Holland: Free Agent Shopping is Probably Done

[Dominator2005 558]

2 more additions, Sutton and Asham/Lapperiere... trade Lilja and Sammy and we are set for the next season...

[OsGOD 3]

So Big H is done with the offseason moves... when did he even start?

[DraperFan MN 0]

GS&T wins the thread.

And all the people said.....AMEN.

[alienanxiety 23]

This is the kind of post that would've been tucked away for a couple years if we had signed a Ryan Smyth to a 5-year deal at over $6m per and we lose Zetterberg to free-agency in two years. In the prime of his career, no less.

Good GMs don't just "shoot for next year" -- they have the foresight to do BOTH.

Why wouldn't we be able to afford Zetterberg AND Smyth? The Rangers seem to be having no problem carrying Drury, Gomez, Jagr, Straka, and soon to be Shanahan. And the Rags STILL have cap room.

Lidstrom is probably playing his last year or two, so there's big money off the table. This will be Hasek's last season, there's more money off the table. We still have millions in cap room as it stands now, PLUS you know the cap goes up a few million every year. We could have given Smyth or Drury or Briere a hefty contract, and been in fine shape to re-sign Zetts.

But I sure am glad Holland made that ridiculous three year deal with Maltby.

Edited July 6, 2007 by alienanxiety

[Dominator2005 558]

So Big H is done with the offseason moves... when did he even start?

I'am asking myself the same question...

[Matt 1,048]

And the Rags STILL have cap room.

Have you looked at the rest of their roster?

Lidstrom is probably playing his last year or two, so there's big money off the table.

You're assuming he's done. But let's just sign Smyth or Drury or Gomez or whoever and then when you've got both Lidstrom and Zetterberg to re-up, there's no room. Lidstrom will be the big re-signing next summer and there has to be room out there to re-sign Zetterberg. If you're going to make a big leap (and Smyth/Gomez/Drury would have been -- not just in money, but in term most importantly) you had better be planning ahead.

We still have millions in cap room as it stands now, PLUS you know the cap goes up a few million every year.

It's not going to continue to go up like that. I think it will rise a few million next summer (boosted by merchandise sales of new jerseys), but it will start to level off.

We could have given Smyth or Drury or Briere a hefty contract, and been in fine shape to re-sign Zetts.

If you *honestly* believe it is/was that easy, then why didn't the Red Wings' front office even explore any of those options? Smyth was heavily rumored, but reports recently stated the Wings didn't even contact him.

Do you believe that Holland/Nill/Babcock & Co. don't even perform due diligence on their free agent options?

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

It's not going to continue to go up like that. I think it will rise a few million next summer (boosted by merchandise sales of new jerseys), but it will start to level off.

If you *honestly* believe it is/was that easy, then why didn't the Red Wings' front office even explore any of those options? Smyth was heavily rumored, but reports recently stated the Wings didn't even contact him.

Do you believe that Holland/Nill/Babcock & Co. don't even perform due diligence on their free agent options?

I agree about the cap. Unless the t.v. deal gets better or the NHL somehow finally markets itself like a grown-up professional sport, I can't see where a ton more revenue will come from. Everyone buying Ducks jerseys?

[bringback91 2]

I may be way off base here but, for those of you who really can't stand the make up of the team, the style they play and the management, wouldn't it just be easier on yourself to root for and follow the teams whom you covet so much? No one's gonna hate on you for throwing on a ducks or a sharks hat once you explain why you've chosen to root for that team. (BIG N.A. players) Not saying I'm a "better" Wings fan or anything like that, but I happen to like what I saw last year, and I like to watch skilled play. If I'm in the mood for some WWF style hockey, there's always the ECHL. Look I love an awesome hockey fight and heavy hits as much as the next guy, but I'd rather have a guy like Kronwall or Franzen who can hit and also have some skill, over Bob Boughner and George Parros.

Don't really understand the strong dis-like showed by some toward European players. The Wings always draft low, and yes, they do draft N.A. players. They just never turn out good enough to be on the team, where-as the Europeans do. I'm glad Kenny's not wasting money for the sake of spending it. Last couple years all I heard was "youth movement!!! Youth Movement!!!", well it's coming around and now everyone wants to ***** about too much this not enough that. It's stupid. Look at where they draft.

