• Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

Manny>Ozzie(by a long shot)

Mantha is Lazy and He Sucks

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

All this goes back to doofus Holland the idiot.

 

"Well, Abdelkader is doing good at pking and forechecking, so he's doing his job better than Mantha is doing his job."

 

WTF!!!

 

Abdelkader SUCKS.  And he has for a while now.  I cannot stand watching him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, kipwinger said:

Vanek was demoted too, likely for the same reason.  So it's not like Mantha is being singled out.  And really, if you were going to single someone out, it should be Mantha.  He's supposed to be the best, or second best, player on the team and he's got one goal this year and is getting caved in at even strength.  He's lucky he doesn't get scratched.  He's been on the ice for nearly as many even strength goals against our entire team has scored all season.  So he's hardly using all of that skill to stay out of the defensive zone as you've suggested. 

Truth is, any or all of Vanek, Mantha, Nyquist, or Neilsen could reasonably be demoted.  But Neilsen is a center and Nyquist is currently outplaying Mantha and Vanek so there you go.

You're still acting as if I don't think Mantha should have been demoted... I think he should have been and I said as much when it happened... 

42 minutes ago, Buppy said:

How about the fact that your premise is just plain wrong? A few years ago Abby was an 18+ minute top line forward, now getting ~15 minutes on the 3rd/4th lines, and lost his PP spot to a 19yo who didn't have that good a camp and isn't producing. That you are still trying to argue vet bias is absurd.

Kronwall has also sunk down the depth chart over the years. Only our dearth of options has kept him on the PP. Played one game this year with both Cholowski and Hronek in the lineup, and didn't see any PP time that game. 

As usual, you're just looking to deflect and make excuses for players you like. I'm sure if you actually liked Ras you'd be all up in arms about him playing with Glendening and Abdelkader.

For my take, the whole "Mantha got demoted" thing is being over-emphasized. Things aren't working, things get changed. With the exception of Florida he's been getting good minutes, PP time, playing with Vanek and Larkin or Nielsen at center as often as Ehn. We can call it the 4th line and act like he's being mistreated, but honestly with this team there aren't too many better situations. If he's really a 60+ point player like you think, he shouldn't need to be put in a prime situation. He should be the guy that makes a situation good for other players.

You're obsession with me is getting a little creepy to be honest... I mean, countless people here say the things I'm saying now on a regular basis, but you never say jack s***, until I say it...

Abdelkader's minutes have dropped in the past three seasons? Amazing. They finally realized that he's not a top six forward... Kronwall's minutes have dropped too? He's still playing 20 minutes a night with two bummed knees...

Trying to deflect and make excuses? LOL. You always try to create false narratives. Turn things into something they're not... Mantha has been bad. I'm not trying to justify his play. I agreed that he should have been demoted, and I wouldn't have even been upset if he were scratched for a game after his abysmal performance against the Habs. But yeah, just trying to make excuses... He really is lazy and he sucks...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

You're obsession with me is getting a little creepy to be honest... I mean, countless people here say the things I'm saying now on a regular basis, but you never say jack s***, until I say it...

Abdelkader's minutes have dropped in the past three seasons? Amazing. They finally realized that he's not a top six forward... Kronwall's minutes have dropped too? He's still playing 20 minutes a night with two bummed knees...

Trying to deflect and make excuses? LOL. You always try to create false narratives. Turn things into something they're not... Mantha has been bad. I'm not trying to justify his play. I agreed that he should have been demoted, and I wouldn't have even been upset if he were scratched for a game after his abysmal performance against the Habs. But yeah, just trying to make excuses... He really is lazy and he sucks...

Yes, deflecting. Like when instead of acknowledging that the foundation of your previous complaint was factually inaccurate, you try to spin it into me having some personal vendetta. Deflecting. Literally the only reason to play the "other players have been bad too" card. Deflecting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Buppy said:

Yes, deflecting. Like when instead of acknowledging that the foundation of your previous complaint was factually inaccurate, you try to spin it into me having some personal vendetta. Deflecting. Literally the only reason to play the "other players have been bad too" card. Deflecting.

