2007 College Football Season Talk

Hockeytown Red Wings · August 6, 2007

I actually agree with what he said - it's the truth, just noone wants to awknowledge that. I actually went to Michigan at the same time as him - actually knew him - and it's true all the football players were in 'sports communications". It's a widepread problem not just to Michigan but the whole NCAA - actually college sports - NCAA basketball is 10x worse - they're a joke. I don't see it as backstabbling at all - although I do question why he is bringing all this up now (yes the job thing - but Carr isn't going anywhere yet). He'll always be a Michigan guy even if he is saying something unpopular with the University.

p.s. noone answered my question about the Big 10 network? Maybe noone knows anything yet? I guess I'm in jeapordy of seeing NO Big Ten games if they are excluded from the espn gameplan.

I dont have a definitive answer for you, but I remember reading on the Buckeye boards that some guy in California was gonna get screwed over in your very same situation. I guess I didnt want to be the bearer of possible bad news.

BlakChamber · August 6, 2007

Dead on. If Harbaugh wanted to make a statement about Stanford vs. college athletics in general, why didn't he use any school but his own? Or why even name names? And why, when Jamie Morris called him up, didn't he clarify instead of stubbornly restating his exact words? Sure, there'd be a "circle jerk" in Ann Arbor if someone said that stuff about Ohio State....but you can't tell me there's not a circle jerk in East Lansing right now over this. You can't tell me Mateen Cleaves wouldn't get the same treatment from State fans if he were to badmouth Tom Izzo.

The Izzo comparison doesn't work. Harbaugh isn't saying that Lloyd is the one who pushes kids of medicore intelligence into easy majors, he's saying it's the school who does it.

And the other difference between if someone said it about MSU, is that MSU doesn't try to hold itself out as the Harvard of the midwest. If someone came out and said MSU (or any other Big 10 school besides Northwestern) was taking dumb athletes and putting them in easy majors, the general reponse would be "duh."

The statement would have probably been more effective he if said he was talking about college athletics in general. Plus, his status as a "Michigan Man" wouldn't get called into question.

mannysBETTER3434 · August 7, 2007

BIG TEN NETWORK and ESPN GAMEPLAN question:

If anyone has any info on the new Big ten network can you share it with us? I subscribe to ESPN gameplan and I noticed the flyer in the mail lists all conferences EXCEPT the Big Ten, and there are quite obviously missing pictures of any Big Ten teams in their flyer - usually have at least UM and OSU on there...

The BigTenNetwork site just says they have some kind of contract with Directv, but not sure which states, etc.

I need to cancel this by Aug 26th if the Big Ten is not aired through ESPN anymore. However, the losers at DirecTV cannot even tell me what the situation is - they have a contract with the Big Ten network - but it *might* just be for the Big Ten states. They cannot guarantee me that the Big Ten will be included this year in the ESPN package - which is the only reason I pay for it in the first place.

Any info?

Sorry if this was discussed above - I cannot read all 3 pages right now...

thx

Heres your answer from a U-M blog...

In short: if you have ESPN and ESPN2, there is no such thing as a regional ABC game anymore. All Big Ten games on ABC will be shown in markets that aren't receiving the game on either ESPN or ESPN2. No more frantically hoping that the daft programming director avoids UConn-BC. Every game that Michigan plays is either on the Big Ten Network or nationally televised. As a result: Michigan fans should NOT get Gameplan unless they want it for ACC/SEC/Big 12/etc purposes."

If you have Direct TV you should be all set because the Big Ten Channel will be on there.

Edited August 7, 2007 by mannysBETTER3434

Hockeytown Red Wings · August 7, 2007

Heres your answer from a U-M blog...

In short: if you have ESPN and ESPN2, there is no such thing as a regional ABC game anymore. All Big Ten games on ABC will be shown in markets that aren't receiving the game on either ESPN or ESPN2. No more frantically hoping that the daft programming director avoids UConn-BC. Every game that Michigan plays is either on the Big Ten Network or nationally televised. As a result: Michigan fans should NOT get Gameplan unless they want it for ACC/SEC/Big 12/etc purposes."

