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ShanahanMan

To trade, or not to trade...

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I'm about ready to jump on the "Holland Bashing" raft right now. If he really thinks this team is ok the way it is, he is probably one of the top 5 dumbest GM's alive. You know why Lang is playing so bad right now? Look who his wingers are. Williams sucks more than humanly imaginable. He does nothing on the ice except float. And Dan Cleary... He'll never live up to the expectations of being drafted #13 overall way back in 1997. I'm sorry, but he's not a second line player. He's a good defensive forward, and that's fine. But he needs to stop being depended on to score. Holland needs to get up off his fat ass and get at least ONE scoring winger. If he can't do that, then this team is done. Don't start the crap of "Well the Wings went 17-1-3 after they got Cory Cross" either. Pretell what was the Wings record in the playoffs? Oh yeah, a resounding 2-4. So apparently they weren't in shape for the playoffs. And their not now. So if he (Holland) doesn't get ANYTHING at the deadline, then don't expect the Wings to be playing past the middle of April.

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Has everyone forgotten what this team looked like going into Traverse City this past summer? For those who have, which appears to be most, I'll sum it up. The Red Wings looked a lot like this:

???

We had absolutely NO IDEA we'd be in this position right now, fighting for a spot at the top of the conference, possibly the league. There wasn't a person on this board, in the organization, or in the media, who expected the Wings to be a serious Cup contender at this point in the season. It wasn't a rebuilding year, more of a re-evaluating year. Take a step back, see what these players were capable of and go from there.

Remember all the saying we'd just be happy if we made the playoffs and that would be nice because of all the turnover and let's not get our expectations too high this year? So much for that, I guess.

That's why Holland didn't bother going after these guys in the offseason. Why mess with something that you already don't have a clue how it'll turn out, and tie up future-wasting money in the process? The answer to Lou's question, Did you not expect this?, is a huge NO!, of course not, not a single one of us expected the Wings to be where they are now. Hindsight is always 20/20.

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nashville sold the farm for forsberg because they are a terminally-ill patient that can't worry about tomorrow. the team might not even exist in a couple of years. how pathetic is it that your team has to sell off the future on the hopes of winning YOUR FIRST PLAYOFF SERIES EVER so that MAYBE the fickle fans will start attending games so MAYBE your team won't fold?

beyond pathetic!

and we have people here griping because holland didn't give the equivalent of 3 first-round draft picks for an INJURED forsberg? what the hell are you people smoking?!

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if we are going to get someone it doesnt need to be some big hot shot,i'd prefer that we didnt. what we need is someone who can just contribut enough to help out the team ( i'd say someone like Anson Carter )

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Has everyone forgotten what this team looked like going into Traverse City this past summer? For those who have, which appears to be most, I'll sum it up. The Red Wings looked a lot like this:

???

We had absolutely NO IDEA we'd be in this position right now, fighting for a spot at the top of the conference, possibly the league. There wasn't a person on this board, in the organization, or in the media, who expected the Wings to be a serious Cup contender at this point in the season. It wasn't a rebuilding year, more of a re-evaluating year. Take a step back, see what these players were capable of and go from there.

Remember all the saying we'd just be happy if we made the playoffs and that would be nice because of all the turnover and let's not get our expectations too high this year? So much for that, I guess.

That's why Holland didn't bother going after these guys in the offseason. Why mess with something that you already don't have a clue how it'll turn out, and tie up future-wasting money in the process? The answer to Lou's question, Did you not expect this?, is a huge NO!, of course not, not a single one of us expected the Wings to be where they are now. Hindsight is always 20/20.

The thing is alot of this pent up frustration people like myself and Barnes have still goes back to the way Holland spent the whole offseason dicking around with Shanahan and not signing someone like Guerin. The explanation then for not signing any gritty forwards was that Holland didnt think the time was right and would leave all that cap space for the trade deadline. Now, if you go by Holland's history and what we read, the Wings arent willing to put up anything of significance to acquire anybody. So if we just go and do something stupid and trade for a guy no one else wants like Sergei Fedorov (thats just my own personal rumor people, dont blow your brains out yet lol) then not making any signings wasnt smart at all. Why was that cap space not used to address needs at forward last offseason? Know what im saying? I know theres still time and everything, so im not crucifying Holland yet. I just dont really feel too good about the type of players we're gonna end up getting..

