2019 Offseason Rebuild Thread, Pt. 2 - What's the Yzerplan?

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

4 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Babcock?

I believe he was one yes

[kickazz 5,459]

2 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Holland is still under contract. If EDM wants him, they need to give us something.

His contract as GM was likely terminated once Yzerman was hired. He's a senior VP now. We don't know what requirements, if any that holds.  

It's a made-up position anyway. 

 

Edited May 4, 2019 by kickazz

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

27 minutes ago, kickazz said:

His contract as GM was likely terminated once Yzerman was hired. He's a senior VP now. We don't know what requirements, if any that holds.  

It's a made-up position anyway. 

 

A male nurse informs us about the business world, breathe it in

[krsmith17 7,191]

This is exactly why a Marner or Point offer sheet would be dumb. What about a Kapanen offer sheet though? $4.2M (2nd round pick)... I think Kapanen would be well worth that money. Would the Leafs be able to match it? At the very least, it puts Dubas in a tough situation against the cap... Especially with the rumors that Marner wants Matthews' money...

[kickazz 5,459]

2 hours ago, krsmith17 said:

This is exactly why a Marner or Point offer sheet would be dumb. What about a Kapanen offer sheet though? $4.2M (2nd round pick)... I think Kapanen would be well worth that money. Would the Leafs be able to match it? At the very least, it puts Dubas in a tough situation against the cap... Especially with the rumors that Marner wants Matthews' money...

This is why you don’t overpay for 1st round draft picks 2 years into their hockey career. 

Edited May 4, 2019 by kickazz

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

This is exactly why a Marner or Point offer sheet would be dumb. What about a Kapanen offer sheet though? $4.2M (2nd round pick)... I think Kapanen would be well worth that money. Would the Leafs be able to match it? At the very least, it puts Dubas in a tough situation against the cap... Especially with the rumors that Marner wants Matthews' money...

Johnsson has also reportedly turned down a $2 mill and $2.6 mill bridge contract. He'll get at least $3 mill, as will Kapanen.

They essentially have $9 mill in cap space headed into the summer with 4 or 5 roster spots to fill and these players to re-sign:

• Marner - $10 mill
• Johnsson - $3 mill
• Kapanen - $3 mill
• Gardiner - $5 mill
• Hainsey - $1 mill
• Ozhiganov - $1 mill

Screwed doesn't begin to describe it. They're losing good players no matter what.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

13 hours ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

A male nurse informs us about the business world, breathe it in

Actually, some nurses have MBA's.

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

22 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

Actually, some nurses have MBA's.

Not this one

[krsmith17 7,191]

This is why Yzerman should be attempting a trade for Ryan Callahan. Assuming Tampa want to trade him to free up cap space, we could get a valuable piece in return of taking on his contract for one season. We may not get a Teuvo Teraveinen level prospect, but maybe a Taylor Raddysh or an upgrade in one of our draft picks...

[ChristopherReevesLegs 7,022]

2 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

This is why Yzerman should be attempting a trade for Ryan Callahan. Assuming Tampa want to trade him to free up cap space, we could get a valuable piece in return of taking on his contract for one season. We may not get a Teuvo Teraveinen level prospect, but maybe a Taylor Raddysh or an upgrade in one of our draft picks...

Holland sends us Lucic instead

[Dabura 12,232]

6 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

This is why Yzerman should be attempting a trade for Ryan Callahan. Assuming Tampa want to trade him to free up cap space, we could get a valuable piece in return of taking on his contract for one season. We may not get a Teuvo Teraveinen level prospect, but maybe a Taylor Raddysh or an upgrade in one of our draft picks...

Given that we're in the same division and we're in the process of raiding their front office, I'm guessing BriseBois would tell Yzerman to pound sand.

[krsmith17 7,191]

9 minutes ago, Dabura said:

Given that we're in the same division and we're in the process of raiding their front office, I'm guessing BriseBois would tell Yzerman to pound sand.

I highly doubt that. The whole "interdivisional trades don't happen" thing is way overblown. Teams are going to make trades with any team, regardless which division they're in, if they believe that trade will improve their team. Yzerman and BriseBois have a history and are good friends. If they believe they can help each other out, while at the same time improve their team, why wouldn't they?

25 minutes ago, ChristopherReevesLegs said:

Holland sends us Lucic instead

Sure. 

To DET: Lucic (50% retained salary)

To EDM: Abdelkader

[Dabura 12,232]

16 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

I highly doubt that. The whole "interdivisional trades don't happen" thing is way overblown. Teams are going to make trades with any team, regardless which division they're in, if they believe that trade will improve their team. Yzerman and BriseBois have a history and are good friends. If they believe they can help each other out, while at the same time improve their team, why wouldn't they?

Teams being wary of trading within their own divisions is absolutely a thing.