If you have Direct TV you should be all set because the Big Ten Channel will be on there.

Problem is, it seems that only DirecTv has it. Which would be fine if I was home, but I have Time Warner cable. It's not a big deal since I'll be at all the home games....but I'm worried about road games.

RockyMountainWingGal · August 8, 2007

Heres your answer from a U-M blog...

In short: if you have ESPN and ESPN2, there is no such thing as a regional ABC game anymore. All Big Ten games on ABC will be shown in markets that aren't receiving the game on either ESPN or ESPN2. No more frantically hoping that the daft programming director avoids UConn-BC. Every game that Michigan plays is either on the Big Ten Network or nationally televised. As a result: Michigan fans should NOT get Gameplan unless they want it for ACC/SEC/Big 12/etc purposes."

If you have Direct TV you should be all set because the Big Ten Channel will be on there.

Thanks - although I called Directv and they cannot tell me if I will even get the Big Ten Network since I am outside the midwest "footprint". I would of course be willing to pay for that station nonetheless and cancel the espn gameplan.

THe only reason I have the gameplan is because of the stupid "regional" ABC telecasts - always pissed me off - I should get to choose which game I want to see. I'm still suspicious that I'll get all UM games. I guess I can cancel my gameplan and just see what happens this season - usually I get about half the games regardless.

thanks for the info.

eva unit zero · August 8, 2007

Yes. Although I bet they'd be willing to bend the rules for a school like Texas.

The one problem with Texas is their fans. Legions of white trash that couldn't get into the school unless they were pushing a broom. Considering that's a good description of UM's fanbase as well, the Big 10 doesn't need two schools like that

That's an interesting slam, considering that most MSU students have that exact major!

Hockeytown Red Wings · August 9, 2007

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/sto...mp;sportCat=ncf

Pat Forde article about Michigan athletic-academics and how the players aren't held up to the same standards as students. My reaction: Well, no s***....

mannysBETTER3434 · August 10, 2007

LOL! Care to share Greg Oden's classes from last year? U-M is third in the Big 10 for graduation rates, and Forde 'forgets' to leave out the most important fact: 53 Stanford players have undeclared majors.

Hockeytown Red Wings · August 10, 2007

LOL! Care to share Greg Oden's classes from last year? U-M is third in the Big 10 for graduation rates, and Forde 'forgets' to leave out the most important fact: 53 Stanford players have undeclared majors.

Biology 101 and History of Rock and Roll, past that I dont know. Why?

mannysBETTER3434 · August 10, 2007

Biology 101 and History of Rock and Roll, past that I dont know. Why?

I think that was it

BlakChamber · August 10, 2007

LOL! Care to share Greg Oden's classes from last year? U-M is third in the Big 10 for graduation rates, and Forde 'forgets' to leave out the most important fact: 53 Stanford players have undeclared majors.

You seem to be completely missing the point.

It isn't about dumb players at MSU, the graduation rate of players at OSU, or any of the other arguments UM fans have raised to try to deflect attention away from what Harbaugh said.

It's the fact that UM likes to hold itself out as the Harvard of the midwest. That their academics are so much better than the rest of the Big 10, and that they're a state school on top of that. And while UM is a very good university, one of the best public university's in the country, they're also admitting dumb to average students, who wouldn't otherwise be able to get into UM (much like the UM fanbase), and then pushing them off into bulls*** majors. Harbaugh himself said in the article he was steered to communications, a typical major that athletes take. It's basically UM trying to have it both ways. Being a highly regarded university, which they are; and having their "dirty little secret" that there's a bunch of morons playing sports.

