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kliq

Steve Yzerman to step down as GM for TBL. Will serve in "Advisory Role".

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^ I don't buy that we play dump and chase or our #1 defensive strategy is "clear the zone with passes to the other team" because we just "can't do anything else". If our players aren't good enough to play a more puck possession style game then okay-, what is the worst case scenario - we lose a lot of games and are near the bottom in the standings? I'd rather have our players learn to play puck possession and fail versus playing dump the puck at all opportunities and still fail.

I just don't think Blashill's strategies are translating to the NHL.

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19 hours ago, Z and D for the C said:

^ I don't buy that we play dump and chase or our #1 defensive strategy is "clear the zone with passes to the other team" because we just "can't do anything else". If our players aren't good enough to play a more puck possession style game then okay-, what is the worst case scenario - we lose a lot of games and are near the bottom in the standings? I'd rather have our players learn to play puck possession and fail versus playing dump the puck at all opportunities and still fail.

I just don't think Blashill's strategies are translating to the NHL.

While I don't mean to defend Blash here, but this teams lacks both the skill for the puck possession game, and the size (and the willingness to play physically) for the dump & chase.

 

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1 hour ago, F.Michael said:

While I don't mean to defend Blash here, but this teams lacks both the skill for the puck possession game, and the size (and the willingness to play physically) for the dump & chase.

 

Correct. You cant coach a team to play a way they lack the skill to play.

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21 hours ago, Z and D for the C said:

^ I don't buy that we play dump and chase or our #1 defensive strategy is "clear the zone with passes to the other team" because we just "can't do anything else". If our players aren't good enough to play a more puck possession style game then okay-, what is the worst case scenario - we lose a lot of games and are near the bottom in the standings? I'd rather have our players learn to play puck possession and fail versus playing dump the puck at all opportunities and still fail.

I just don't think Blashill's strategies are translating to the NHL.

So you think clearing the zone with "passes to the other team" is Blashill's coaching strategy? Not a lack of talent / skill in the lineup? That's absurd... If our players aren't good enough to play a puck possession game (most of them aren't), it would be terrible coaching to force that on them (round peg, square hole). A good coach will change his systems / strategies based on the players in his lineup. Blashill has done this. I'd be interested to see what Blash could do with some skill throughout the lineup, beyond 2 or 3 players.

1 hour ago, F.Michael said:

While I don't mean to defend Blash here, but this teams lacks both the skill for the puck possession game, and the size (and the willingness to play physically) for the dump & chase.

This.

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On 2/19/2019 at 9:28 AM, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Correct. You cant coach a team to play a way they lack the skill to play.

Well, what's the consequence? Losing games and being at the bottom of the standings?

....

If the team was having at least some success at dump and chase that's one thing. But whether our players play with a little more patience in our zone and fail to make a play up the ice or just dump it to the neutral zone, the result is the same. I'd rather have our players that will be here years from now to attempt to play in a successful strategy and lose than play in a bad one and still also lose. If we were in a playoff spot right now, then I would agree. But we're a failing team right now, so if you're saying we'd fail if we tried to play a more puck possession game, then...?

 

On 2/19/2019 at 7:49 AM, F.Michael said:

While I don't mean to defend Blash here, but this teams lacks both the skill for the puck possession game, and the size (and the willingness to play physically) for the dump & chase.

 

Agreed, so failing at puck possession and losing is better than failing at dump and chase and losing. But Blashill is having them constantly dumping the puck into the neutral zone. That will never be winning hockey.

Edited by Z and D for the C

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2 hours ago, Z and D for the C said:

Well, what's the consequence? Losing games and being at the bottom of the standings?

....

If the team was having at least some success at dump and chase that's one thing. But whether our players play with a little more patience in our zone and fail to make a play up the ice or just dump it to the neutral zone, the result is the same. I'd rather have our players that will be here years from now to attempt to play in a successful strategy and lose than play in a bad one and still also lose. If we were in a playoff spot right now, then I would agree. But we're a failing team right now, so if you're saying we'd fail if we tried to play a more puck possession game, then...?

 

 

Agreed, so failing at puck possession and losing is better than failing at dump and chase and losing. But Blashill is having them constantly dumping the puck into the neutral zone. That will never be winning hockey.

The difference is that they are learning how to play a style that suits their skill set while losing so that they can learn how to win eventually as opposed to trying to play a style that is beyond their skill set while losing and NEVER being able to win.

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3 hours ago, Z and D for the C said:

 I'd rather have our players that will be here years from now to attempt to play in a successful strategy and lose than play in a bad one and still also lose.

But what is a "successful strategy"?  What is a "bad one"?  There isn't "one" right strategy.  Several different ways to win games.   

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Constantly dumping the puck into the neutral zone to the other team isn't a successful strategy.

1 hour ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

The difference is that they are learning how to play a style that suits their skill set while losing so that they can learn how to win eventually as opposed to trying to play a style that is beyond their skill set while losing and NEVER being able to win.

Well isn't the point that we're going to try and build skill through the draft as we rebuild?

