2024 TDL Thread

[kipwinger 8,529]

8 minutes ago, mackel said:

It makes sense BUT no GM has a leash that long.

For sure. You'd either have to be Dave Poile OR be in a situation like SY where you've got tons of goodwill coming in and you'd have to make sure your owner was on board with the plan from the jump.

Edited February 27 by kipwinger

[Scott R Lucidi 455]

You guys are all geniuses.  We have 2 NHL ready defenseman in Edvinsson and Johansson, 1 two months away in ASP, and 2 others (Wallinder and Tuomisto) one more season away.  But let's jam more rejects from other teams in front of our prospects so they can NEVER make the NHL.  I want ALL of our farm system completely frustrated and asking out of the organization like Berggren.  Great plan.

[kipwinger 8,529]

13 minutes ago, Scott R Lucidi said:

You guys are all geniuses.  We have 2 NHL ready defenseman in Edvinsson and Johansson, 1 two months away in ASP, and 2 others (Wallinder and Tuomisto) one more season away.  But let's jam more rejects from other teams in front of our prospects so they can NEVER make the NHL.  I want ALL of our farm system completely frustrated and asking out of the organization like Berggren.  Great plan.

And what about Shai Buium and Andrew Gibson?!?!!?!

Those guys are only DAYS AWAY from being NHL ready and people wanna block them with losers like Noah Hanifin and Chris Tanev?!?!? 

eVeRYonE iZ so STupUD nD iM sOoooo mAD!!!

[Scott R Lucidi 455]

3 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

And what about Shai Buium and Andrew Gibson?!?!!?!

Those guys are only DAYS AWAY from being NHL ready and people wanna block them with losers like Noah Hanifin and Chris Tanev?!?!? 

eVeRYonE iZ so STupUD nD iM sOoooo mAD!!!

 

4 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

And what about Shai Buium and Andrew Gibson?!?!!?!

Those guys are only DAYS AWAY from being NHL ready and people wanna block them with losers like Noah Hanifin and Chris Tanev?!?!? 

eVeRYonE iZ so STupUD nD iM sOoooo mAD!!!

Right, and signing MORE defenseman makes it even more difficult for those guys as well.  Putting road blocks in front of our top 40 picks to the point they ask to be traded is genius.  Like you!

[kipwinger 8,529]

Just now, Scott R Lucidi said:

 

Right, and signing MORE defenseman makes it even more difficult for those guys as well.  Putting road blocks in front of our top 40 picks to the point they ask to be traded is genius.  Like you!

I think you're on to something. Like me, Yzerman is dumb too and doesn't have the brain power to figure out that he'd need to dump contracts if he brings people in.

He's probably just going to keep adding and adding and adding players until he's got 25 defensemen on the roster. I know that's what all of us fans are suggesting that he do.

[mackel 681]

3 minutes ago, Scott R Lucidi said:

 

Right, and signing MORE defenseman makes it even more difficult for those guys as well.  Putting road blocks in front of our top 40 picks to the point they ask to be traded is genius.  Like you!

Adding Durzi or Andresson would be an upgrade now and for the medium term, it goes without saying we want to dump 2 of Holl, Matta, Petry and not resign GhostBear.

[Akakabuto 1,751]

1 hour ago, mackel said:

It makes sense BUT no GM has a leash that long.

If there ever was such a GM, Steve might be it.

 

[kipwinger 8,529]

1 minute ago, Akakabuto said:

If there ever was such a GM, Steve might be it.

 

Stan Bowman kinda did something close to this in Chicago but I don't think it was an explicit strategy. He moved on from guys like Campbell, Versteeg, Byfuglien, Ladd, Leddy, Teravainen, Saad, Panarin, throughout their dynasty. Some of them were trades but not all. But he didn't hold on to his 1sts. But he could afford to move those guys because he always had solid replacements coming along right behind them because of his drafting.

[Akakabuto 1,751]

I like it. Only if you have a(one) glaring hole on your roster should you trade a 1st round pick. But if we go by your thinking you should have a couple of extra 1st’s to fix that anyways.

GMs are out there spending top picks on players line David Savard. That should never ever be done. 

[kipwinger 8,529]

13 minutes ago, Akakabuto said:

I like it. Only if you have a(one) glaring hole on your roster should you trade a 1st round pick. But if we go by your thinking you should have a couple of extra 1st’s to fix that anyways.

GMs are out there spending top picks on players line David Savard. That should never ever be done. 

Exactly. And if you have a David Savard you should ALWAYS trade him for a 1st.

[Akakabuto 1,751]

1 minute ago, kipwinger said:

Exactly. And if you have a David Savard you should ALWAYS trade him for a 1st.

Its basically the anti-Holland methodology

[kipwinger 8,529]

3 minutes ago, Akakabuto said:

Its basically the anti-Holland methodology

Right. Another way of thinking about it is this: You have two options. You trade Tyler Bertuzzi for a 1st. Then you use that 1st, plus Kubalik and a throwaway prospect for 4 years of Debrincat. After 4 years you trade 29 year old Debrincat for a 1st (plus whatever else you get), and either make that pick or trade it in a package for another Debrincat type guy, and so on.

