2019 Trade Deadline

[kipwinger 8,524]

3 hours ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

I know he’s the head european scout and probably gets last call but I recall someone else being responsible of players in finland , that’s what I’m saying I’m sure there’s a bunch of guys looking everywhere around Europe and who report to hakan as to who they like and are high on same with wright ... which is why when I hear wright is responsible for Larkin etc... i find it hard to believe he saw every single one of those guys play same like hakan and guys outside of Sweden like hronek 

Every vet on this team has a ntc .... and it doesn’t hurt to ask you can make all these assumptions but no one knows but green

The guy you're thinking of is Nikolai Vakourov, who was the principle scout in Finland for a while.  But I'm pretty sure they reorganized how the scouts operate a few years ago.  They no longer have area scouts and instead have European and N. American scouts who overlap their coverage. But Tyler Wright is the head of all amateur scouting, just like Mark Howe is the head of all pro scouting.  I'd imagine that Wright sees every potential first round pick a least once or twice. Similarly I'd imagine Mark Howe sees every guy the Wings may be interested in  signing as a UFA and/or trading for. 

 

Edited January 21, 2019 by kipwinger

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

16 hours ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

I know he’s the head european scout and probably gets last call but I recall someone else being responsible of players in finland , that’s what I’m saying I’m sure there’s a bunch of guys looking everywhere around Europe and who report to hakan as to who they like and are high on same with wright ... which is why when I hear wright is responsible for Larkin etc... i find it hard to believe he saw every single one of those guys play same like hakan and guys outside of Sweden like hronek 

Every vet on this team has a ntc .... and it doesn’t hurt to ask you can make all these assumptions but no one knows but green

Read my lips. Green is playing out his contract in Detroit.

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

4 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Read my lips. Green is playing out his contract in Detroit.

Tony romo?

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

17 hours ago, kipwinger said:

The guy you're thinking of is Nikolai Vakourov, who was the principle scout in Finland for a while.  But I'm pretty sure they reorganized how the scouts operate a few years ago.  They no longer have area scouts and instead have European and N. American scouts who overlap their coverage. But Tyler Wright is the head of all amateur scouting, just like Mark Howe is the head of all pro scouting.  I'd imagine that Wright sees every potential first round pick a least once or twice. Similarly I'd imagine Mark Howe sees every guy the Wings may be interested in  signing as a UFA and/or trading for. 

 

Probably that’s the guy , so your telling me hakan is responsible to go to Finland to watch games ?czech,Germany,Russia etc.... that sounds like a lot of travel and responsibility for one or two guys ... you could be right I’ll have to do a further check online and see ... I got no doubt wright checks in on maybe the top 60 guys but I can’t imagine he’s paying attention to some kid in ncaa ranked 150th overall in prospect rankings ... could be wrong but i just think they rely on a lot of scouts opinions to make final calls on prospects 

anyways it’s a lot harder to find gem prospects these days but I still trust in hakan’s abilities and he’ll find us the next generation of stars hopefully sooner rather than later 

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

Just curious .... moron chiarelli calls us and says we’ll give you puljujarvi for Rasmussen would you do it?? Never liked the Rasmussen pick so I’d probably even do it with the thought that Edmonton always ruins the prospects but we’d need someone else coaching us who’s not that dickhead blashill who always treat the kids like garbage 

[krsmith17 7,191]

33 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

Just curious .... moron chiarelli calls us and says we’ll give you puljujarvi for Rasmussen would you do it?? Never liked the Rasmussen pick so I’d probably even do it with the thought that Edmonton always ruins the prospects but we’d need someone else coaching us who’s not that dickhead blashill who always treat the kids like garbage 

That's actually a good question... Tough call. I'd consider it, but probably wouldn't do it. I wasn't a fan of the Rasmussen pick either, and I still don't think he'll be anything more than a 2nd line winger / net-front weapon on the power-play. But that's probably about all Puljujarvi is going to be at this point too. Basically the only reason I'd think about making that trade is the right-handed shot, but that alone wouldn't be enough for me to pull the trigger. In saying that, I'd say Puljujarvi still has the higher ceiling, but Rasmussen may have the higher likelihood of hitting his ceiling.

