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Manny>Ozzie(by a long shot)

Mantha is Lazy and He Sucks

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9 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

At least he's 1 for 2

Hey man, I'd rather be lazy as s*** and still have enough skill to produce (even if it is at a lower than usually rate), than work my ass off every game and have no skill to produce...

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12 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Hey man, I'd rather be lazy as s*** and still have enough skill to produce (even if it is at a lower than usually rate), than work my ass off every game and have no skill to produce...

Tell that to Babcock and Blashill.  They BURY guys that don't grind.  Completely ruin them.

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17 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Hey man, I'd rather be lazy as s*** and still have enough skill to produce (even if it is at a lower than usually rate), than work my ass off every game and have no skill to produce...

Give Ehn better wingers than Mantha and his skill will shine

Edited by The 91 of Ryans

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3 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Blash is ruining Mantha. That much is clear. Kid should be gettin top line minutes with his talent

I'm not so sure. We all said the same thing about AA last year. This year he's a different player. More character, better work ethic. A little more clutch. 

I think Mantha deserves to beotch-slapped a bit Blashill a bit right now. Hopefully it make him a better player too. 

1 minute ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Isnt pride one of the 10 deadly sins?

In before the edit  :lol:

Edited by The 91 of Ryans

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1 minute ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

I'm not so sure. We all said the same thing about AA last year. This year he's a different player. More character, better work ethic. A little more clutch. 

I think Mantha deserves to be *****-slapped bu Blashill a bit right now. Hopefully it make him a better player too. 

His fancy stats are good. Stick to the plan and the goals will come.

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6 minutes ago, The 91 of Ryans said:

I'm not so sure. We all said the same thing about AA last year. This year he's a different player. More character, better work ethic. A little more clutch. 

I think Mantha deserves to beotch-slapped a bit Blashill a bit right now. Hopefully it make him a better player too. 

In before the edit  :lol:

AA has ALL the tools.  His problem actually was a useage/Blashill problem.  Johanthony's skating/stamina is his downfall.  He can't go hard for 45 seconds shift after shift like Larkin.  He doesn't need to play a 200' game, but he needs to be able to go hard his whole shift at least 140' up and down.  And he's not doing it.

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16 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

AA has ALL the tools.  His problem actually was a useage/Blashill problem.  Johanthony's skating/stamina is his downfall.  He can't go hard for 45 seconds shift after shift like Larkin.  He doesn't need to play a 200' game, but he needs to be able to go hard his whole shift at least 140' up and down.  And he's not doing it.

His skating and stamina seemed fine last year when he led the team in goals.  I think probably something else is going on. Something like 9 of his goals last year came on the PP, where he was playing net front.  He's not doing that this year.  Wouldn't explain why he's been terrible at even strength, but could explain his lack of PP production. 

 

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20 minutes ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

AA has ALL the tools.  His problem actually was a useage/Blashill problem.  Johanthony's skating/stamina is his downfall.  He can't go hard for 45 seconds shift after shift like Larkin.  He doesn't need to play a 200' game, but he needs to be able to go hard his whole shift at least 140' up and down.  And he's not doing it.

Blashill needs to put him in a position to skate. So far hes not getting that.

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Good points guys.  I'm a Mantha fan, so not trying to come down on him.  But I think we could all agree that he isn't creating right now.  Whether or not he should be is a different story.  I think that the team needs strong playmakers (Hughes, Rasmussen, Veleno) to help the finishers (Mantha, Zadina, Nyquist).  Not the other way around.  But right now, we have ZERO playmakers because Larkin and Athanasiou are bulls in a China shop and our finesse guys (Hughes, Veleno, Rasmusses) aren't even on the team!  This rebuild process is frustrating, yah?!

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2 hours ago, Jonas Mahonas said:

Good points guys.  I'm a Mantha fan, so not trying to come down on him.  But I think we could all agree that he isn't creating right now.  Whether or not he should be is a different story.  I think that the team needs strong playmakers (Hughes, Rasmussen, Veleno) to help the finishers (Mantha, Zadina, Nyquist).  Not the other way around.  But right now, we have ZERO playmakers because Larkin and Athanasiou are bulls in a China shop and our finesse guys (Hughes, Veleno, Rasmusses) aren't even on the team!  This rebuild process is frustrating, yah?!

I wouldn't exactly consider Rasmussen a "strong playmaker"... That's never been his game up to this point and I doubt that changes. Hughes isn't in the system *yet*. Larkin is a decent playmaking center, and we hope Veleno will be as well. Mantha will never drive offense, but he's a proven finisher. Larkin can drive offense, and they've had chemistry over the past couple seasons. Mantha deserved a demotion after the awful performance against Montreal, and since then he's responded. Hopefully he gets going here soon.

The thing that pisses me off though is that Abdelkader can play like s*** several games in a row and still remain in the top 6 or on the top power-play, but a young player, Athanasiou last year, Mantha this year, gets demoted immediately.

Same goes for Kronwall. He has been awful all season, but he still gets top pair minutes and is on the second power-play unit. Stop gifting the vets minutes...

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That's a dubious argument because it assumes that Abby or Kronwall are as bad at doing their jobs as Mantha is at his right now.  It's problematic because their jobs are different.  If Mantha is, as you've said many times, a finisher then he's failing abysmally at it.  Neither Abby or Kronwall are counted on for offense.  Abby is a penalty killer, forechecker, and physical presence.  Kronwall is a past his prime veteran two way guy who is no longer capable, or expected, to skate well or contribute offensively.  It would be a hard sell to say that Abby is as bad at forechecking and penalty killing as Mantha has been at scoring.  Same for Kronwall. 