 

It doesn't look like I'm going to win this argument - I just don't like the way Blashill coaches our team and I hope he's not our coach after this season.

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The thing is, our skilled players, the one's that we're building around, our future, don't generally dump and chase as you're suggesting. The players that can successfully exit and enter the zone (Larkin, Athanasiou, Mantha, Nyquist) rarely dump the puck in, unless it's at the end of a shift and they're looking for a change. For the most part, the rest of the players can't really weave through traffic, so the right thing to do is dump and chase.

Give it another year or two, when we start to see more talented kids coming into the lineup (*Hughes*, Veleno, Zadina, Berggren, etc) and they'll be playing more of a puck possession game, regardless who the coach is.

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16 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

The thing is, our skilled players, the one's that we're building around, our future, don't generally dump and chase as you're suggesting. The players that can successfully exit and enter the zone (Larkin, Athanasiou, Mantha, Nyquist) rarely dump the puck in, unless it's at the end of a shift and they're looking for a change. For the most part, the rest of the players can't really weave through traffic, so the right thing to do is dump and chase.

Give it another year or two, when we start to see more talented kids coming into the lineup (*Hughes*, Veleno, Zadina, Berggren, etc) and they'll be playing more of a puck possession game, regardless who the coach is.

I think we are a split personality team currently

IMHO 1st and 2nd lines on most nights are puck possession whereas the 3rd and 4th are dump and chase. I agree with with KRS that will start to change over time as we replace parts in the bottom 6. I would love to see in the future 4 lines able to roll with equal distribution of ability to score and defend. 

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17 minutes ago, AtlantaHotWings said:

I think we are a split personality team currently

IMHO 1st and 2nd lines on most nights are puck possession whereas the 3rd and 4th are dump and chase. I agree with with KRS that will start to change over time as we replace parts in the bottom 6. I would love to see in the future 4 lines able to roll with equal distribution of ability to score and defend. 

I agree. However, it's pretty rare for a 4th line to have the skill to play a puck possession game. Most 4th lines dump and chase, grind down low, hack and whack to be effective. I'd like to see a top 9 that can play more of a puck possession game, but as it stands right now, we don't have the players to do it.

Blashill is far from perfect, but his systems are actually pretty effective for what he has to work with. If you want to complain about the coaching, complain about player usage. I'd say constant line shuffling too, but that doesn't even seem to be such an issue anymore. My biggest beef with Blashill has been burying players like Athanasiou and Rasmussen, but that would change as well once we get rid of all the grinders and inject more skill in the lineup.

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17 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

The thing is, our skilled players, the one's that we're building around, our future, don't generally dump and chase as you're suggesting. The players that can successfully exit and enter the zone (Larkin, Athanasiou, Mantha, Nyquist) rarely dump the puck in, unless it's at the end of a shift and they're looking for a change. For the most part, the rest of the players can't really weave through traffic, so the right thing to do is dump and chase.

Give it another year or two, when we start to see more talented kids coming into the lineup (*Hughes*, Veleno, Zadina, Berggren, etc) and they'll be playing more of a puck possession game, regardless who the coach is.

Spot on.  Helm, Glendening, Abdelkader, Ehn, and De La Rose can't play a possession game due to a low skill level.  The problem is these guys aren't all that good at the dump and chase game either.  We turn the puck over constantly when our third and 4th lines are on the ice.  

 

Stone-Larkin-Zadina

Kakko-Veleno-Athanasiou

Bertuzzi-Rasmussen-Mantha

Glendening - De La Rose - Svechnikov

 

One big right handed UFA and one good right handed draft pick away from a very formidable forward group.

 

But ditching Nielsen and Abdelkader is going to be a challenge.  10 million a year tied up in those 2 hurts so bad.

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3 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Spot on.  Helm, Glendening, Abdelkader, Ehn, and De La Rose can't play a possession game due to a low skill level.  The problem is these guys aren't all that good at the dump and chase game either.  We turn the puck over constantly when our third and 4th lines are on the ice.  

 

Stone-Larkin-Zadina

Kakko-Veleno-Athanasiou

Bertuzzi-Rasmussen-Mantha

Glendening - De La Rose - Svechnikov

 

One big right handed UFA and one good right handed draft pick away from a very formidable forward group.

 

But ditching Nielsen and Abdelkader is going to be a challenge.  10 million a year tied up in those 2 hurts so bad.

Being a Hoosier like John Mellencamp, I can tell you that it hurts so good.

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Sure Stacey, Mike treats me good and all but I'm just like bored with him, ya know? I'm still young and I wanna be free and experience new things before I'm old.

OMG Jeff ur sucha loser. Why did I ever date you? I can't believe I ever dated a loser like you leave me alone.

YOU ARE HERE

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19 minutes ago, Dabura said:

what did he mean by this

Mean he might be our next GM and the "anti-Yzerman as GM" crowd might have to suck a big one. 

Realistically though. It just means Chris Illitch doesn't have a clue about anything except for what he just said. 

Edited by kickazz

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