OR...You trade Filip Hronek for a 1st. There are no Debrincat type trades to be made, so you make the pick (plus your own 1st) and get Danielson plus ASP to replace Hronek (or someone else) down the line.

Edited February 27 by kipwinger

[mackel 681]

How about this?

To DET:  Radko Gudas

To ANA: Justin Holl, 2024 3rd & 4th Rd 

Or

To DET:  Radko Gudas

To ANA: Justin Holl, B level Defense prospect

[Dabura 12,207]

11 hours ago, Scott R Lucidi said:

You guys are all geniuses.  We have 2 NHL ready defenseman in Edvinsson and Johansson, 1 two months away in ASP, and 2 others (Wallinder and Tuomisto) one more season away.  But let's jam more rejects from other teams in front of our prospects so they can NEVER make the NHL.  I want ALL of our farm system completely frustrated and asking out of the organization like Berggren.  Great plan.

I think what people have to realize is that "NHL-ready" doesn't really mean anything to Yzermanager when it comes to icing an NHL roster. Because all "NHL-ready" really means is you appear to be ready to hold down an NHL roster spot. And, well, Yzermanager simply does not want his plans for any given season hinging largely on rookies who are merely ready to hold down a roster spot.

Maybe he's doing Berggren dirty. Fair enough.

Edvinsson? He was coming off surgery and he wasn't overly impressive in training camp. He's now more than just ready to be an NHLer - he's ready to log big minutes as an NHL workhorse defenseman.

Personally, I don't care much about Johansson. We've been talking about him for what feels like 15 years. Maybe he's a stud NHLer. But probably not. Given the choice between Johansson and, say, Radko Gudas, I take the latter. If we were in cap hell, I might say differently. But we're not. (Yet.)

ASP? Have to assume it's gonna take him a season or more just to get used to the smaller ice surface. So I think he's not close, despite the extraordinary season he's having in Sweden.

Wallinder? Yzerman said about a year ago that Wallinder still had a long way to go. He's made strides this season, but he's still at least a year away from being merely NHL-ready.

Tuomisto? Blah. Now we're just saying names for the sake of saying names.

[Scott R Lucidi 455]

3 hours ago, Dabura said:

I think what people have to realize is that "NHL-ready" doesn't really mean anything to Yzermanager when it comes to icing an NHL roster. Because all "NHL-ready" really means is you appear to be ready to hold down an NHL roster spot. And, well, Yzermanager simply does not want his plans for any given season hinging largely on rookies who are merely ready to hold down a roster spot.

Maybe he's doing Berggren dirty. Fair enough.

Edvinsson? He was coming off surgery and he wasn't overly impressive in training camp. He's now more than just ready to be an NHLer - he's ready to log big minutes as an NHL workhorse defenseman.

Personally, I don't care much about Johansson. We've been talking about him for what feels like 15 years. Maybe he's a stud NHLer. But probably not. Given the choice between Johansson and, say, Radko Gudas, I take the latter. If we were in cap hell, I might say differently. But we're not. (Yet.)

ASP? Have to assume it's gonna take him a season or more just to get used to the smaller ice surface. So I think he's not close, despite the extraordinary season he's having in Sweden.

Wallinder? Yzerman said about a year ago that Wallinder still had a long way to go. He's made strides this season, but he's still at least a year away from being merely NHL-ready.

Tuomisto? Blah. Now we're just saying names for the sake of saying names.

Even if it's just Edvinsson, why not him instead of a trade?

[stephen-gregory-yzerman 59]

1 hour ago, Scott R Lucidi said:

Even if it's just Edvinsson, why not him instead of a trade?

Ideally we trade 2 dmen Maatta/Holl for a rd upgrade and promote Edvinsson.

We sub 2 bottom pair dmen for Edvinsson and a Andersson/Durzi/Zub and this team goes from good to scary good.

[Scott R Lucidi 455]

36 minutes ago, stephen-gregory-yzerman said:

Ideally we trade 2 dmen Maatta/Holl for a rd upgrade and promote Edvinsson.

We sub 2 bottom pair dmen for Edvinsson and a Andersson/Durzi/Zub and this team goes from good to scary good.

Holl and Maata are NOT our issue.  Chiarot and Petry are.

[kipwinger 8,529]

Olli Maatta is having a ridiculously good season, just in case nobody is paying attention. He's been a defensive stud, he's skating well, making plays, and covering for Gost. I'd be really reluctant to move him until the offseason.

[Scott R Lucidi 455]

2 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Olli Maatta is having a ridiculously good season, just in case nobody is paying attention. He's been a defensive stud, he's skating well, making plays, and covering for Gost. I'd be really reluctant to move him until the offseason.

Completely agree.  Gost has looked great the last 10 games, as well.  Somebody got into his ear and told him to focus on defense.