LOL you're going to accuse me of "deflecting", when you're trying to once again turn this into something it's not / put words in my mouth... I've admitted that Mantha was deserving of a demotion, but yet I'm trying to "make excuses" for him... :rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

LOL you're going to accuse me of "deflecting", when you're trying to once again turn this into something it's not / put words in my mouth... I've admitted that Mantha was deserving of a demotion, but yet I'm trying to "make excuses" for him... :rolleyes:

Funny how if we go back and forth, it's always me trolling.  But you 2 can act like imbeciles for 15 straight posts without amention of it.  Let me try something - 

 

"He's baiting you.  Stop falling for it."

 

Nahh, that's stupid.

 

Keep doing whatever you want.  It's just a message board!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

LOL you're going to accuse me of "deflecting", when you're trying to once again turn this into something it's not / put words in my mouth... I've admitted that Mantha was deserving of a demotion, but yet I'm trying to "make excuses" for him... :rolleyes:

Saying "Mantha deserves it, but so do other people" is deflecting. Textbook. But that's really beside the point. You said Abby and Kronwall (and implied veterans in general) don't get demoted. You were wrong. I corrected you. Now instead of just admitting you were wrong, you are again deflecting and trying to turn it into a personal fight. 

I didn't put any words in your mouth, I was debunking this ridiculous vet bias narrative you keep trying to push. My post had nothing to do with what you were or weren't saying about Mantha. Even the part about making excuses was about your motivations behind bringing up other players. In this thread you've criticized Rasmussen, Ehn, Abby, Kronwall, Blashill, and the organization in general, as well as a couple posts just mocking the topic. If that's not an attempt to redirect criticism away from Mantha, then what is it?

Of course, your first response to Mantha being demoted was to call Blashill dumb (not the "I think he should have been" you later tried to claim). I do suspect you're being disingenuous, but that's just my feeling. Not putting any words in your mouth.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎10‎/‎24‎/‎2018 at 6:30 PM, Buppy said:

Saying "Mantha deserves it, but so do other people" is deflecting. Textbook. But that's really beside the point. You said Abby and Kronwall (and implied veterans in general) don't get demoted. You were wrong. I corrected you. Now instead of just admitting you were wrong, you are again deflecting and trying to turn it into a personal fight. 

I didn't put any words in your mouth, I was debunking this ridiculous vet bias narrative you keep trying to push. My post had nothing to do with what you were or weren't saying about Mantha. Even the part about making excuses was about your motivations behind bringing up other players. In this thread you've criticized Rasmussen, Ehn, Abby, Kronwall, Blashill, and the organization in general, as well as a couple posts just mocking the topic. If that's not an attempt to redirect criticism away from Mantha, then what is it?

Of course, your first response to Mantha being demoted was to call Blashill dumb (not the "I think he should have been" you later tried to claim). I do suspect you're being disingenuous, but that's just my feeling. Not putting any words in your mouth.

It's not deflecting at all. It's an opinion... My opinion. Mantha deserved to be scratched after that brutal game against Montreal. Abdelkader, if he were treated similarly to the young players, should have been scratched after a couple games as well. He works his ass off, still sucks, but he tries hard so he shouldn't be scratched... Neither Abdelkader or Kronwall have ever been healthy scratched for a bad game. The only reason they've ever been "demoted", if you can even call it that, is due to natural progression, or in their case, regression. Some young guys have forced the coaching staff, but that's not the same as demotion due to a bad game or a bad shift. Sometimes I question if you even watch the games... You're literally the only person I've heard argue that there is no such thing as a veteran bias. There absolutely is, and if you don't see it, you're clearly not paying attention. I don't even take it near the level of most fans, but it is definitely a thing in Detroit, and it has been for some time. Of course you can point to examples where there wasn't a bias toward veterans, but there are many examples where there is.