Edited July 6, 2007 by bringback91

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

I may be way off base here but, for those of you who really can't stand the make up of the team, the style they play and the management, wouldn't it just be easier on yourself to root for and follow the teams whom you covet so much? No one's gonna hate on you for throwing on a ducks or a sharks hat once you explain why you've chosen to root for that team. (BIG N.A. players) Not saying I'm a "better" Wings fan or anything like that, but I happen to like what I saw last year, and I like to watch skilled play. If I'm in the mood for some WWF style hockey, there's always the ECHL. Look I love an awesome hockey fight and heavy hits as much as the next guy, but I'd rather have a guy like Kronwall or Franzen who can hit and also have some skill, over Bob Boughner and George Parros.

Don't really understand the strong dis-like showed by some toward European players. The Wings always draft low, and yes, they do draft N.A. players. They just never turn out good enough to be on the team, where-as the Europeans do. I'm glad Kenny's not wasting money for the sake of spending it. Last couple years all I heard was "youth movement!!! Youth Movement!!!", well it's coming around and now everyone wants to ***** about too much this not enough that. It's stupid. Look at where they draft.

I haven't read the whole thread, but have people even been talking about how the Wings specifically need N.A. players?

Edited July 6, 2007 by haroldsnepsts

[N4C3R 0]

Personally I think Kenny has done well so far. The Rafalski signing was a great move, not signing a big name free agent so far also has been a great move. I think most teams have overpaid for the Unrestricted Free Agents that have been available this year.

I like where we stand right now, and firmly believe our youth needs time on the ice at the NHL level to continue their development. I firmly believe we can get to the playoffs with this team, and we'll have a lot of cap space left to work with as needed.

Do I wish the Wings were bigger and grittier? Yes, that's simply a personal preference. Do I love this team no matter what? Absolutely, there's a reason I bleed red.

-P

[OsGOD 3]

I may be way off base here but, for those of you who really can't stand the make up of the team, the style they play and the management, wouldn't it just be easier on yourself to root for and follow the teams whom you covet so much? No one's gonna hate on you for throwing on a ducks or a sharks hat once you explain why you've chosen to root for that team. (BIG N.A. players) Not saying I'm a "better" Wings fan or anything like that, but I happen to like what I saw last year, and I like to watch skilled play. If I'm in the mood for some WWF style hockey, there's always the ECHL. Look I love an awesome hockey fight and heavy hits as much as the next guy, but I'd rather have a guy like Kronwall or Franzen who can hit and also have some skill, over Bob Boughner and George Parros.

Yep me too... which is why it sucks watching 4 (possibly 5 with markov) walk out the door. I might also add replacing them with one person I really couldn't care less for. I am sure he will be alright for the team... but adding him doesn't equal the loss of the others for me.

Edited July 6, 2007 by OsGOD

[bringback91 2]

Yep me too... which is why it sucks watching 4 (possibly 5 with markov) walk out the door. I might also add replacing them with one person I really couldn't care less for. I am sure he will be alright for the team... but adding him doesn't equal the loss of the others for me.

Yeah, but two of them weren't even here the whole year and really did nothing. I am a big fan of #23 but he's been replaced by a younger and bit better player. (although I wished he'd stayed, no fault of Kenny though) Everyone knew Lang was gone and he's easily replaced by Flip, or a certain "buy out" or deadline aquisiton..... .... but yeah I do agree about Markov. I really like the guys style back there, a good mix with the skilled guys. But hey, some youth gets mixed in and Lilja really stepped up the physical play at the end of last year, I expect that to continue. Kinda excited to see what can be done from within the system, rather than grabbing the flavor of the week.

Harold, yeah in this thread and many others. Been quite a few mentions of just that "specifically N.A. players"

[OsGOD 3]

Although I really do like the holding out on cash now to acquire sergei in march!

Edited July 6, 2007 by OsGOD

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Harold, yeah in this thread and many others. Been quite a few mentions of just that "specifically N.A. players"

I get so tired of that ridiculous crap about how they need canadian boys to get the right type of player, though honestly I see a lot less of it here than on other hockey boards, like hfboards.

I could care less where they come from, I just want the toughness back. Some of the Russians we used to have on the Wings were the toughest S.O.B's you could ever find.

[bringback91 2]

I get so tired of that ridiculous crap about how they need canadian boys to get the right type of player, though honestly I see a lot less of it here than on other hockey boards, like hfboards.

I could care less where they come from, I just want the toughness back. Some of the Russians we used to have on the Wings were the toughest S.O.B's you could ever find.