Maybe it would be a factor in this case, maybe it wouldn't. If we're talking about a meh sweetener, it probably isn't a consideration at all. If we're talking about one of the Bolts' better young players (someone roughly akin to Teravainen), I would expect BriseBois to try to find a non-Atlantic trade partner.

[krsmith17 7,191]

49 minutes ago, Dabura said:

Teams being wary of trading within their own divisions is absolutely a thing.

Maybe it would be a factor in this case, maybe it wouldn't. If we're talking about a meh sweetener, it probably isn't a consideration at all. If we're talking about one of the Bolts' better young players (someone roughly akin to Teravainen), I would expect BriseBois to try to find a non-Atlantic trade partner.

Says who? Interdivisional trades happen all the time. Just last week Carolina traded Adam Fox to New York. Sure, the Rangers were the likely landing spot for Fox, but I guarantee other teams would have paid the price of a couple picks to land such a highly regarded defensive prospect.

Any GM is going to shop around and see what else is out there, or in this case, who else is out there to take on Callahan's contract. But if the few teams that would be willing to take on that contract are looking at the same sort of return, I think BriseBois might make the trade with Yzerman before some other GM's around the league.

[Dabura 12,232]

14 minutes ago, krsmith17 said:

Says who? Interdivisional trades happen all the time. Just last week Carolina traded Adam Fox to New York. Sure, the Rangers were the likely landing spot for Fox, but I guarantee other teams would have paid the price of a couple picks to land such a highly regarded defensive prospect.

Any GM is going to shop around and see what else is out there, or in this case, who else is out there to take on Callahan's contract. But if the few teams that would be willing to take on that contract are looking at the same sort of return, I think BriseBois might make the trade with Yzerman before some other GM's around the league.

I'm not saying they don't happen. I'm just saying it can be an obstacle.

Everything I understand about the Fox situation tells me he was always going to land in New York, because that's where he wants to be.

If BriseBois gets essentially identical offers from the Wings and a Pacific Division team, I think he favors shipping the sweetener piece outside of the division.

"Pound sand" was probably an overstatement on my part. There's probably potential for a deal getting done there. But I'm really not sure I'd expect the Wings to be BriseBois' prefered trade partner if he's dangling a piece that's good enough to get Yzerman interested in the first place, e.g. Raddysh, Foote.

I'm in favor of making this kind of move, btw. It'd have to net us a pretty good pick and/or prospect tho, otherwise I think I'd rather see Yzerman sit on the cap space or put it towards something else.

Edited May 5, 2019 by Dabura

[krsmith17 7,191]

1 hour ago, Dabura said:

I'm not saying they don't happen. I'm just saying it can be an obstacle.

Everything I understand about the Fox situation tells me he was always going to land in New York, because that's where he wants to be.

If BriseBois gets essentially identical offers from the Wings and a Pacific Division team, I think he favors shipping the sweetener piece outside of the division.

"Pound sand" was probably an overstatement on my part. There's probably potential for a deal getting done there. But I'm really not sure I'd expect the Wings to be BriseBois' prefered trade partner if he's dangling a piece that's good enough to get Yzerman interested in the first place, e.g. Raddysh, Foote.

I'm in favor of making this kind of move, btw. It'd have to net us a pretty good pick and/or prospect tho, otherwise I think I'd rather see Yzerman sit on the cap space or put it towards something else.

I pretty much agree with everything you're saying. Everything being equal, I'm sure most GM's would prefer to trade outside their division. I just got the impression from your previous comment that you were saying it never happens or such a trade would never happen. 

The bold is where I disagree though. If we can trade for a year of Ryan Callahan or a year of Patrick Marleau, I'd rather do that than spend our cap space on a mid level player in free agency. I'd take the asset whether it's a 3rd / mid level prospect (likely wouldn't be that low) or a 1st / high end prospect (probably wouldn't be that high)...

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

We're actually more likely to trade with TB than COL. Holland made trades with Yzerman and Nill after they left. Teams tend avoid trading impactful players within division unless its the best offer.

[Dabura 12,232]

1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

I pretty much agree with everything you're saying. Everything being equal, I'm sure most GM's would prefer to trade outside their division. I just got the impression from your previous comment that you were saying it never happens or such a trade would never happen.

Sorry for being kind of short with you. Was a bit distracted and full of tequila. I'm still full of tequila, but I'm a bit less distracted now.

Intra-division trades definitely happen and I think you're right to challenge me on the idea that BriseBois wouldn't give us a guy like Raddysh just because we're divisional rivals. And the whole Yzerman-leaving-and-then-bringing-front-office-guys-with-him thing probably doesn't create any bad blood or anything like that. So, all things considered, I do think this is realistic r0sterb8ion material.