Rasmussen is going to be a healthy scratch again tomorrow. Do you really think he's been the worst forward on the team thus far? I don't. I'm not one to rag on Abdelkader. In fact, I've defended him countless times over the years. However, he's been awful so far this season. In my opinion he should be scratched for a game or two. He won't be though because he wears an A, makes over $4M and is a good ol' Michigan boy...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This board talks about other posters more than hockey. This is what happens when people live vicariously through their favorite players they become way too emotional and can’t discuss things with logic. Mantha was a train wreck to start the season and has been better in the last two games but has had some bad luck. He’ll come around. It’s also completely reasonable to think 25 goal seasons may be his peak. Other than juniors, his resume suggests nothing special.

Edited by joesuffP

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

It's not deflecting at all. It's an opinion... My opinion. Mantha deserved to be scratched after that brutal game against Montreal. Abdelkader, if he were treated similarly to the young players, should have been scratched after a couple games as well. He works his ass off, still sucks, but he tries hard so he shouldn't be scratched... Neither Abdelkader or Kronwall have ever been healthy scratched for a bad game. The only reason they've ever been "demoted", if you can even call it that, is due to natural progression, or in their case, regression. Some young guys have forced the coaching staff, but that's not the same as demotion due to a bad game or a bad shift. Sometimes I question if you even watch the games... You're literally the only person I've heard argue that there is no such thing as a veteran bias. There absolutely is, and if you don't see it, you're clearly not paying attention. I don't even take it near the level of most fans, but it is definitely a thing in Detroit, and it has been for some time. Of course you can point to examples where there wasn't a bias toward veterans, but there are many examples where there is.

Rasmussen is going to be a healthy scratch again tomorrow. Do you really think he's been the worst forward on the team thus far? I don't. I'm not one to rag on Abdelkader. In fact, I've defended him countless times over the years. However, he's been awful so far this season. In my opinion he should be scratched for a game or two. He won't be though because he wears an A, makes over $4M and is a good ol' Michigan boy...

Ok, deflecting has nothing to do with opinions. Saying "Abby sucks" in a "Mantha sucks" topic, even if it's true, is still deflecting. "Whataboutism" in modern parlance. Vocabulary lesson aside...

You're confused. Mantha wasn't scratched. He was moved to a lower line. Just like has happened to Abby and Kronwall. Just like happened to Vanek. But, to you, when it happens to vets it's "natural progression". And that's part of your problem. YOU don't treat kids and vets the same way. Vet gets demoted it's natural, kid gets demoted it must be punishment for a bad game. You can't even give the team credit for promoting a kid. That's just a kid "forcing" it. 

I don't believe scratching someone, or demoting them, is necessarily a punishment. (Nor every promotion necessarily a reward.) Sometimes things just need to change. Sometimes there are things to consider beyond performance. So I don't think the Ras question matters. (Though with Ehn gone, I'd probably say yes.) While I'm sure the lack of performance is part of it, I don't think it's everything. That's another problem. Kids and vets are, and should be, sometimes treated differently. That is not bias. Different situations sometimes call for different actions. There's an expectation that kids can learn something from watching the game from a new perspective. Both Cholowski and Rasmussen said they thought it was valuable. Maybe it's not true, maybe they were lying, doesn't really matter. If the coaches believe it's true, then there is no bias in that regard. A waiver-exempt, developing prospect is typically the better choice to send to the minors than the vet at the bottom of the pro roster, assuming they're roughly equal otherwise. I'd also argue that "trying hard", but not producing because you "suck" warrants different treatment than not sucking, but not producing because you're not trying hard. (And for the record, I'm not saying Mantha isn't trying. Just that effort and ability are different things.)