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Do people not understand that businessmen use the media as a tool?? If hes saying "I dont need to make a trade" that moves him out of the light of desperation.

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I guess the jist of what im saying is if he's not willing to give up anything good in trade then what was the purpose of saving all the cap space.

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Did miss something?

Did they move the trade deadline up to yesterday?

Here's a thought. Next time someone feels the urge to go on a rant about how much Holland sucks and how he's not going to trade for any good player and we're going to lose in the first round of the playoffs, write it down a piece of paper. Make a list.

Then when the trade deadline actually passes, if nothing happens, you can grab your handy little list and ***** to your heart's content.

What the hell do you want Holland to say? "We desperately need to make a move! If we don't get a gritty winger, we're screwed!" It wouldn't exactly help his bargaining position.

At least someone understands business tactics.

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Do people not understand that businessmen use the media as a tool?? If hes saying "I dont need to make a trade" that moves him out of the light of desperation.

I dont see much of a point in doing that considering the type of players the Wings need to acquire are coveted by multiple teams. Its not like a team such as St Louis would lower their asking price cause "Holland doesnt think he needs to make a trade"....they'll just trade their guys to one of the other probably 5 or 6 teams interested.

I think that tactic is only useful for the borderline sellers to increase the trade offers they recieve. I.E. if the Blues came out and said.."We arent really that far out of the playoff hunt, Im not sure we need to trade Guerin or Tkachuk". They would then probably get better trade offers as a result...thats how the tactic is useful.

Edited by Lou_Siffer

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I guess the jist of what im saying is if he's not willing to give up anything good in trade then what was the purpose of saving all the cap space.

Right. I think there will be a trade made. He may be giving some people a heart attack, by saying "we'd like to, but we don't need to." I'm convinced he will, otherwise if we don't and go out early again, he will be blamed for being inactive when he could've made a move or two, and it will all blow up in his face. I don't know if he'd be willing to take that chance and perhaps even lose his job. Come 3:30pm on the 27th, if there are no moves made to benefit the team at all, this topic will be the most active.

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I dont see much of a point in doing that considering the type of players the Wings need to acquire are coveted by multiple teams. Its not like a team such as St Louis would lower their asking price cause "Holland doesnt think he needs to make a trade"....they'll just trade their guys to one of the other probably 5 or 6 teams interested.

I think that tactic is only useful for the borderline sellers to increase the trade offers they recieve. I.E. if the Blues came out and said.."We arent really that far out of the playoff hunt, Im not sure we need to trade Guerin or Tkachuk". They would then probably get better trade offers as a result...thats how the tactic is useful.

even if it didn't affect his positioning in the trade, it would still be pretty stupid for a GM to come out in the press and say they really needed a player one week before the deadline.

Holland should be judged by his actions (or inaction). I could care less what he says to the media.

If the trade deadline passes and he doesn't make a move, then he seems to be content for this team to do well in the regular season and fail in the playoffs, and I will be extremely frustrated. But I'll at least give him until the deadline.

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I dont see much of a point in doing that considering the type of players the Wings need to acquire are coveted by multiple teams. Its not like a team such as St Louis would lower their asking price cause "Holland doesnt think he needs to make a trade"....they'll just trade their guys to one of the other probably 5 or 6 teams interested.

I think that tactic is only useful for the borderline sellers to increase the trade offers they recieve. I.E. if the Blues came out and said.."We arent really that far out of the playoff hunt, Im not sure we need to trade Guerin or Tkachuk". They would then probably get better trade offers as a result...thats how the tactic is useful.

