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If you want to discuss hockey, try one of the threads discussing hockey. If you want to discuss other teams and their fans, remember that this a Wings board, with a Wings bias, and the prevailing opinion about other teams is going to fall somewhere in the range of 'indifference' to 'they suck'. Deal. The right, sure. It's a free country. Those fans have the right to be classless douchebags. And we have the right to call them as such. Justification is debateable, and it seems we can't agree on that issue. So I guess we should just leave it at that. Forgive me if I rant a bit here. I don't have a problem with 'bandwagon' fans the sense of fans who only take interest when the team is winning. Every organization in sports has those. I don't think you have to be a die-hard attending every game no matter how bad the team is to be a good fan. People have limited time and income, I don't expect people to spend what they have on a poor product. For me, it's the attitude of some bandwagoners that gets to me. The attitude that brings them out in droves to Wings boards demanding respect. We didn't even play you in the playoffs. We were nothing more than an also-ran last season. Why are you here looking for validation? Why does everyone come to us to wave their victory banners, mock us for our failures? Does it really mean so much around the league for teams to be considered better than us? I guess we should take it as a compliment, but I just find it annoying. Let me ask you this; in 2008, how many Wings fans went out policing the Hawks boards for any percieved slights to our status? Also, the sense of entitlement for some of these fans even though they haven't proven a willingness to pay their dues. I don't mean supporting a losing team. In many ways it's much easier to support a team with no expectations. You can't be disappointed. I mean supporting a good team that loses when you expect them to win. You talk about how much success the Wings have had in recent memory, but that is a double-edged sword. With that success comes the expectation of more success. Since 1995, our seasons have had only two possible conclusions: Cup or Failure. We might have the most successful team over that span, but at the same time we have also endured the most failure. We are invested in our team to an extent I don't think you really understand. Probably half the leauge would be ecstatic just to make the playoffs this year. For us the prospect of missing the playoffs borders on tragic. A first round loss here is an embarassment. Last year in Phoenix it was an epic achievement, even though they had home ice and could easily have been considered the favorite. When Pittsburgh and Chicago lost to us, fans took it as a moral victory that they made it so far. When we lost to the Ducks and Pens in the same circumstances, they were profoundly disappointing failures. Even when we won the Cup most of the talk around the league centered around the rise of the Penguins. You all come here playing the victim because we don't idolize every Cup winner, demanding respect that you haven't earned. Maybe it's just the 'instant success' factor; you haven't had a chance yet to take your lumps, but you are willing to. Pens fans probably would have said the same thing, but their bandwagon seemed to empty pretty quickly. Come back when the Hawks are eliminated. Make excuses, whine about officiating and injuries and bad luck and all the other things you do when you're frustrated because your team let you down. Listen to fans around the league berate you for those excuses, tell you your reign is over. Fans around the league hate the Wings and us fans. Every team has the Wings games circled on their schedule almost like a rival or defending champ. League marketing is even sick of us, and always looking for the next big thing to replace us as headliners. That's what we Wings fans have been doing for over a decade. You don't deserve the thrill of victory if defeat isn't agony. You haven't shown that yet. Even now you talk about the Hawks struggles like it doesn't bother you, like you expect nothing, like you could walk away from a second round loss with your head held high. Success is wonderful, and much appreciated, but also a reminder of the greater success we've failed to achieve. Your success still leaves you a lot closer to Nashville than it does to us, and you haven't yet demonstrated any emotional investment in your team. Yet you have the gall to step into enemey territory demanding equality in our justifiably biased discussions. Un-*******-believable.

Oh look, mommy. It's a stats junkie. Do you even bother to watch the games or do you really have that hard of a time understanding hockey?

are you kidding?? He made mindfly's day. Without Raf's screw up the Wings likely would've won and mindfly would've had to dig deep to find something to ***** about. Raf made it easy for him.

Did Lidstrom send you a txt message with that? Or maybe you follow a player's Swedish-only Twitter account? Because I'd really love to know how you seem to know exactly what the Wings are thinking during a game.

Hudler is better defensively than Rafalski.

Let's blame something :clap: :clap: Let's blame something :clap: :clap:

Trade Rafalski for a nice winter coat. Guy is ******* worthless defensively.

Osgood actually plays well and the team just gives up the game. What a ******* crock. Rafalski, you should be ******* ashamed of yourself for that performance tonight.

Chicago fans siting behind me Friday kept booing Osgood and yelling that he sucked... after the first period I had to break it to them that he wasn't in goal

that a boy cheli, get em real butthurt

The NHL can't land a decent TV contract, so on the one day when they ARE able to grab a piece of the spotlight....you're going to fault them for putting their two biggest draws on the ice? Keep boycotting if you like, but don't complain when NHL games are continually having to be watched on some obscure channel because they are not able to prove that they can pull ratings to deserve to be on anything better.

Yes, 10/20 career, absolutely no shot. I'll take the 50/50 any day over the s*** that just happened.

Rafalski needed to drop back the moment the puck came off his stick. He didn't head back until the Stars had possession, which is what hung Kronwall, and ultimately Ozzie, out to dry.

With these reactions you would think Detroit was in last place haha. I guess some of you dont feel like teams should EVER have bad stretches, they should be dominant all year long, or they arent that good. And I thought Hawk fans overreacted haha

And i don't get where all the love for osgood in this games comes from, he made about 2 solid saves the rest were must-saves for any nhl goalie, he faced what 25shots in regulation and still let in 3 goals, not very good stats.

How many games has Rafalski played? How many times has he shot the frickin' puck into the feet or the blade of an opponent. WHEN is he supposed to learn not to do that? What's it gonna take? Right now he's the most disappointing player on the team and I've felt the same way in the past. He's good. But invariably he gives the puck right back, gift-wrapped and tied in a ribbon to the opponents. He absolutely drives me frickin' berserk. I wish Babcock would sit him for a week. Yeah I know it's not going to happen but oh, how I wish it could. Meanwhile, whoever said Ozzie's going to have to get a shutout to win his 400th was right on. A three-on-one at the end of the game. Way to go boyz. Way to support. :nonono: :puke:

I think it's about time Rafalski wears his USA jersey under his Wings jersey. As of now, i'd rather have Kindl in there.

This month cannot end soon enough. 4-4-2

To be fair on Rafalski, he's the one that drove to the. Franzen should have stayed back but he got greedy when the puck was loose.

Way to blow it for Osgood. WTF is up with this team?

You're on a RED WINGS MESSAGE BOARD. We're going to talk s*** about other teams and other fans. If you can't handle RED WINGS FANS talking on a RED WINGS MESSAGE BOARD, maybe you need to find a new sandbox. We're not going to kowtow to the minority of posters here that don't root for the Wings. That's not how it works. If you want people to kiss your team's ass, go to a Hawks board. It's like going to a NASCAR race and wondering why everyone's driving in a circle.

Their "goal song" alone puts them in a category of idiocy that ranks highest in the NHL, to me. I picture them skipping around the arena like a bunch of goofy kids. Der-de-der-der-de-der.... The song is about some skank who likes shoes, for heaven's sake. Anyway, simple solution to that issue. Wings could f'ing show up and not let them ever play that moronic anthem again. I can turn the sound off - and I do! As for the way the treated Chelios, it was the act of a fan base who haven't watched hockey for many years, and don't know how to behave. It was classless and stupid to boo a guy who still bleeds for that city, even if he did have more great years in Detroit than in his native Chicago. Glad I don't live there. Hope they lose miserably in the playoffs.

Maybe the Lions will be playing