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ShanahanMan

To trade, or not to trade...

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Prorated over the season it means a little more, no?

It's around $7 million prorated, but saying they're $7 million under the cap isn't true.

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The reason I am harsh on Holland:

He said the team needed to get tougher after last seasons playoffs. He recognized the flaw in the team. We then preceed to lose our two toughest players, one to retirement and one to free agency. We filled that gap by signing Greg Johnson and Markov.

We are softer than last year.

How has this guy done anything to make this team stronger for the playoffs?

By signing Hasek? So he gambled the season on fragile Hasek?

I want you all to tell me HOW this team is better prepared for the playoffs this year than the last few.

If you can show me I will lay off Holland, but if you look at it objectively, this team has less grit and is overall a worse team than last years playoff team.

I guess you are all thinking Hasek will pull this one out?

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the asking price for these star players is just way too high and i don't think we're gonna do it. Personally, I believe we are gonna do a trade but its not gonna be a top league winger. I think we're gonna give off maybe 1 prospect, Williams, and/or a draft pick and get a SOLID winger. Lapointe? Nolan? I don't think they would be bad at all.....and even though i really don't like Bertuzzi, I think he'd be a good fit on the team but with all the injuries its just waaaaaay too risky.

Edited by shanahanman

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Exactly. We sat and wait while Kenny "bided his time", as people like to say, and signed none of that playoff grit we were supposed to get in the offseason. The upcoming deadline is now D-day for him, time to show that waitng it out and signing nobody was the right move. Now we're hearing from Holland about how trade prices are too high and whatnot...well buddy then why didnt you f'n SIGN some guys in the offseason then! Did you not expect this?

He signed Danny Markov ($2.5M)

As of yesterday he has $1.8M cap room (that's before you subtract the salaries of Langfeld, Norton, Ellis, Liv Howard, and Hussey during their times with the club. You can add back about 1.2M for the Fischer salary offset. He's also in for up to $1.4M in bonuses for Chelios and Hasek. This is Money he couldn't use at the beginning of the year, but can now roll into next season if necessary. He couldn't have signed Markov and had anything left for Guerin ($2M + $400K bonus), or Nolan ($1.225M). Even if he squeezed every penny out of the cap and he signed Guerin or Nolan, he would have had NO CAP ROOM for the balance of the year.

Holland Played It Right.

Edited by chooch

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the asking price for these star players is just way too high and i don't think we're gonna do it. Personally, I believe we are gonna do a trade but its not gonna be a top league winger. I think we're gonna give off maybe 1 prospect, Williams, and/or a draft pick and get a SOLID winger. Lapointe? Nolan? I don't think they would be bad at all.

This team is bult to beat any team in a one game series.

In best out of 7,we always get outmuscled and the coaching staff cannot adapt to the oppositions' strategies.

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According to TSN, St. Louis wants a first round pick and a prospect (Flip... Kindl...) for either Guerin or Tkachuk.

At prices like that, we either need a lot of GMs to laugh in his face until the price drops, pick up some of the less valuable rentals, or stand pat. At this point, the way the prices are out there, I wouldn't feel bad if a move wasn't made.

Absolutely

My new shopping list (partial)

Gratton (Chris) (not sure ... he's kinda up and down)

Thornton (Scott)

Sturm

Roberts

LaPerriere

Nolan

Scatchard

Laraque

Ricci (injured I think)

Saprykin

Torres

Drake

Pettinger

Sutherby

Zubrus

etc.

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He signed Danny Markov ($2.5M)

As of yesterday he has $1.8M cap room (that's before you subtract the salaries of Langfeld, Norton, Ellis, Liv Howard, and Hussey during their times with the club. You can add back about 1.2M for the Fischer salary offset. He's also in for up to $1.4M in bonuses for Chelios and Hasek. This is Money he couldn't use at the beginning of the year, but can now roll into next season if necessary. He couldn't have signed Markov and had anything left for Guerin ($2M + $400K bonus), or Nolan ($1.225M). Even if he squeezed every penny out of the cap and he signed Guerin or Nolan, he would have had NO CAP ROOM for the balance of the year.

Holland Played It Right.