The difference between MSU, OSU, and UM is that MSU and OSU don't have a Harvard of the midwest attitude. If a former player said that MSU and OSU have dumb players on their sports teams and they're encouraged to take easy majors, it wouldn't be much of a story. The administrations of the schools would try to spin it, but everyone knows what's going on. But since Harbaugh dares to say this against the Harvard of the midwest, all of a sudden he's a traitor and no longer a Michigan Man?

Here's another quote from a "Michigan Man," and the current President of the University of Florida.

"It's ridiculous. What a homer. I was at Michigan (as provost and dean of the school of dentistry). I know how they get in at Michigan. Don't talk to me about the Nobel laureates at Michigan."

Maybe UM should just admit they admit dumb kids like every other major athletic program in the country.

Packer487 · August 11, 2007

It's the fact that UM likes to hold itself out as the Harvard of the midwest. That their academics are so much better than the rest of the Big 10, and that they're a state school on top of that. And while UM is a very good university, one of the best public university's in the country, they're also admitting dumb to average students, who wouldn't otherwise be able to get into UM (much like the UM fanbase), and then pushing them off into bulls*** majors. Harbaugh himself said in the article he was steered to communications, a typical major that athletes take. It's basically UM trying to have it both ways. Being a highly regarded university, which they are; and having their "dirty little secret" that there's a bunch of morons playing sports.
The difference between MSU, OSU, and UM is that MSU and OSU don't have a Harvard of the midwest attitude. If a former player said that MSU and OSU have dumb players on their sports teams and they're encouraged to take easy majors, it wouldn't be much of a story. The administrations of the schools would try to spin it, but everyone knows what's going on. But since Harbaugh dares to say this against the Harvard of the midwest, all of a sudden he's a traitor and no longer a Michigan Man?

That's funny that you bring up Communications. Harbaugh called Michigan out for "steering" him into that degree, and yet it's the second most popular major on his own team. Yes, you read that right. Stanford football players are 10x more likely than the average student to major in that VERY Communications major that Harbaugh has disdain for.

And while he's in his glass house in California throwing stones at his alma mater for having a little known degree that has a heavy concentration of football players, what's this? A degree at Stanford called Science Technology & Society (Which ALSO allows for a high degree of flexibility and is ripe for exploitation) which has 58 students in it TOTAL. 9 of which are football players. So Stanford football players with declared majors are something like 20x more likely to be an STS major than a normal student.

Harbaugh ripped the General Studies degree for one reason. There are a lot of football players in there. He knows nothing about it and I don't know where he gets off saying "it doesn't prepare you for the real world". How would he know? Does he have a bunch of examples of guys who majored in it and can't find jobs? Does he even have experience in the working world outside of football? Meanwhile, he's got a degree at his school with a higher concentration of football players in it than Michigan has in General Studies (they make up what? 10% of the General Studies population?).

I also love all the comments about the Michigan fanbase not being able to get into school there. Since when did that become a requirement? I'm sure MSU has a decent number of fans that didn't go to school there as well. It's just another case of the Sparty inferiority complex trying to justify a smaller fanbase. Yawn.

It's no secret that Michigan lets in some dumb players. In the age of the internet, these kids' ACT scores are all over the place. I'm not sure why this is such a shocker.

Harbaugh is just trying to build in an excuse in case he keeps going 1-11 (like his predecessor did last year) and needs to look for a new job somewhere. Only letting in the best students to play football is a nice ideal, but the schools that traditionally do so (Stanford, Duke, Rice, Vandy maybe?) suck at football. It's really not the worst thing in the world that these "Borderline" kids get in, and if they end up graduating they've got a degree that carries significant weight, no matter what Harbaugh thinks. No one would've cared if he had a Comm degree vs. a History degree. Most people don't do what they major in anyway. A degree opens the door, the person has to do the rest.

One example: That General Studies degree that Harbaugh "doesn't give you the skill set necessary to succeed in the working world" is working for Pat Massey. He just got hired on at KeyBank as a mergers analyst, right along side one of my buddies who is a Business School grad. Seems like he's pretty prepared.....

