 30, 33 and 36 that we'll likely see at least one defenseman taken. Let's just say we take Samuelsson or Miller with one of those picks. All of sudden they're in the mix 2-3 years from now as well. We also have a 1st and two 2nds next year, and we'll likely have more than that after this year's trade deadline. I think it's very possible that we could have as many as 9 or 10 picks in the first two round of the next two drafts. That's a lot of picks. You'd have to think (hope) at least a couple turn out to be top 6 NHL defensemen.

Then you also have the possibility of trades or UFA signings from outside the organization.

I think we'll see a massive turnover over the next two seasons. I don't see any of Kronwall, Ericsson, Daley, Green, Ouellet or Jensen with this team beyond next season. If any are still here, I'd say maybe Green is in the final year of a 3 year extension, or Jensen is playing on the bottom pair for peanuts.

Agreed.

I think (hope) change is coming. Two years from now we'll still have a need for veteran leadership (there's always a need for veteran leadership), but I dunno why that leadership would have to be provided by any of Green, Kronwall, Daley, Jensen, Ericsson, or even DeKeyser. There are other fish in the sea.

[BinMucker94 302]

17 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

2 years from now, Larkin and Athanasiou will have 5 years in the league,  Mantha will have 4.  They will be vets and leading.  Abdelkader and Nielsen contracts need to go.  You don't want veteran followership in a rebuild.

Yea but they are forwards. The team will need a vet on defense to help the young guys breaking into the league. Someone who has been through the ups and downs and knows how to handle themselves through an 82 game season.

[krsmith17 7,191]

1 hour ago, Dabura said:

Agreed.

I think (hope) change is coming. Two years from now we'll still have a need for veteran leadership (there's always a need for veteran leadership), but I dunno why that leadership would have to be provided by any of Green, Kronwall, Daley, Jensen, Ericsson, or even DeKeyser. There are other fish in the sea.

For sure. I just don't see DeKeyser going anywhere. I can see him possibly given an "A" in the next couple years, or maybe even as early as next year, when Kronwall retires. He's under contract for the next 4 seasons, and he's a guy I can see being extended beyond that.

1 hour ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

2 years from now, Larkin and Athanasiou will have 5 years in the league,  Mantha will have 4.  They will be vets and leading.  Abdelkader and Nielsen contracts need to go.  You don't want veteran followership in a rebuild.

Yeah, I don't think a player needs to be a "vet" to be a leader. Larkin will likely be the captain in a couple years and he'll be relied upon to provide leadership on and off the ice. Mantha as well. I doubt Athanasiou will even be here in a couple years.

I don't see Abdelkader going anywhere, but I agree that we should be looking to trade Nielsen in the next year or two.

59 minutes ago, BinMucker94 said:

Yea but they are forwards. The team will need a vet on defense to help the young guys breaking into the league. Someone who has been through the ups and downs and knows how to handle themselves through an 82 game season.

I agree, but I don't see any reason that can't be DeKeyser or a youngish (26-30 year old) UFA. I don't think a "leader" needs to be 30+, and certainly not 35+.

[SwedeLundin77 460]

2 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

2 years from now, Larkin and Athanasiou will have 5 years in the league,  Mantha will have 4.  They will be vets and leading.  Abdelkader and Nielsen contracts need to go.  You don't want veteran followership in a rebuild.

There is a case to be made for having a guy or two that have won it all, that know what it takes, even guys who have just been around the league for a good long time. Daley is one guy who fills that void. It's not going to hurt the team to have 2-3 mid-30 somethings on a team that's finally (hopefully) ready to compete.

Vegas: 

Bellemare - 33
Engelland - 36
Fleury - 33

Washington:

Ovechkin - 32
Oshie - 31
Beagle - 32
Orpik - 37

 

NOTE: I'm not advocating for the team to go out and actively seek a 34-37 year old just to have that... I'm perfectly fine with our D Vet be Daley and/or DeKeyser. Same goes for the forwards.

Edited June 10, 2018 by SwedeLundin77

[Dabura 12,232]

1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

I just don't see DeKeyser going anywhere. I can see him possibly given an "A" in the next couple years, or maybe even as early as next year, when Kronwall retires. He's under contract for the next 4 seasons, and he's a guy I can see being extended beyond that.

boooooooo

DeKeyser is lazy and he sucks.

[joesuffP 1,746]

I predict Holland will sign a big FA on D to play with the homegrown guys. Safe to say these guys they drafted will be in the NHL in the next two years

Bouchard, Cholowiski, Hronek

Dekeseyer will still be signed

Add an impact FA and they’ll be in pretty good shape on D considering what they ran with the last 3 years

[The 91 of Ryans 3,019]

2 minutes ago, joesuffP said:

I predict Holland will sign a big FA on D to play with the homegrown guys. Safe to say these guys they drafted will be in the NHL in the next two years

Bouchard, Cholowiski, Hronek

Dekeseyer will still be signed

Add an impact FA and they’ll be in pretty good shape on D considering what they ran with the last 3 years

Mike Green 

3 hours ago, SwedeLundin77 said:

Washington:

Ovechkin - 32
Oshie - 31
Beagle - 32
Orpik - 37

And that man was amazing for Washington on this Stanley Cup run. 

[Datsyukian-Deke 722]

I wonder if it would be worth giving up a decent pick to shed either Helm, Abby, or Nielsen’s contract when the next expansion draft happens. 