This post makes it sound like you think Mantha was demoted because of the Montreal game. Though before that game you said he needed to be better. And you said afterword that he "responded" after being demoted, even though he hasn't scored, hasn't been on the ice for a goal scored, or even many decent chances. -5 ES shot attempts with him on the ice. 8 shots but again few dangerous opportunities. Do you really think he's responded? Should he be moved back to the top line? If so, what is it specifically about his play (and lack of production) that makes him deserving of promotion while Abdelkader's lack of production, despite "working his ass off", deserves a worse punishment than what you'd have given Mantha for what you called "maybe his worst game ever"?

If I'm the only one saying "vet bias" is BS, it's only because I'm the only one who is paying attention. At least paying attention to the facts instead of Ken and Mick saying "overripe" 6000 times in the last 20 years. Fact is we have a roster comprised almost entirely of the best "kids" we've produced over the last ~15 years, and we're terrible. Not terrible because we haven't yet moved on from the oldest of those "kids" to the 2nd and 3rd tiers of the newest. Not because we've brought in some UFA vets and traded away a few mediocre kids. It's because none of the kids, from Helm and Ericsson at the end of the glory days, to Ras and Zadina today, have yet been good enough to make a difference. In all those draft picks, dozens of NHL players in the "Overripe"-era, dozens more near miss prospects, and what? Maybe 3, 4, 5? questionable decisions, and that based mostly on hindsight. Nearly all the kids who have stuck in the NHL came up before they were out of options, often taking a spot from a veteran. The best have all worked their way up to the top of the lineup. Our top D-man is a 20yo rookie, and top F is a 22yo in his 4th year. Mantha, Athanasiou, and Bertuzzi have all been in the top 6 most of the year, ahead of veterans, and they're some of the youngest players on the team. 19yo Rasmussen replaced veteran Abby on the PP, and he hasn't even been good. Jensen might be older, but he's played less than 2 full years and is currently our #2 defenseman, and he's not good either. 

When exceptions to your rule vastly outnumber the examples of it, it's time to rethink your rule. Aside from "bu-bu-but everyone says so!", what "examples" do you have? Your opinion on who deserves to be scratched or waived? Your baseless assumptions regarding how and why some decisions are made? That time Kenny said "It's a man's game"? Anything?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, joesuffP said:

This board talks about other posters more than hockey. This is what happens when people live vicariously through their favorite players they become way too emotional and can’t discuss things with logic. Mantha was a train wreck to start the season and has been better in the last two games but has had some bad luck. He’ll come around. It’s also completely reasonable to think 25 goal seasons may be his peak. Other than juniors, his resume suggests nothing special.

Isnt it fun?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/25/2018 at 6:01 PM, joesuffP said:

This board talks about other posters more than hockey. This is what happens when people live vicariously through their favorite players they become way too emotional and can’t discuss things with logic. Mantha was a train wreck to start the season and has been better in the last two games but has had some bad luck. He’ll come around. It’s also completely reasonable to think 25 goal seasons may be his peak. Other than juniors, his resume suggests nothing special.

Oh it’s clear as day! I think it’s funny when they can’t face the negative comments about the golden player. 

Anyways Mantha problem is what you said, stats wise and such, just an average player. Doesn’t do anything flashy because he IS lazy. Guy doesn’t even have to put up a ton of points if he would use his size. But hell, he doesn’t even do that. It’s pure laziness.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, HadThomasVokounOnFortSt said:

Oh it’s clear as day! I think it’s funny when they can’t face the negative comments about the golden player. 

Anyways Mantha problem is what you said, stats wise and such, just an average player. Doesn’t do anything flashy because he IS lazy. Guy doesn’t even have to put up a ton of points if he would use his size. But hell, he doesn’t even do that. It’s pure laziness.

Is he lazy? Or does he just have zero balls?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

How much net front has he been playing really? He needs to go back to that if he's not already there.

2.78% netfront so far this year.

 

http:/netfrontpresence.com/nhl/detroitredwings/anthonymantha

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now