Hart was over the line by saying that Harbaugh isn't a Michigan man and that he wishes Harbaugh hadn't played here. But as insulting as that may have been to Harbaugh, it was nothing compared to him knocking the academic accomplishments of students in three separate disciplines at Michigan (Communications, Sports Management, and now General Studies). When he makes those comments, he's not just making a (misguided) statement about the football team, he's insulting thousands of students that have come through that school, including myself.

-Tim

mannysBETTER3434 · August 11, 2007

You seem to be completely missing the point.

It isn't about dumb players at MSU, the graduation rate of players at OSU, or any of the other arguments UM fans have raised to try to deflect attention away from what Harbaugh said.

It's the fact that UM likes to hold itself out as the Harvard of the midwest. That their academics are so much better than the rest of the Big 10, and that they're a state school on top of that. And while UM is a very good university, one of the best public university's in the country, they're also admitting dumb to average students, who wouldn't otherwise be able to get into UM (much like the UM fanbase), and then pushing them off into bulls*** majors. Harbaugh himself said in the article he was steered to communications, a typical major that athletes take. It's basically UM trying to have it both ways. Being a highly regarded university, which they are; and having their "dirty little secret" that there's a bunch of morons playing sports.

The difference between MSU, OSU, and UM is that MSU and OSU don't have a Harvard of the midwest attitude. If a former player said that MSU and OSU have dumb players on their sports teams and they're encouraged to take easy majors, it wouldn't be much of a story. The administrations of the schools would try to spin it, but everyone knows what's going on. But since Harbaugh dares to say this against the Harvard of the midwest, all of a sudden he's a traitor and no longer a Michigan Man?

Here's another quote from a "Michigan Man," and the current President of the University of Florida.

Maybe UM should just admit they admit dumb kids like every other major athletic program in the country.

-Michigan does like to think of themselves as Harvard of the Midwest. I think thats fair to say, but I would never believe for a second that they think that about their sports, just like 95% of every other college. I'm not saying, or ever will say U-M has huge standards for kids who go their for sports.

-It's funny...Harabaugh never brings up the reason why U-M, Bo, and his own father "steered" him out of History to Communications. Jim Harabaugh has dyslexia. There is no way a person with dyslexia can go major in History. There is way to much reading. He was setting himself up for failure.

-General Studies Majors at U-M are not BS. I know this for fact because my brother has one. The GS program gives you pieces of everything. You can use it for many jobs, and be successful. It's alot of hard work just like any other major. Is it easier for athletes? I don't know. I'm sure it is, but I wouldn't call it a cake walk. Also not every U-M football player majors in GS, which some make it sound like.

-If Harabaugh wants to hold his football team to high standards for academics I have no problem with that, but if he turns Stanford around and gets a big time coaching job with a BCS school I expect him to do the same, which I HIGHLY doubt he, nor anyone else would continue to do. It will also be interesting to see how he recruits at Stanford in the next few years. If he is a good recruiter will he take the blue chip QB with average grades, or the average QB that wants to be a scientist? I can't see him talking the smart one.

-I'm sure every single MSU fan went to MSU....yeah right

Edited August 11, 2007 by mannysBETTER3434

BlakChamber · August 11, 2007

Drew Sharp had a good column about the whole matter today.

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article...COL08/708110315

Complimenting Drew Sharp. I feel dirty, excuse me while I go scrub myself with bleach.

mannysBETTER3434 · August 11, 2007

Drew Sharp had a good column about the whole matter today.

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article...COL08/708110315

Complimenting Drew Sharp. I feel dirty, excuse me while I go scrub myself with bleach.

First article I've read from Sharp in over a year. This reminded me of why I stopped reading his busch league reports. Sharp is a U-M hater, and always will be.

Packer487 · August 11, 2007

First article I've read from Sharp in over a year. This reminded me of why I stopped reading his busch league reports. Sharp is a U-M hater, and always will be.