1 hour ago, krsmith17 said:

The bold is where I disagree though. If we can trade for a year of Ryan Callahan or a year of Patrick Marleau, I'd rather do that than spend our cap space on a mid level player in free agency. I'd take the asset whether it's a 3rd / mid level prospect (likely wouldn't be that low) or a 1st / high end prospect (probably wouldn't be that high)...

I was thinking along the lines of holding out for a better predatory situation or some unforeseen development that drops a golden trade opportunity in our laps. I'm with you re: middling free agents, though I think there are some decent players worth considering, e.g. Brett Connolly.

That $5M in cap space that Callahan would be eating up could be huge at some point in the season and I'm not sure a 3rd or a mid-level prospect is worth hurting our flexibility like that. Callahan's actually a not-terrible fourth-liner at this point, so he does have sort some value as a player...but, yeah. I want a guy like Raddysh or a juicy pick. I'd be willing to throw in a piece or two if that'd help balance it out from Tampa's perspective. (Ehn? de la Rose? A 3rd of our own?)

If we get Taylor Raddysh, sign Brett Connolly to a manageable deal, and grab one of the consensus top forwards in this year's draft...that would be f***ing glorious.

Edited May 6, 2019 by Dabura

[krsmith17 7,191]

1 hour ago, Dabura said:

I was thinking along the lines of holding out for a better predatory situation or some unforeseen development that drops a golden trade opportunity in our laps. I'm with you re: middling free agents, though I think there are some decent players worth considering, e.g. Brett Connolly.

That $5M in cap space that Callahan would be eating up could be huge at some point in the season and I'm not sure a 3rd or a mid-level prospect is worth hurting our flexibility like that. Callahan's actually a not-terrible fourth-liner at this point, so he does have sort some value as a player...but, yeah. I want a guy like Raddysh or a juicy pick. I'd be willing to throw in a piece or two if that'd help balance it out from Tampa's perspective. (Ehn? de la Rose? A 3rd of our own?)

If we get Taylor Raddysh, sign Brett Connolly to a manageable deal, and grab one of the consensus top forwards in this year's draft...that would be f***ing glorious.

I guess where we differ is that I'd prefer to use the cap space to land asset(s). If there are no trade options available for that sort of move, I'd just assume sit tight until next summer. In my opinion, there are no free agents worth going after unless they're one year show me deals, but again with the plan to flip them at the deadline for asset(s)... Connolly, Skinner and Eberle are good players at a good age, but all are going to want too much money for too long...

[F.Michael 4,590]

Might be a bit off topic...

When the expansion draft takes place for Seattle, and if guys like Abdelkader/Nielsen refuse to waive their NTC - I hope Yzerman buries the both of them in GR.

[Neomaxizoomdweebie 3,083]

1 hour ago, F.Michael said:

Might be a bit off topic...

When the expansion draft takes place for Seattle, and if guys like Abdelkader/Nielsen refuse to waive their NTC - I hope Yzerman buries the both of them in GR.

He can't if they also have NO Movement Clauses.

[F.Michael 4,590]

2 minutes ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

He can't if they also have NO Movement Clauses.

Well - then they can rot in the press box...

[krsmith17 7,191]

7 hours ago, F.Michael said:

Might be a bit off topic...

When the expansion draft takes place for Seattle, and if guys like Abdelkader/Nielsen refuse to waive their NTC - I hope Yzerman buries the both of them in GR.

NTC's don't matter. Only NMC's need to be protected in the expansion draft. Nielsen has a M-NTC and would have to submit a 10 team no-trade list if asked to do so. Abdelkader's NTC will be void by the time the expansion draft takes place due to conditions not being met in his contract. Neither will have be protected in the expansion draft, and I highly doubt either will be.

6 hours ago, Neomaxizoomdweebie said:

He can't if they also have NO Movement Clauses.

Right... but they don't.

6 hours ago, F.Michael said:

Well - then they can rot in the press box...

They can both rot in the press box, be claimed in the expansion draft, traded, waived, or bought out at any time. I'd be surprised if both Nielsen and Abdelkader are Red Wings beyond the expansion draft. I believe at least one will be off the roster in the next couple years by one of the several methods stated above...

[nyqvististhefuture 1,002]

https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/92097/oliwer-kaski

 

yzerman just  got Finnish free agent dman oliwer kaski , he’ll sign after the worlds 

[krsmith17 7,191]

51 minutes ago, nyqvististhefuture said:

https://www.eliteprospects.com/player/92097/oliwer-kaski

yzerman just  got Finnish free agent dman oliwer kaski , he’ll sign after the worlds 

Very good numbers in the Finnish Elite League, finishing 6th in league scoring. Every player ahead of him were forwards / older. Kaski will be 24 to start next season. Sulak put up similar numbers (slightly lower) at the same age 2 years ago. I assume he will start in Grand Rapids. He may become a player, but more than likely just a filler. Either way, solid, no risk signing.