Sure there are worse players on the team, but they're doing their jobs better than Mantha is at the moment.

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14 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

That's a dubious argument because it assumes that Abby or Kronwall are as bad at doing their jobs as Mantha is at his right now.  It's problematic because their jobs are different.  If Mantha is, as you've said many times, a finisher then he's failing abysmally at it.  Neither Abby or Kronwall are counted on for offense.  Abby is a penalty killer, forechecker, and physical presence.  Kronwall is a past his prime veteran two way guy who is no longer capable, or expected, to skate well or contribute offensively.  It would be a hard sell to say that Abby is as bad at forechecking and penalty killing as Mantha has been at scoring.  Same for Kronwall. 

Sure there are worse players on the team, but they're doing their jobs better than Mantha is at the moment.

You know what else I said? Blashill demoting Mantha was the right thing to do. You're acting as if I said Mantha shouldn't have been demoted, and only Abdelkader should be... That's not what I'm saying at all. But you can't argue that the vets get the same treatment as the kids when they f*** up, over and over and over again... I'm completely fine with accountability, but hold the same standard across the team.

I agree that Mantha has failed miserably at finishing, but up until his demotion (prior to the Montreal game), he was still generating offense. I do think Abdelkader has been MUCH worse than Mantha at their respective "jobs" though. But then again, I'm of the mindset that every player should provide offense, and defensive specialists, aka checkers are overrated. You know who defends better than a checker? A skilled player that spends more time in the offensive zone. I don't think I need to argue that point with you though. I'm pretty sure you share that same philosophy, and have even advocated in the past to run 4 "scoring lines".

Again, Mantha's play for a couple games there was horrible, and the demotion was just, but he's far from the only player that needs a message sent his way...

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3 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

You know what else I said? Blashill demoting Mantha was the right thing to do. You're acting as if I said Mantha shouldn't have been demoted, and only Abdelkader should be... That's not what I'm saying at all. But you can't argue that the vets get the same treatment as the kids when they f*** up, over and over and over again... I'm completely fine with accountability, but hold the same standard across the team.

I agree that Mantha has failed miserably at finishing, but up until his demotion (prior to the Montreal game), he was still generating offense. I do think Abdelkader has been MUCH worse than Mantha at their respective "jobs" though. But then again, I'm of the mindset that every player should provide offense, and defensive specialists, aka checkers are overrated. You know who defends better than a checker? A skilled player that spends more time in the offensive zone. I don't think I need to argue that point with you though. I'm pretty sure you share that same philosophy, and have even advocated in the past to run 4 "scoring lines".

Again, Mantha's play for a couple games there was horrible, and the demotion was just, but he's far from the only player that needs a message sent his way...

Vanek was demoted too, likely for the same reason.  So it's not like Mantha is being singled out.  And really, if you were going to single someone out, it should be Mantha.  He's supposed to be the best, or second best, player on the team and he's got one goal this year and is getting caved in at even strength.  He's lucky he doesn't get scratched.  He's been on the ice for nearly as many even strength goals against our entire team has scored all season.  So he's hardly using all of that skill to stay out of the defensive zone as you've suggested. 

Truth is, any or all of Vanek, Mantha, Nyquist, or Neilsen could reasonably be demoted.  But Neilsen is a center and Nyquist is currently outplaying Mantha and Vanek so there you go.

 

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Problem is that everyone is pretty bad right now. You can't demote everyone. For the kids, it becomes a teachable moment as they're still developing. As for the vets, demotion becomes more about "discipline" or motivation. I think that a young player being demoted or even scratched does more to help them than it does an older player.

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1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

You know what else I said? Blashill demoting Mantha was the right thing to do. You're acting as if I said Mantha shouldn't have been demoted, and only Abdelkader should be... That's not what I'm saying at all. But you can't argue that the vets get the same treatment as the kids when they f*** up, over and over and over again... I'm completely fine with accountability, but hold the same standard across the team.

I agree that Mantha has failed miserably at finishing, but up until his demotion (prior to the Montreal game), he was still generating offense. I do think Abdelkader has been MUCH worse than Mantha at their respective "jobs" though. But then again, I'm of the mindset that every player should provide offense, and defensive specialists, aka checkers are overrated. You know who defends better than a checker? A skilled player that spends more time in the offensive zone. I don't think I need to argue that point with you though. I'm pretty sure you share that same philosophy, and have even advocated in the past to run 4 "scoring lines".

Again, Mantha's play for a couple games there was horrible, and the demotion was just, but he's far from the only player that needs a message sent his way...

How about the fact that your premise is just plain wrong? A few years ago Abby was an 18+ minute top line forward, now getting ~15 minutes on the 3rd/4th lines, and lost his PP spot to a 19yo who didn't have that good a camp and isn't producing. That you are still trying to argue vet bias is absurd.

Kronwall has also sunk down the depth chart over the years. Only our dearth of options has kept him on the PP. Played one game this year with both Cholowski and Hronek in the lineup, and didn't see any PP time that game. 

As usual, you're just looking to deflect and make excuses for players you like. I'm sure if you actually liked Ras you'd be all up in arms about him playing with Glendening and Abdelkader.

For my take, the whole "Mantha got demoted" thing is being over-emphasized. Things aren't working, things get changed. With the exception of Florida he's been getting good minutes, PP time, playing with Vanek and Larkin or Nielsen at center as often as Ehn. We can call it the 4th line and act like he's being mistreated, but honestly with this team there aren't too many better situations. If he's really a 60+ point player like you think, he shouldn't need to be put in a prime situation. He should be the guy that makes a situation good for other players.

 

Edited by Buppy

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