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

43 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

That's actually a good question... Tough call. I'd consider it, but probably wouldn't do it. I wasn't a fan of the Rasmussen pick either, and I still don't think he'll be anything more than a 2nd line winger / net-front weapon on the power-play. But that's probably about all Puljujarvi is going to be at this point too. Basically the only reason I'd think about making that trade is the right-handed shot, but that alone wouldn't be enough for me to pull the trigger. In saying that, I'd say Puljujarvi still has the higher ceiling, but Rasmussen may have the higher likelihood of hitting his ceiling.

Ummm might have the higher likelihood if he sticks around in Edmonton I’d say , depending where puljujarvi goes if he does he can explode ... imagine him playing next to malkin and kessel? ... I know people will say he had a chance with mcdavid and did nothing but Edmonton is the worst team by far at developing kids so I don’t take too much stock to it 

zadina Larkin bertuzzi 

puljujarvi AA mantha 

that would be a pretty sweet top 6 next season ... wonder what we can give that loser to make it happen , you know he’s so desperate to save his job something will stupid will happen, they just came out and said they aren’t shopping him but habs said the same about subban and other teams said the same about players right before they got dealt ... so let’s hope man

 

knowing this team our top 6 will probably look something like this next year 

 

nyquist larkin bertuzzi 

helm nielsen mantha 

gotta say zadina is scaring me man, think his 10 goals have come in like 5 multiple two goal gams which means hes done nothing for 20 games but I do think if he had a center like Larkin and getting #1 ppl time here with better guys he could explode ... or maybe I’m just being hopeful

Edited January 21, 2019 by nyqvististhefuture

[mackel 681]

1 hour ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

Ummm might have the higher likelihood if he sticks around in Edmonton I’d say , depending where puljujarvi goes if he does he can explode ... imagine him playing next to malkin and kessel? ... I know people will say he had a chance with mcdavid and did nothing but Edmonton is the worst team by far at developing kids so I don’t take too much stock to it 

 zadina Larkin bertuzzi 

puljujarvi AA mantha 

that would be a pretty sweet top 6 next season ... wonder what we can give that loser to make it happen , you know he’s so desperate to save his job something will stupid will happen, they just came out and said they aren’t shopping him but habs said the same about subban and other teams said the same about players right before they got dealt ... so let’s hope man

 

knowing this team our top 6 will probably look something like this next year 

 

nyquist larkin bertuzzi 

 helm nielsen mantha 

gotta say zadina is scaring me man, think his 10 goals have come in like 5 multiple two goal gams which means hes done nothing for 20 games but I do think if he had a center like Larkin and getting #1 ppl time here with better guys he could explode ... or maybe I’m just being hopeful

You have reason to be concerned, he dropped because he's an incomplete player, who padded his offensive stats in the Q.  I was terrified he'd drop to us in the draft and we'd walk right into the trap... and we did.

[krsmith17 7,191]

21 minutes ago, mackel said:

You have reason to be concerned, he dropped because he's an incomplete player, who padded his offensive stats in the Q.  I was terrified he'd drop to us in the draft and we'd walk right into the trap... and we did.

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

Lmao that I guess were screwed ... quick trade him

[mackel 681]

18 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

What's so funny?  I watched him play in the Q fairly often....  he was there to score and nothing more.

2 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

Lmao that I guess were screwed ... quick trade him

I'd trade him in a heart beat in a package for a youngish top 4 D.  He'd need to be packaged with Mantha or AA to have value in such a trade.

[krsmith17 7,191]

1 hour ago, mackel said:

What's so funny?  I watched him play in the Q fairly often....  he was there to score and nothing more.

I'd trade him in a heart beat in a package for a youngish top 4 D.  He'd need to be packaged with Mantha or AA to have value in such a trade.

Oh... He must be a bust then...

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

Quick let’s call chiarelli ASAP! He just gave a 27 yr old goalie with 27 nhl games experience a three year deal 4.5 per 

LOL

[Dabura 12,207]

Zadina is a 19-year-old playing in the AHL.

Most prospects don't go straight to the AHL after the draft. This means Zadina is a year or two ahead of the standard development curve; he's learning tough lessons about the rigors of pro hockey a year or two before most prospects learn these lessons.

Despite the difficult transition from junior to pro, he's still managed to put up 20 points in 33 AHL games. If he can put up 20 points in 33 AHL games as a struggling teenage rookie, it's fair to expect good things from him in the future.