[krsmith17 7,191]

28 minutes ago, Datsyukian-Deke said:

I wonder if it would be worth giving up a decent pick to shed either Helm, Abby, or Nielsen’s contract when the next expansion draft happens. 

If teams (GM's) learned anything from this past expansion draft, it should have been "Don't make any f***ing side deals!" Let them take their player and move on. Besides, I just don't think it's worth losing a pick to get rid of any of those players. Helm will only have a year or two left on his contract, and is a very solid bottom six forward. There's no way Holland is going to trade an alternate captain. And I believe Nielsen has enough value that you'd be able to trade him in a year or two for a decent return, nevermind giving up any assets to get rid of him.

[Datsyukian-Deke 722]

34 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

If teams (GM's) learned anything from this past expansion draft, it should have been "Don't make any f***ing side deals!" Let them take their player and move on. Besides, I just don't think it's worth losing a pick to get rid of any of those players. Helm will only have a year or two left on his contract, and is a very solid bottom six forward. There's no way Holland is going to trade an alternate captain. And I believe Nielsen has enough value that you'd be able to trade him in a year or two for a decent return, nevermind giving up any assets to get rid of him.

Pretty sure Nielsen has a no movement clause but could be wrong. And I wouldn’t mind getting rid of Abby’s 4 Mill until 2023. If it cost us something like a 3rd round pick and it opened a roster spot for one of our young guys I’d say it’s worth it. 

[krsmith17 7,191]

33 minutes ago, Datsyukian-Deke said:

Pretty sure Nielsen has a no movement clause but could be wrong. And I wouldn’t mind getting rid of Abby’s 4 Mill until 2023. If it cost us something like a 3rd round pick and it opened a roster spot for one of our young guys I’d say it’s worth it. 

Nielsen does have a NMC / NTC in which he'd have to submit a 10 team no trade list. The same would apply for the expansion draft though... If Holland really wants to trade him, he'd be able to.

I "wouldn't mind" trading Abdelkader either, but like I said, I just don't see Holland trading an alternate captain.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

1 hour ago, Datsyukian-Deke said:

Pretty sure Nielsen has a no movement clause but could be wrong. And I wouldn’t mind getting rid of Abby’s 4 Mill until 2023. If it cost us something like a 3rd round pick and it opened a roster spot for one of our young guys I’d say it’s worth it. 

All 3 of Abby, Helm, and Nielsen have some form of NTC/NMC and therefore cannot be left exposed in an expansion draft. The only way any of them don't finish out their contracts in Detroit is retirement, LTIR, or trade, none of which is likely to happen. I think we all would agree that those contracts are at best sub-par, and at worst, downright atrocious. But the only issue that I can really see with any of them is cap hit, and if this team is rebuilding, than they shouldn't be going after expensive free agents anyway. And assuming Holland learns to sign pending free agents to reasonable contracts, I don't think any of those contracts will cause serious cap issues in the future considering a lot of the roster will be on low cost ELC's. That said, I also think that each of them are good for this team and would serve as good mentors/leaders for the youth movement. Abby has good leadership skills. Helm is very good defensively. Considering that younger players often loathe playing defense, (AA and MAntha, I am talking to you) having a guy like Helm around could be a positive influence. As for Nielsen, aside from Z, he is probably the best 2 way player on this team. He can be used at even strength on a scoring or checking line, on the PP, and on the PK. Plus, he really wants to be here. There is something to be said about that. Anyway, I guess my point is that if their contracts aren't going to hurt the team going forward, than why get rid of them? I mean, if they were all making 25-50% less, wouldn't we all want them here?

13 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

Meh, I just don't see Ericsson with the Wings beyond next season. I really do think Holland's mentality has changed, and he'll be much more focused on getting younger going forward. It's the way of the new NHL and he's going to have to change his ways to keep up.

You're also forgetting that we have those three picks, 30, 33 and 36 that we'll likely see at least one defenseman taken. Let's just say we take Samuelsson or Miller with one of those picks. All of sudden they're in the mix 2-3 years from now as well. We also have a 1st and two 2nds next year, and we'll likely have more than that after this year's trade deadline. I think it's very possible that we could have as many as 9 or 10 picks in the first two round of the next two drafts. That's a lot of picks. You'd have to think (hope) at least a couple turn out to be top 6 NHL defensemen.

Then you also have the possibility of trades or UFA signings from outside the organization.

I think we'll see a massive turnover over the next two seasons. I don't see any of Kronwall, Ericsson, Daley, Green, Ouellet or Jensen with this team beyond next season. If any are still here, I'd say maybe Green is in the final year of a 3 year extension, or Jensen is playing on the bottom pair for peanuts.

LOL. You know the season is over when ur haggling over 6/7 Dmen .

Anyway, the only potential D drafted that I think will be NHL ready by the end of Daley and E's contracts (2020) is if they draft one at #6.

True, but unless you are upgrading over E (which would be fine), bringing in another depth D to replace him would just be a lateral move. Why not then just keep the guy that you know already fits, who already understands the "Red Wing Way", and is presumably a good locker room presence. No guarantee that anyone brought in from outside would give you that.

Kronwall, and Ouellet  I agree with. I think Jensen gets traded rather than get a raise. I don't think Daley gets traded until the final year of his deal (2 years away). I don't think E gets traded before his contract is up. As for Green, either he's gone this summer or he's here thru at least 2020.

Edited June 11, 2018 by Neomaxizoomdweebie