100% agreed. I don't care if there from Moosejaw or Moscow, if they can play they can play. I just don't think the Wings are in as bad of shape as some are making it out to be. Besides, sure would be nice to have that 6 or 7 mil or whatever is left at the dead line when players contracts are cut in like half.

[FinWing 26]

I get so tired of that ridiculous crap about how they need canadian boys to get the right type of player, though honestly I see a lot less of it here than on other hockey boards, like hfboards.

I could care less where they come from, I just want the toughness back. Some of the Russians we used to have on the Wings were the toughest S.O.B's you could ever find.

Vladdie...

[sticknmove 0]

This is my first "post" here at LGW however I have probably checked the site twice a day for the last year and half so I am not totally out of the loop with certain individuals views and opinions here. First off i want to get across I am in no way calling different point of views wrong, or disregarding them I am simply stating how i feel. First off last year was amazing, started to get that playoff swagger we missed so badly in the previous years, we started to look like the red wings who were the first detroit team to re-introduce the word championship back into the city, before the pistons and tigers (whom which i only wish success). With the loss the Anaheim in the conf. finals the wings impressed a lot of people, commentators, fans, hockey personalities and yes I still to this day believe we should have won the series, but we didnt, no reason to hang the heads it was a great ending to a great season leaving us with a intense excitement for "next" year. sadly, this has been a off season in which we took a leap, not a jump, in the worg direction.

Starting off, I am a lang fan but i am not even going to try to defend him, even my own father chastises me for making that argument so i will sum that up as a fan v. reality view on my part. Next, Matt Schnider was as big of loss as we could have taken aside from Hank, Dats, or Lids. He was an anchor on the ice and in the locker room AND was part of the chemistry which lead us to the conf finals. I understand salary cap and am not blaming anyone I am just stating that i think we could have done a little more to lock him up, Brian Rafalski is good, great even but he will not come close to filling the void Schnids left (maybe stat wise but not in the other areas, which are equally important). Then we lose Bertuzzi, arggggggg, i mean I am not even a huge Bertuzzi fan but FINALLY we sign a bug, tough, grit guy and BAM he's gone. Now let me reiterate, I am not insane about Bertuzzi however i love what that type of player brings and i do not know if this is news to anyone BUT a winning NHL team needs grit. I am not talking about the cute shove Dats gives after a whistle, or a facewash Franzen gives once the linesmen are in the middle I am talking about a guy that will drop the mits WHEN NEED BE, i am a firm believer and supporter of fighting place in hockey as I feel many are who truely know the sport (i am sure there are some that know ligh years more then me what disagree and that is fine but i think the general concensus is fighting serves its purpose and belongs in the game) so getting bertuzzi was a nice refreshment (i mean asking for much more ie MgGratton, Parros type almost got my head bitten off at another RW forum) so i figured that bertuzzi was as close to a tough guy as we were going to see under this new regime in detroit hockey. well now what? hudler? great but come on, he is young, unproven and not the miracle that so many make him up to be. Flips, great young player but same as Hudler in regards to age. I understand we need to give these guys there shot but at what cost. Hockey is not a pattycake sport which i am sure everyone here is aware about, we need a mean streak, yes we need a norton type to play a role (kind of like parros on Anaheim and last time i checked he didnt hinded their winning the stanley cup) and until we have that we will not win a cup. simple as that, i am not a fan of goon hockey but i also know the difference and idea oif having a policeman to watch over guys like Huds and Flip (and no chelios jawing on the way to the bench does not constitute as policing for your team) I know i will get alot of slam replies saying i am wrong but there is a formula to stanley cup winning teams and wether you like fighting, enforcing or not, it is a big part of that formula. And until Det realizes it then we will be seeing a lof of offseasons in the future saying "build for the future" or "next year". now below is a link to a video i made prior to the 05-06 oilers series but it chronicles the wings throuhgout the 90's all it really is clips from other great vids that i chopped up, and put to music. some ppl like it and others do not, anyways if i used clips of anyone here in it thank you but if ya have a min check it out.

ps-sorry bout the bad grammar! hey its summa

[Guest Crymson]

...I love wasting money. Hasek said he was going to play in Detroit only or retire. Holland should have offered him $1MM or let him retire. I would be just as confident with Osgood/Howard...