[kipwinger 8,529]

What I'd love is to have Gudas playing where Petry is, Petry playing where Holl is (7th defenseman) and Holl on another team. Only issue with that is Gudas' contract, which isn't great for the next three years.

Just now, Scott R Lucidi said:

Completely agree.  Gost has looked great the last 10 games, as well.  Somebody got into his ear and told him to focus on defense.

Yeah, you take the good with the bad from Gost. I agree he's been better than he was early on, but he's always going to have a few goofs. That's just his game at even strength. You tolerate it for the powerplay, and I'm okay with that.

[kipwinger 8,529]

5 hours ago, Dabura said:

I think what people have to realize is that "NHL-ready" doesn't really mean anything to Yzermanager when it comes to icing an NHL roster. Because all "NHL-ready" really means is you appear to be ready to hold down an NHL roster spot. And, well, Yzermanager simply does not want his plans for any given season hinging largely on rookies who are merely ready to hold down a roster spot.

Maybe he's doing Berggren dirty. Fair enough.

Edvinsson? He was coming off surgery and he wasn't overly impressive in training camp. He's now more than just ready to be an NHLer - he's ready to log big minutes as an NHL workhorse defenseman.

Personally, I don't care much about Johansson. We've been talking about him for what feels like 15 years. Maybe he's a stud NHLer. But probably not. Given the choice between Johansson and, say, Radko Gudas, I take the latter. If we were in cap hell, I might say differently. But we're not. (Yet.)

ASP? Have to assume it's gonna take him a season or more just to get used to the smaller ice surface. So I think he's not close, despite the extraordinary season he's having in Sweden.

Wallinder? Yzerman said about a year ago that Wallinder still had a long way to go. He's made strides this season, but he's still at least a year away from being merely NHL-ready.

Tuomisto? Blah. Now we're just saying names for the sake of saying names.

Don't sleep on Johansson. He's really good. I watched him a year ago in GR, and even then came away thinking "that kid can do everything". He's also kinda mean, which I like. But for that reason I think he's likely to be part of trade packages at some point. We don't need any LHD and teams are going to want him. Very solid player though. Reminds me of a Dmitry Orlov or Nick Leddy type of guy.

[Scott R Lucidi 455]

9 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

What I'd love is to have Gudas playing where Petry is, Petry playing where Holl is (7th defenseman) and Holl on another team. Only issue with that is Gudas' contract, which isn't great for the next three years.

Yeah, you take the good with the bad from Gost. I agree he's been better than he was early on, but he's always going to have a few goofs. That's just his game at even strength. You tolerate it for the powerplay, and I'm okay with that.

5 pts, +5 in his last 5.  Against some pretty good teams too.

[kipwinger 8,529]

6 minutes ago, Scott R Lucidi said:

5 pts, +5 in his last 5.  Against some pretty good teams too.

I'm not suprprised, we're just not really getting scored on at all right now. Giving up three last night was "sloppy" relative to our recent play. When you're only giving up one or two a night its an indication that everyone is doing what they're supposed to for the most part. I could nitpick Gost's puck management a bit at even strength, but I don't think it's relevant given everything else he brings to the table. Like, last night he threw the puck away on the expiring powerplay and almost led to a breakaway against...but then he scored 10 seconds later. So what do I care ya know?

Edited February 28 by kipwinger

[stephen-gregory-yzerman 59]

43 minutes ago, Scott R Lucidi said:

Holl and Maata are NOT our issue.  Chiarot and Petry are.

Holl is the player you dump so Petry can be the 7d. Chiarot is NOT our issue.

41 minutes ago, kipwinger said:

Olli Maatta is having a ridiculously good season, just in case nobody is paying attention. He's been a defensive stud, he's skating well, making plays, and covering for Gost. I'd be really reluctant to move him until the offseason.

I agree. Maatta wouldnt be a dump like Holl tho. Maatta would be the player added in a trade package for an upgrade on d. If were trading for a dman the team would probably want a roster d coming back. Maatta would have value there with 1 year remaining at a reasonable $3m.

[kipwinger 8,529]

1 minute ago, stephen-gregory-yzerman said:

Holl is the player you dump so Petry can be the 7d. Chiarot is NOT our issue.

I agree. Maatta wouldnt be a dump like Holl tho. Maatta would be the player added in a trade package for an upgrade on d. If were trading for a dman the team would probably want a roster d coming back. Maatta would have value there with 1 year remaining at a reasonable $3m.

For sure. I think teams like Edmonton and Toronto would kill for Olli Maatta right now. But that's exactly why I like him on our third pair too. I'm open to moving him, but I think it would have to be a really big upgrade. Personally I'd just like to see us chase an upgrade to Petry on the right side of the 2nd pair and move Petry to the press box. I think Petry has been reasonably good considering his age and what he's been asked to do so far this season, and I'd be thrilled if he was the guy coming into the lineup in the playoffs in case of injury. I just don't think he's got the legs for 20 mins a night anymore. In my ideal world we'd look something like:

Walman-Seider

Chiarot-Gudas/Kesselring

Maatta-Gost

Petry