Markov hardly helps the need for grit at forward. I dont know the specifics of the cap money but what i do know is Holland was offering 4 million, possibly 4.5, to Shanahan. Money was there to make additions upfront. All i remember hearing was that Kenny would wait till the deadline to address these needs...well over the next 10 days is that time. If he's not willing to part with anything via trade then what, he's biding his time till next offseason?

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Markov hardly helps the need for grit at forward. I dont know the specifics of the cap money but what i do know is Holland was offering 4 million, possibly 4.5, to Shanahan. Money was there to make additions upfront. All i remember hearing was that Kenny would wait till the deadline to address these needs...well over the next 10 days is that time. If he's not willing to part with anything via trade then what, he's biding his time till next offseason?

He could have optioned Lebda and Filpulla; and he could have risked Hudler and Kopecky to waivers. He could also have skipped the Norton signing. By doing these things he might have squeezed out Guerin type money and still had a little bit of safety room.

Markov was signed two months after Shanny went away. It's the same money. Look at it this way. Would you rather have Jason Wooley or a gritty forward. Those are your choices.

Edited by chooch

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He could have optioned Lebda and Filpulla; and he could have risked Hudler and Kopecky to waivers. He could also have skipped the Norton signing. By doing these things he might have squeezed out Guerin type money and still had a little bit of safety room.

Markov was signed two months after Shanny went away. It's the same money. Look at it this way. Would you rather have Jason Wooley or a gritty forward. Those are your choices.

I'll take the gritty forward. Ok ....when do i get it?!

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If he's not willing to part with anything via trade then what, he's biding his time till next offseason?

Well, Lou, how do you feel about dealing Flip or Kindl? I know you don't give a s*** about Rex, but what about those two?

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Well, Lou, how do you feel about dealing Flip or Kindl? I know you don't give a s*** about Rex, but what about those two?

I'd deal Kindl as well as Hudler....but wouldnt Flip unless it was for something real good and not just a rental.

My point really is that we all know this team needs toughness and grit up front...Holland even says so. Moves could have been made to address it last offseason, but werent, with the talk being it would be addressed at the deadline. If its not done now, then the whole plan was a farce.

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I'll take the gritty forward. Ok ....when do i get it?!

Look at my shopping list above at post #56. I wouldn't have come up with it unless I thought each ane every one of those players was available at a price which makes both teams happy

If something like that doesn't happen we will know that Kenny was shining us on (he still has to sell tickets). But I'm OK with that too, because I really don't want the Wings to expend ANY resources on ANYTHING. I wouldn't cry if there was a President's Day Massacre moving out all of our UFAs for picks and prospects.

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The thing is alot of this pent up frustration people like myself and Barnes have still goes back to the way Holland spent the whole offseason dicking around with Shanahan and not signing someone like Guerin. The explanation then for not signing any gritty forwards was that Holland didnt think the time was right and would leave all that cap space for the trade deadline. Now, if you go by Holland's history and what we read, the Wings arent willing to put up anything of significance to acquire anybody. So if we just go and do something stupid and trade for a guy no one else wants like Sergei Fedorov (thats just my own personal rumor people, dont blow your brains out yet lol) then not making any signings wasnt smart at all. Why was that cap space not used to address needs at forward last offseason? Know what im saying? I know theres still time and everything, so im not crucifying Holland yet. I just dont really feel too good about the type of players we're gonna end up getting..

Nail, meet head. All the appologists sang Kenny's praises for being patient during the off season saying that we would have our pick of girtty scoring wingers at the deadline. Now the pool of those types is shrinking and Holland has a history of overvaluing his own players. Those things do not bode well for an impact trade which this team likely needs to get out of the 1st round. If Holland pulls off such a deal or the Wings make the conference finals I will gladly come on here and say I was wrong. But right now I have serious doubts.

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i'm not sure how people can think this team is built for a long playoff run. we got our asses handed to us last year beacuse we are too soft and we're even softer this year. holland was supposed to get this team ready for the playoffs last off season and didn't. he said, it's okay, we have room to make a move at the deadline, and i'm guessing nothing significant is coming then. this team, as is, won't get far, mark my words (if i'm wrong, i'll be the first to admit it :cool: but i don't think i am) hence the frustration in our gm. same story, different year.