Or, y'know, we could declare he's a bust and trade him ASAP. Tough call.

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

On 1/20/2019 at 4:39 PM, kipwinger said:

Hakan is the head of European scouting, so if a player gets drafted out of a European League by the Red Wings then that player has been given the stamp of approval by Hakan.  I misspoke earlier, Hronek is definitely a Hakan pick.  Zadina, however, is not because while European he was on loan to Halifax in his draft year and would have fallen under the purview of the North American scouting team. 

 

was checking out videos on prospects and came across this ... at 4:20 he basically says after rounds 3 he relys on area guys for picks since he can’t see every player which I suspected , we even have a scout in Sweden that just searches for goalies so god only knows how many scouts in different areas teams have 

[kipwinger 8,524]

21 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

 

was checking out videos on prospects and came across this ... at 4:20 he basically says after rounds 3 he relys on area guys for picks since he can’t see every player which I suspected , we even have a scout in Sweden that just searches for goalies so god only knows how many scouts in different areas teams have 

I said as much in a previous post.  Actually I said he probably sees all our potential first rounders, sounds like I sold him a bit short if he sees everybody up to round 3. And by "area" scout I meant geographic area, not position as clearly a skater is probably not the best scout for goalies and vice versa.  I don't expect that Wright, or Hakan, for that matter sees every single player we draft.  But I'd imagine they see anyone we're interested in using a high pick on, regardless of position or league or anything else. 

Edited January 22, 2019 by kipwinger

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

20 hours ago, mackel said:

What's so funny?  I watched him play in the Q fairly often....  he was there to score and nothing more.

I'd trade him in a heart beat in a package for a youngish top 4 D.  He'd need to be packaged with Mantha or AA to have value in such a trade.

Maybe you should scout for the team then. The Wings clearly arent scouting their 1st rounders.

[mackel 681]

16 hours ago, Dabura said:

Zadina is a 19-year-old playing in the AHL.

Most prospects don't go straight to the AHL after the draft. This means Zadina is a year or two ahead of the standard development curve; he's learning tough lessons about the rigors of pro hockey a year or two before most prospects learn these lessons.

Despite the difficult transition from junior to pro, he's still managed to put up 20 points in 33 AHL games. If he can put up 20 points in 33 AHL games as a struggling teenage rookie, it's fair to expect good things from him in the future.

Or, y'know, we could declare he's a bust and trade him ASAP. Tough call.

He will be an NHLer, if you're expecting a star he'll be a bust.  So relative to the expectations (HYPE) here when he was drafted he'll be a bust.  He will not be a bust if you have him pegged as a top 6 winger who is a PP specialist ie. can't back check.  I see him as Vanek in the absolute best case scenario.

[Dabura 12,207]

5 minutes ago, mackel said:

He will be an NHLer, if you're expecting a star he'll be a bust.  So relative to the expectations (HYPE) here when he was drafted he'll be a bust.  He will not be a bust if you have him pegged as a top 6 winger who is a PP specialist ie. can't back check.  I see him as Vanek in the absolute best case scenario.

cool story i'll keep it in mind

[krsmith17 7,191]

1 hour ago, Dabura said:

cool story i'll keep it in mind

You don't actually trust multiple professional scouts and hockey analysts over mackel do you? If this guys says he's going to be a bust, he's obviously going to be a bust. Didn't you know he's seen him play in Halifax on multiple occasions? He obviously knows his s***...

[Wheelchairsuperhero 1,453]

2 hours ago, mackel said:

He will be an NHLer, if you're expecting a star he'll be a bust.  So relative to the expectations (HYPE) here when he was drafted he'll be a bust.  He will not be a bust if you have him pegged as a top 6 winger who is a PP specialist ie. can't back check.  I see him as Vanek in the absolute best case scenario.

There's a few things to knock him for right now, this isn't one of them. 

[Dabura 12,207]

16 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

You don't actually trust multiple professional scouts and hockey analysts over mackel do you? If this guys says he's going to be a bust, he's obviously going to be a bust. Didn't you know he's seen him play in Halifax on multiple occasions? He obviously knows his s***...

To be fair, I base my opinions of these kids largely on what I see of them, be it in person or through streaming services or both. So, while I don't really see eye-to-eye with mackel on Zadina, I wouldn't say I or anyone else here is any more credible than he is. I flipped out when we drafted Rasmussen and I hadn't even seen the kid play, so I really don't have much room to talk.