Burke said the same thing. Nonis said the same thing. Its a tactic they use - and most of them - in order to set the bar a little lower as a market standard. Im sure more GMs have said the same thing. "we arent going to make a trade for the sake of making a trade." The only guy that seems to have lost his head, and probably because the media was calling for his head last year when he couldnt get his stacked team very far, is Muckler who is supposedly offering Eaves for Roberts.

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Has everyone forgotten what this team looked like going into Traverse City this past summer? For those who have, which appears to be most, I'll sum it up. The Red Wings looked a lot like this:

???

We had absolutely NO IDEA we'd be in this position right now, fighting for a spot at the top of the conference, possibly the league. There wasn't a person on this board, in the organization, or in the media, who expected the Wings to be a serious Cup contender at this point in the season. It wasn't a rebuilding year, more of a re-evaluating year. Take a step back, see what these players were capable of and go from there.

Remember all the saying we'd just be happy if we made the playoffs and that would be nice because of all the turnover and let's not get our expectations too high this year? So much for that, I guess.

That's why Holland didn't bother going after these guys in the offseason. Why mess with something that you already don't have a clue how it'll turn out, and tie up future-wasting money in the process? The answer to Lou's question, Did you not expect this?, is a huge NO!, of course not, not a single one of us expected the Wings to be where they are now. Hindsight is always 20/20.

It's always cup or bust for the Wings nowadays.

I think we operate too close to the cap max just to be pleased to make the playoffs.

Besides,I bet all the players expect and hope to win the cup every season (especially when they play for "bigger" teams like the Wings).

Why should we fans be any different?

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Well to me that article reads like an attempt to soften the blow for wings fans when nothing big happens.

But honestly, as long as Hitchcock walks into the offseason with the drive to add a top notch scoring winger and hopefully fixing the centre issues of the second line then I'm happy.

This year isn't the last year the Wings will be cup contenders! So I'd say it's very, very foolish to make a last ditch effort to bring the cup this season by sacrificing the future, and trading Huds or Flips would have been just that.

Dump J-Willy, line up a Lindstrom prodigy (which some would argue has already been done!) and make sure we've got someone nail down long term for after Hasek retires (again, some see Howard as just this, but I'm not convinced until I see him play in the NHL- not that I'm saying he's bad, but rather I'm wary about prospects until they actually hit the NHL ice).

Ideally then July rolls around: Dats is still wearing a Wings jersey, Lids is signed on for 2 more years minimum, Hasek has proven he's not as injury prone now that he's watching himself and protecting his groin, a great future defense prospect is working out and we have some Lids like career players to look forward to.

I love knowing that a player who's respected and awed league wide is a career Red Wing. But then again who doesn't want that for their favourite team?

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The article says Bert might play this weekend or early next week. I have a feeling the Wings might actually go after Bertuzzi. His price probably wont be that high and other teams will probably stay away from him. It would be a risk, but at the very least he could be a big strong body in the lineup even if he doesnt produce like crazy. And if Willy was part of the deal, the simple fact that he wouldnt be on the ice would improve the team.

Edited by YoungGuns1340

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But honestly, as long as Hitchcock walks into the offseason with the drive to add a top notch scoring winger and hopefully fixing the centre issues of the second line then I'm happy.

I hope that was a typo.

:puke:

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Hey "SouthernWingsFan," I've enjoyed reading your posts over the years and I noticed that you mentioned "Jack," so for you, and anyone else who's interested, click on this link and find-out about "Jack Schitt." If the link doesn't work copy it onto a search engine address bar.

Know Jack Video

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It's always cup or bust for the Wings nowadays.

I think we operate too close to the cap max just to be pleased to make the playoffs.

Besides,I bet all the players expect and hope to win the cup every season (especially when they play for "bigger" teams like the Wings).

Why should we fans be any different?

Because the players' job is to try and win the Cup. They ought to be expected to give it their all for it and at least believe it can happen. We're just along for the ride. I don't think "Cup or bust" is realistic or even a good idea. Mortgage the future for a slightly improved shot at the Cup this year? Three to five years down the road, how do you expect to maintain that level of excellence if you keep taking moon shots?