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Yeah, maybe we should, wouldn't make any difference, we'll still have the same SOFT, euro-intensive, team who's offense can go desert dry at the drop of a hat with players that refuse to stand up for one another when the team's stars get cheap shotted.

Why all the Holland love here? He sat on his hands all through the off-season, then claimed he did it to save room to acquire a big gun later in the season. Then as time went by he said he was waiting till the deadline to pull any triggers, and now he is laying the foundation for doing nothing at all. I can understand if he is getting outbid for the offensive stars, but there is no excuse why he can't acquire a Laraque/Drake/Mayers type of grinder.

Have we all forgotten the Philly debacle so soon? or how about the times this season we have been destroyed by san jose, nashville, anaheim, and yes, last place philly.

folks, i do not care what their record is, and i do not care if you say i am not a true fan, but any fan not wearing blinders can see that this team is built about as wrong as you can be for a playoff run, with the exception of Hasek.

i am a die hard wings fan, and if this is the team we go into the playoffs with, we will be destroyed round 1.

Christ this is getting old. We have the 3rd best record in the league and it has been what 5 years since we won the cup. Yea, Holland has no idea what he is doing.

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i'm not sure how people can think this team is built for a long playoff run. we got our asses handed to us last year beacuse we are too soft and we're even softer this year. holland was supposed to get this team ready for the playoffs last off season and didn't. he said, it's okay, we have room to make a move at the deadline, and i'm guessing nothing significant is coming then. this team, as is, won't get far, mark my words (if i'm wrong, i'll be the first to admit it :cool: but i don't think i am) hence the frustration in our gm. same story, different year.

How the f*** can you say we are softer this year than last?

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Christ this is getting old. We have the 3rd best record in the league and it has been what 5 years since we won the cup. Yea, Holland has no idea what he is doing.

1st round

2nd round

1st round

I'd say everyone has the right to question what he's doing.

I still don't see how we're softer than last year.

Well theyre weaker in the toughness department, but i know Shanahan played soft 98% of the time so all in all i'd say its pretty much even.

(which is a bad thing)

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1st round

2nd round

1st round

I'd say everyone has the right to question what he's doing.

Well theyre weaker in the toughness department, but i know Shanahan played soft 98% of the time so all in all i'd say its pretty much even.

(which is a bad thing)

yatzee!

and if we exit in the first round again paitents might run thin

Edited by theman19

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How the f*** can you say we are softer this year than last?

I think our softness is about equal to last year's. VERY SOFT.

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I want you all to tell me HOW this team is better prepared for the playoffs this year than the last few.

Ok, and I want you to tell me how Holland could've changed this team into the Calgary Flames in one off-season. Thanks.

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Ok, and I want you to tell me how Holland could've changed this team into the Calgary Flames in one off-season. Thanks.

And I hate using this as a defense because I argued against it all off season, but which team has had more success in the last 5 years?

It's an ugly defense since there are holes in the argument, but as far as consistency goes, Detroit is still the model.

Edited by Heaton

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It's always cup or bust for the Wings nowadays.

I think we operate too close to the cap max just to be pleased to make the playoffs.

Besides,I bet all the players expect and hope to win the cup every season (especially when they play for "bigger" teams like the Wings).

Why should we fans be any different?

Whether or not "we" are pleased based on the amount so close to the cap is ludicrous. Illitch spends the money; IIlitch gets a return.

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i'm not sure how people can think this team is built for a long playoff run. we got our asses handed to us last year beacuse we are too soft and we're even softer this year. holland was supposed to get this team ready for the playoffs last off season and didn't. he said, it's okay, we have room to make a move at the deadline, and i'm guessing nothing significant is coming then. this team, as is, won't get far, mark my words (if i'm wrong, i'll be the first to admit it :cool: but i don't think i am) hence the frustration in our gm. same story, different year.

Hum ho, well, let's look at the changes. A completely different style of play, a better starting 6 on D, a better starting goalie, and pretty much everyone good besides Shanahan re-signed. The result? Hum ho, a mere 3rd in the league. Quit your bitching.

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