I do think it's way too early to cast judgment on Zadina, though. Kid is 19 years old and he's putting up points in the AHL. That's not a bad thing. It's only "bad" relative to some people's expectations. Personally, I'd figured he'd be playing in the NHL by this point, but I was clearly way off in my assessment of how NHL-ready he really was. Could it be I was wrong about him in other ways, i.e. maybe he wasn't worth taking at 6th overall? It's certainly possible. The fact that most people thought it was a great pick at the time makes me feel better about it, but drafting is voodoo, so who knows.

In conclusion, mackel eats poop.

[krsmith17 7,191]

25 minutes ago, Dabura said:

To be fair, I base my opinions of these kids largely on what I see of them, be it in person or through streaming services or both. So, while I don't really see eye-to-eye with mackel on Zadina, I wouldn't say I or anyone else here is any more credible than he is. I flipped out when we drafted Rasmussen and I hadn't even seen the kid play, so I really don't have much room to talk.

I do think it's way too early to cast judgment on Zadina, though. Kid is 19 years old and he's putting up points in the AHL. That's not a bad thing. It's only "bad" relative to some people's expectations. Personally, I'd figured he'd be playing in the NHL by this point, but I was clearly way off in my assessment of how NHL-ready he really was. Could it be I was wrong about him in other ways, i.e. maybe he wasn't worth taking at 6th overall? It's certainly possible. The fact that most people thought it was a great pick at the time makes me feel better about it, but drafting is voodoo, so who knows.

In conclusion, mackel eats poop.

My point is that no matter how much any of us watch these prospects, I'll trust the pro's over anyone online. I mean, what's the most that any of us really watch any of these players? Most of us are basing our own opinions on the few times we might see them play, the highlight videos on youtube, and scouting reports from the pros.

I was right there with you on the Rasmussen pick, and I didn't see him play a single game live. I based my opinion solely on the criteria I stated above.

It's not like mackel is saying we should have taken a player instead of Zadina, like most of us thought when we took Rasmussen. He's flat out saying that he will be a bust, which is absurd, for the reasons you've stated above; his age and what he's been able to do in his first half season of pro hockey.

I haven't watched as many Griffins games as I would like this season, but from the dozen or so that I have watched, Zadina has shown flashes of that elite skill set. I think he will be an elite, 35+ goal scorer in the NHL. Is it possible that he could fall short of that? Sure. But will he be a bust? Highly unlikely...

Most of what I've seen and read from sources I trust, have said that they're not at all worried about Zadina. Therefore, I'm not at all worried about Zadina, until he gives me reason to be.

[Dabura 12,207]

1 minute ago, krsmith17 said:

My point is that no matter how much any of us watch these prospects, I'll trust the pro's over anyone online. I mean, what's the most that any of us really watch any of these players? Most of us are basing our own opinions on the few times we might see them play, the highlight videos on youtube, and scouting reports from the pros.

I was right there with you on the Rasmussen pick, and I didn't see him play a single game live. I based my opinion solely on the criteria I stated above.

It's not like mackel is saying we should have taken a player instead of Zadina, like most of us thought when we took Rasmussen. He's flat out saying that he will be a bust, which is absurd, for the reasons you've stated above; his age and what he's been able to do in his first half season of pro hockey.

I haven't watched as many Griffins games as I would like this season, but from the dozen or so that I have watched, Zadina has shown flashes of that elite skill set. I think he will be an elite, 35+ goal scorer in the NHL. Is it possible that he could fall short of that? Sure. But will he be a bust? Highly unlikely...

Most of what I've seen and read from sources I trust, have said that they're not at all worried about Zadina. Therefore, I'm not at all worried about Zadina, until he gives me reason to be.

THERE'S A REASON WHY HE SLID ALL THE WAY FROM 3 TO 6

[The 91 of Ryans 3,015]

1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

You don't actually trust multiple professional scouts and hockey analysts over mackel do you? If this guys says he's going to be a bust, he's obviously going to be a bust. Didn't you know he's seen him play in Halifax on multiple occasions? He obviously knows his s***...

So when pro scouts take a player (say, I don't know, Rasmussen!) at 9 we're all cool with this and check our opinions and amateur evaluations at the door because pro scouts. Right?