...take a look at this team, out of 12 forwards, 3, THREE!!!! of them are North American. WTF!!!! This lineup is the absolute worst looking lineup I have EVER seen in this city! Lets see, we lose what VERY LITTLE grit we had and what do we do? Resign a useless, soft, piece of crap whatever the f*ck he is European...

...pardon me being mad, but crap! EVERY F*CKING YEAR we hear the same sh*t! "We have to get bigger and grittier!" We hear this from Holland himself!!! What does he do? Waste money and just signs a bunch of useless European players. I tired of it. I am really proud of this team, team f*cking Europe, just f*cking great! Why don't we change the jersey's and put the names of the players BELOW the numbers? Crap, we can't anymore European, may as well go for the whole 9! How long until Ken Holland gets a mention from Geoge W. C*cksucker Bush for giving the Red Wings North American jobs away!?!?

...I know, I know, not quite the same, but crap! I am so tired of this little, afraid to hit team. It'd be different if Holland didn't blow smoke up our butts (much like our Government) and do the complete oposite of what he said he was gonna do. What did he say last off-season? "I don't want to sign anyone long term because NEXT years crop of UFA's will be better to choose from. HE IS SAYING THE SAME CRAP NOW!!!! You know what Kenny? You lost out on Comrie. You could have given Comrie the same money, do you think he'd rather play here or the Island? Let me guess, Comrie is not our type of player, why? Because he wasn't born in Europe, doesn't talk with an accent, likes to hit, has a mean streak to him, what is it Kenny, why wern't you interested in Comrie? Oh!! Hakken Luben was available for twice as much money, and Jukken Laben, your European scout says he is great, although he's 37...

...pardon my rant, but holy jessie!!! Where's the Tylonol?

He signed Datsyuk, Holmstrom and Rafalski long-term. The rest of the UFAs went for far too much or weren't worth it. Your constant bitching about nothing is really starting to get on my nerves. You seem to want Holland to make moves, no matter if they're terrible for the team, and you get angry when he doesn't make them. I've got a bit of news for you, champ: Holland's job is not to make you feel less anxious. His job is to create a team which can win. He has done a damned fine job at this throughout his career. He also knows, as do most of the rest of us, that we had zero problems with physicality in this last playoff year. We went hit-for-hit with the three extremely-physical teams we played against. Before you mention Bertuzzi, you should recall that he didn't use his body for crap in the playoffs. He was barely even willing to drive the net, let alone hit.

Holland's job is to make a good team, and he knows more about that area than you ever will, so stop moaning about why he didn't sign Comrie; he clearly didn't want Comrie on the team, and I'm for damned sure confident that he knows far, far better on the issue than you do.

Nobody cares about whether the team is all Euros, but yes, we should really look back in history and scold ourselves for tying up total wusses like Vladdy. We should, also, be very wary in the future about signing softies like Zdeno Chara and Samuel PÃ¥hlsson. Give me a break.

Go dunk your head in water elsewhere.

Edited July 6, 2007 by Crymson

[bringback91 2]

^^

While a somewhat extreme example, this was the stuff I was talking about here Harold, that Crymson quoted.

sticknmove, welcome. Cool video. I respectfully disagree with the thought that an enforcer ala George Parros is nessicary. That's a waste of a roster spot IMO. Sure I like to watch his fights, but I wouldn't want him taking a spot with the Wings. With all due respect, Parros had absolutely no bearing on anything the Ducks accomplished. Sure he didn't hurt them, but because he didn't play. No worries though, you'll find many here that do share your opinion.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

^^

While a somewhat extreme example, this was the stuff I was talking about here Harold, that Crymson quoted.

posts like that one are particularly moronic coming from a Wings fan considering the great Russians and euros we've had on the team on the past and at present.

Vladdy was tough and nasty. At 6'1" and 215 lbs, Fetisov was a big tough force on the blueline. And even Feds at 6'1" 200 lbs was incredibly hard to move off the puck.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

posts like that one are particularly moronic coming from a Wings fan considering the great Russians and euros we've had on the team on the past and at present.

Vladdy was tough and nasty. At 6'1" and 215 lbs, Fetisov was a big tough force on the blueline. And even Feds at 6'1" 200 lbs was incredibly hard to move off the puck.

Who'd be stupid enough to not call Vladdy the meanest SOB ever , because thats exactly what he was. Plus he had more talent then Ovechkin.

Im not saying that this team doesnt need euros/russians. But you need a good blend of N.A , European and Russian players. We had it in all the years we won the cup , we do not have it now. But im with you , I just want some size and mean nasty players. I'll take Raitas Ivanans , but I doubt the Kings would give him him up.