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According to TSN, St. Louis wants a first round pick and a prospect (Flip... Kindl...) for either Guerin or Tkachuk.

At prices like that, we either need a lot of GMs to laugh in his face until the price drops, pick up some of the less valuable rentals, or stand pat. At this point, the way the prices are out there, I wouldn't feel bad if a move wasn't made.

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how many times has this happened at the trade deadline..... holland has high hopes....... and all the hype is up....... i wouldnt be supprised if we dont make a move... And that will disapoint me because players like (lang, williams, maltby) are disapointing me

Are you serious? HOLLAND'S team remains one of the premier teams in the NHL with what, $8 mill in cap-space remaining? Sounds like a pretty good GM (with the cap) to me- just because a bunch of trade happy fans on the internet are foaming at the mouth for him to make a blockbuster move that wouldn't make sense for the team, doesn't mean that he should- and he won't. He's done, and will continue to do what's best for the team (present and long-term), not to appease EA Sports sofa GMs.

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Has everyone forgotten what this team looked like going into Traverse City this past summer? For those who have, which appears to be most, I'll sum it up. The Red Wings looked a lot like this:

???

We had absolutely NO IDEA we'd be in this position right now, fighting for a spot at the top of the conference, possibly the league. There wasn't a person on this board, in the organization, or in the media, who expected the Wings to be a serious Cup contender at this point in the season. It wasn't a rebuilding year, more of a re-evaluating year. Take a step back, see what these players were capable of and go from there.

Remember all the saying we'd just be happy if we made the playoffs and that would be nice because of all the turnover and let's not get our expectations too high this year? So much for that, I guess.

That's why Holland didn't bother going after these guys in the offseason. Why mess with something that you already don't have a clue how it'll turn out, and tie up future-wasting money in the process? The answer to Lou's question, Did you not expect this?, is a huge NO!, of course not, not a single one of us expected the Wings to be where they are now. Hindsight is always 20/20.

Absolutely. Thumbs up on this one. Unfortunately, it seems that the abundant numbers of Wings fans, when they see a few pieces of the cake, start feeling entitled to the entire thing.

Well to me that article reads like an attempt to soften the blow for wings fans when nothing big happens.

But honestly, as long as Hitchcock walks into the offseason with the drive to add a top notch scoring winger and hopefully fixing the centre issues of the second line then I'm happy.

This year isn't the last year the Wings will be cup contenders! So I'd say it's very, very foolish to make a last ditch effort to bring the cup this season by sacrificing the future, and trading Huds or Flips would have been just that.

Dump J-Willy, line up a Lindstrom prodigy (which some would argue has already been done!) and make sure we've got someone nail down long term for after Hasek retires (again, some see Howard as just this, but I'm not convinced until I see him play in the NHL- not that I'm saying he's bad, but rather I'm wary about prospects until they actually hit the NHL ice).

Ideally then July rolls around: Dats is still wearing a Wings jersey, Lids is signed on for 2 more years minimum, Hasek has proven he's not as injury prone now that he's watching himself and protecting his groin, a great future defense prospect is working out and we have some Lids like career players to look forward to.

I love knowing that a player who's respected and awed league wide is a career Red Wing. But then again who doesn't want that for their favourite team?

Noooo Drake NOOOOO..... you spelled Lidstrom wrong! NOOOO!!!!

Anyway, agreed otherwise-- Lang and Willy need to go. I never thought I'd say this, but I actually miss Sammy now.

Edited by Crymson

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Are you serious? HOLLAND'S team remains one of the premier teams in the NHL with what, $8 mill in cap-space remaining?

I agree with what you said but the Wings have $2 million in cap space.

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I agree with what you said but the Wings have $2 million in cap space.

Prorated over the season it means a little more, no?

Anyway. Hmm... a move should be made, but Holland should stay away from the loan sharks in St Louis.

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