Yup. It COULD have been a good column, if he stripped out all the "this is only because U of M is arrogant" stuff. This is the problem with a guy like Harbaugh getting up on his soapbox. People take his baseless accusations as the gospel truth and it just gives all these hacks like Drew Sharp and Mike Valenti ammunition for their agendas.

-Tim

mannysBETTER3434 · August 11, 2007

Also I think it's funny Sharp has no quotes, interviews, or anything else in his story. It probably took less then an hour to type that garbage up. How does this guy get a job with such a big newspaper?

Hockeytown Red Wings · August 11, 2007

There are 59 players who get their own page in the OSU media guide. Of those players, 21 are listed as undecided, with seven of them entering their junior academic years and 14 of them entering their sophomore academic years.

That leaves 38 with declared majors. Here's that breakdown:

7 Family Resource Management

7 Communications

5 Business Administration

4 Business

3 Sport and Leisure Studies

3 Consumer Affairs

2 Finance

2 Human Development and Family Science

1 each African-American Studies; Social and Behavorial Sciences; History; Political Science; Health Science"

Not necessarily rocket science stuff on average, but no excessive concentration in one jock major either. I know Finance has some really tough courses here, so I'd assume whoever is taking those isn't one of our 5 Star athletes.

Edited August 11, 2007 by Hockeytown Red Wings

BlakChamber · August 12, 2007

Also I think it's funny Sharp has no quotes, interviews, or anything else in his story. It probably took less then an hour to type that garbage up. How does this guy get a job with such a big newspaper?

As bad as Drew Sharp is, he's still better than Rob Parker.

Of course, that's not saying much.

And even the Ann Arbor News is saying that maybe Michigan ought to address the issues Harbaugh is raising. Pretty bad that even old Ed Martin gets a mention in the story

http://www.mlive.com/sports/annarbornews/i....xml&coll=2

mannysBETTER3434 · August 12, 2007

As bad as Drew Sharp is, he's still better than Rob Parker.

Of course, that's not saying much.

And even the Ann Arbor News is saying that maybe Michigan ought to address the issues Harbaugh is raising. Pretty bad that even old Ed Martin gets a mention in the story

http://www.mlive.com/sports/annarbornews/i....xml&coll=2

Haha! You got that right. Parker is busch league too.....

That is a good article...I agree with it.

Edited August 12, 2007 by mannysBETTER3434

BlakChamber · August 12, 2007

Haha! You got that right. Parker is busch league too.....

That is a good article...I agree with it.

Yeah, Parker is just horrible. How he manages to keep a job, I have no idea.

And, here's another fine example of some "Michigan Men."

http://blog.mlive.com/wolverines/2007/08/t...ll_players.html

mannysBETTER3434 · August 13, 2007

Yes those 2 are stupid. I hope Savoy gets kicked off the team. He sucks anyway. I actually know Obi through a freind of mine. I haven't talked to him in over a year, but I was shocked to hear he did that. Every single team has a few bad apples. They can't learn all about them in a few short offical visits when they are being recruited.

BlakChamber · August 13, 2007

True. At least they weren't caught trying to pick up a hooker, like that kid from Notre Dame.

mannysBETTER3434 · August 13, 2007

True. At least they weren't caught trying to pick up a hooker, like that kid from Notre Dame.

Haha! Yeah thats a joke. I'm glad no ND fans come in here...it would be kind of fun though. U-M, MSU, and OSU fans could all team up on the poor little domer.

GoWings1905 · August 13, 2007

Haha! Yeah thats a joke. I'm glad no ND fans come in here...it would be kind of fun though. U-M, MSU, and OSU fans could all team up on the poor little domer.

I love Notre Dame, as evidenced by my other posts in this thread. I have no problem with people "ripping on" Notre Dame. I've heard it all before. I'm sure the originality is just as brilliant here. :rolleyes:

I won't hold anything against you though Manny for saying that, since we both love the Pistons. :thumbup:

Edited August 13, 2007 by GoWings1905

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