[sticknmove 0]

How is Parros a waste of a spot? IfI i am correct we had 2-3 players on our roster that didnt play much, at all did they eat up spots? i am saying use one of those spots for a tough guy simply dont dress your tough guys when it is not neccessary (thats what i was getting at with parros). did he have a huge impact on the ducks winning the cup? no, of course not but he was part of the team throughout the year that got them there. part of the bigger formula i was talking about earlier, he was a role player who did what was asked game in and game out and that did contribute to the teams success overall

[Guest Crymson]

Well let's just say we're blessed to be playing in the weakest division in hockey. I always hated when people said that because I knew it didn't matter, that we were a great team anyways. But this year we truly will need to be in the s***tiest division to survive.

Well, I'll be. I don't think I've ever seen something like this before. If I were in your presence, I'd probably metaphorically rip your arm off and beat you with it for this comment. My goodness. What a defeatist. Wow. Sheesh. I'm blown away.

You suck.

man... we do not look good for next season. but i wonder if holland is just gearing up for the future. Look at all of the upcoming players: Kronwall, filpulla, hudler, smith, howard, grigorenko, kindl... not too shabby, no? oh and i thought the main reason hasek was coming back is to win a stanley cup. Would anyone else here agree that our chances of that are a tad bit lower this year?

Another person who doesn't really think. Aside from Markov, who is still a question mark, we've lost precisely one guy from last year: Lang. No, we don't "not look good for next season."

Our chances are just as "tad bit lower" this offseason as they were last offseason. Gosh. Same crap, different year.

[bringback91 2]

How is Parros a waste of a spot? IfI i am correct we had 2-3 players on our roster that didnt play much, at all did they eat up spots? i am saying use one of those spots for a tough guy simply dont dress your tough guys when it is not neccessary (thats what i was getting at with parros). did he have a huge impact on the ducks winning the cup? no, of course not but he was part of the team throughout the year that got them there. part of the bigger formula i was talking about earlier, he was a role player who did what was asked game in and game out and that did contribute to the teams success overall

I guess I just would rather any tough guy thats on the roster, actually be able to play if say someone gets hurt or something and he's pressed into regular game play. I'm not at all opposed to toughness and fighting. Harold had a good post in another thread about ex-wing tough guys. And with the exception of Joey K. and Grimson they could all also produce some points and some forchecking. They could skate. Chris Neil, DMac back in the day, hell even Domi before retirement tough guys that would take on heavy weights that can also play. I'll give you the fact I would take Parros over Langfeld. Can't argue that.

I'm really not trying to argue or anything, but honestly Parros had as much to do with any Ducks succsess as I did. If someone is going to cheapshot one of your stars there going to do it. I mean did Probert and Joey stop people from taking runs at Steive and Klima. Nope, they'd beat the piss out of them after the fact, but it stops nothing. And Probert was on Stevies line alot of the time. How often would Parros be out there at the same time as Z or Dats? Once again I love hockey fights, love the heavy weights going at it, sad fact is that spots for "enforcers" are running dry, if you can't play too, your not going to be around long.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

...ok, none of us are GM's, I understand. Sure, Guerin was given too much money and he obvsiously donesn't care about winning a Cup by signing on the Island for $4.5MM. I wonder if he did want to win if he would have taken $3MM to come to a winner? For that I blame Guerin, not Holland. BUT, I do blame him for giving Hasek TOO much money, I blame him for not offering Comrie enough money, he could have easliy given him the exact amount that Comrie signed for. I blame him for resigning Hudler. He should have let someone else sign him an get the draft pick(s.) My only problem is his rhetoric statements EVERY year about getting bigger and stronger. Sure he was not willing to pay the amount of cash other GM's were, but there were cheaper alternatives out there instead of icing a worse team than last year.

Hasek at $2M/year is still a steal.

And do you or anybody else in here have any clue how hard being a general manager, of not just a sports franchise, but any business?

I'm definitely not a know it all with sports figures and dollar signs but the last time I checked, GMs in the general sense have to manage multiple employees, operations of a business, and monetary spending, among other things.

It's a lot harder than what you might read on the Internet or do when you play hockey on the PlayStation.

I'm glad Holland doesn't make business deals out of panic like a lot of people on LGW would.

Edited July 7, 2007 by SouthernWingsFan