VM1138 1,921 Report post Posted August 20, 2007 With Homer they were THE BEST LINE IN THE NHL!!! Why why why break it up? Bowman broke up his lines (i.e the Grind Line) all the time. The regular season is for experimenting. He reassembles the important lines for playoffs. Here's a question. How do you guys think Babcock decides who goes on the top line, Datsyuk or Zetterberg? In my mind they both play at the same level, but maybe Zetterberg is slightly better in the leadership department (he's definitely a future captain). So what pushes Datsyuk above Zetterberg in Babcock's mind? Mind you, I'm not belitting Datys, they're two of the best players in the league, it'd be hard to pick one over the other. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Opie 308 Report post Posted August 20, 2007 I think he puts Z on the first line, he is going to be the heir apparent to Yzerman. Plus the wings have said that Grigs will be with Dats to start the season, you don't really want him on the first line, yet. So ... Sammy (not my first choice but he deserves it) Zetterberg Holmstrom Grigorenko (the wings have said as much) Datsyuk Filpula (a role I think he shines in) Cleary Franzen Kopecky/Hudler ( I think Huds has earned it, not sure babs thinks so) Maltby Draper Drake Of course this is all subject to whether or not they pick up a top 6 forward or not. I think for the first couple of months you will see line one stay the same while line two shuffles Cleary & Huds in and out to find out who plays best with Datsyuk. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eva unit zero 271 Report post Posted August 20, 2007 Bowman broke up his lines (i.e the Grind Line) all the time. The regular season is for experimenting. He reassembles the important lines for playoffs. Here's a question. How do you guys think Babcock decides who goes on the top line, Datsyuk or Zetterberg? In my mind they both play at the same level, but maybe Zetterberg is slightly better in the leadership department (he's definitely a future captain). So what pushes Datsyuk above Zetterberg in Babcock's mind? Mind you, I'm not belitting Datys, they're two of the best players in the league, it'd be hard to pick one over the other. Zetterberg is significantly better than Dats...so the listed order either doesn't mean anything as faras ice time, or it's a function of line strength, and Dats' playmaking is seen as a better asset given the wingers he'll be with vs the wingers Hank will have. And if it is looking like that, I would expect Hudler on Dats' line, to give him every shot at becoming the sniper he's shown he could be. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SouthernHockeyHoney 20 Report post Posted August 20, 2007 To get off the subject of the forward lines for a minute, obviously Babcock is letting the younger players fight it out for the 6th and 7th defensman positions. Should I assume, that Lidstrom, Rafalski, Chelios, and Kronwall are FIRMLY the top four? Why no mention of Lilja...isn't he a 6th or 7th d-man? Wouldn't that only leave 1 positon available? Just curious. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YoungGuns1340 1 Report post Posted August 20, 2007 To get off the subject of the forward lines for a minute, obviously Babcock is letting the younger players fight it out for the 6th and 7th defensman positions. Should I assume, that Lidstrom, Rafalski, Chelios, and Kronwall are FIRMLY the top four? Why no mention of Lilja...isn't he a 6th or 7th d-man? Wouldn't that only leave 1 positon available? Just curious. Babs just said that Lilja will be playing with Kronwall, and its easy to see why theyre keeping Lilja in the top 6. The departure of Markov leaves little physicality, and while he hasnt done it consistently over his career, Lilja showed over the last part of the season he COULD be a physical Dman. My bet is that Babcock will do all he can to make sure Lilja keeps up with the physical edge, and make sure Lilja knows that his minutes are contingent upon a physical performance. I like the idea of a Drake-Kopecky-Maltby line. That gives Kopecky some responsibility as the center and Im willing to bet that having Drake on that line will help Kopecky with his game and rub off on Maltby. As of now, Id also be willing to bet that Drake will be the most physical forward in the lineup, even if he didnt play that way last season with the Blues. He knows he was signed to be a gritty, physical presence, and Maltbys little ice time will be in jeopardy even more if theres an apparent, vast difference between the physicality of Maltby and Drake. oh yeah, and Chelios-Lebda will be the bottom pairing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Son of a Wing 1,644 Report post Posted August 20, 2007 To get off the subject of the forward lines for a minute, obviously Babcock is letting the younger players fight it out for the 6th and 7th defensman positions. Should I assume, that Lidstrom, Rafalski, Chelios, and Kronwall are FIRMLY the top four? Why no mention of Lilja...isn't he a 6th or 7th d-man? Wouldn't that only leave 1 positon available? Just curious. Well actually Babcock says he plans on playing Lilja with Kronner on the second line. Chelios will more than likely be rotating on the 6th spot all season long to keep him fresh for playoffs. So that leaves Lebda, Meech, Quincey, Ference, Ericsson and Kindl to battle for a fulltime spot and a rotating spot with Chelios. I would think that for most the season Lebda and Chelios will man the 3rd pairing with Meech subbing in for Lebda and Quincey subbing in for Chelios if either get injured or under perform. Why rush Kindl and Ericsson? We are deep enough to be patient and let them develop right. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bringback91 2 Report post Posted August 20, 2007 Zetterberg is significantly better than Dats... At what exactly? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theman19 47 Report post Posted August 20, 2007 At what exactly? Defense. While pavel's Defensive game has improved significantly from last season Z is still one of the most underrated two way forwards in the NHL. Had he not been injured he'd have certainly garnered a selke nomination. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
norrisnick 1 Report post Posted August 20, 2007 At what exactly? I'm going to go out on a limb and say hockey. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Echolalia 2,961 Report post Posted August 20, 2007 I think he puts Z on the first line, he is going to be the heir apparent to Yzerman. Plus the wings have said that Grigs will be with Dats to start the season, you don't really want him on the first line, yet. So ... what? Where does it say that Grigs is pairing up with Dats at the start of the season? link plz Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
norrisnick 1 Report post Posted August 20, 2007 what? Where does it say that Grigs is pairing up with Dats at the start of the season? link plz It was a comment Jim NIll made a few weeks ago when discussing Grigorenko's potential. They see him as a 2nd line talent that would potentially work on Pavel's wing (they were linemates at the '03 World Championships). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Opie 308 Report post Posted August 20, 2007 Sorry I read into the left wing as that will be the spot for grigs. My post should have been The wings have BASICALLY said that grigs..... amazing how trying to work while posting leads you to leave words out. sorry! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Echolalia 2,961 Report post Posted August 20, 2007 Awesome thanks I really hope Grigs turns out to be that solid. It would solve alot of problems. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
betterREDthandead 58 Report post Posted August 20, 2007 I'm going to go out on a limb and say hockey. Very true....Datsyuk is a better stickhandler and near unstoppable on breakaways, and most of the time, a better passer, but at all around hockey, Zetterberg's got him beat in almost all facets of the game. Scoring, instincts, defense, penalty kill, leadership, physicality, shot strength.....Datsyuk does most of these things well, Zetterberg does them better. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dominator2005 558 Report post Posted August 20, 2007 In this day and age, Samuelsson is a top line player. You want to have guys who are cheap that can fill out the top 6 who can play in all offensive situations. Samuelsson has been a 20 goal scorer since he got here, had he not gotten injured last year he would've scored 20 goals again, that's about what you should expect from the guy. There's nothing wrong with Samuelsson on the 2nd line. Maybe only - and I said only on the XBOX or PS... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GMRwings1983 8,804 Report post Posted August 20, 2007 In this day and age, Samuelsson is a top line player. You want to have guys who are cheap that can fill out the top 6 who can play in all offensive situations. Samuelsson has been a 20 goal scorer since he got here, had he not gotten injured last year he would've scored 20 goals again, that's about what you should expect from the guy. There's nothing wrong with Samuelsson on the 2nd line. Except for 2 games against San Jose, Samuelsson did nothing for us all year. He was constantly maligned by Wings fans, and had Robert Lang to thank for not being the biggest whipping boy of the team. All of a sudden now, he's a top line player? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
norrisnick 1 Report post Posted August 21, 2007 Except for 2 games against San Jose, Samuelsson did nothing for us all year. He was constantly maligned by Wings fans, and had Robert Lang to thank for not being the biggest whipping boy of the team. All of a sudden now, he's a top line player? He's a top 6 player by virtue of there being a salary cap. When healthy he's a 20/20 guy. You can't ask for much more than that from a $1.2M/yr 2nd liner. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Heaton 1 Report post Posted August 21, 2007 Except for 2 games against San Jose, Samuelsson did nothing for us all year. He was constantly maligned by Wings fans, and had Robert Lang to thank for not being the biggest whipping boy of the team. All of a sudden now, he's a top line player? All of a sudden? Samuelsson has been a 20 goal player since he was signed in Detroit, I'm always baffled by people who want 20 goal scorers but are surprised when they don't score in the other 62 games. Samuelsson is a top 6 player on this team until someone starts producing more than him. Even if Hudler continues his pace, Grigorenko will have to outplay Samuelsson for Sammy to not be needed on one of the top 2 lines. It's not an ideal situation and I wish we had someone else to take his spot, but the truth remains that Samuelsson plays well with Zetterberg and isn't a liability defensively. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dominator2005 558 Report post Posted August 21, 2007 He's a top 6 player by virtue of there being a salary cap. When healthy he's a 20/20 guy. You can't ask for much more than that from a $1.2M/yr 2nd liner. Only when plays with Datsyuk or Zetterberg... Let's not forget PP time that he's getting... he should be 40/40 guy... All of a sudden? Samuelsson has been a 20 goal player since he was signed in Detroit, I'm always baffled by people who want 20 goal scorers but are surprised when they don't score in the other 62 games. Samuelsson is a top 6 player on this team until someone starts producing more than him. Even if Hudler continues his pace, Grigorenko will have to outplay Samuelsson for Sammy to not be needed on one of the top 2 lines. It's not an ideal situation and I wish we had someone else to take his spot, but the truth remains that Samuelsson plays well with Zetterberg and isn't a liability defensively. Who can't play well with Zetterberg? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SouthernWingsFan 854 Report post Posted August 21, 2007 Only when plays with Datsyuk or Zetterberg... Let's not forget PP time that he's getting... he should be 40/40 guy... While they certainly have more potential to than Samuelsson, getting Datsyuk and Zetterberg to be consistent 40-40 producers is a tough chore to ask as well... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Heaton 1 Report post Posted August 21, 2007 Only when plays with Datsyuk or Zetterberg... Let's not forget PP time that he's getting... he should be 40/40 guy... No he shouldn't, Samuelsson is what he is, he doesn't have the talent to be a 40/40 guy. Since Holmstrom plays with Datsyuk AND Zetterberg shouldn't he be a 50/50 guy since he's potted 30 the past 2 years? You need to put Samuelsson the player into perspective. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dominator2005 558 Report post Posted August 21, 2007 No he shouldn't, Samuelsson is what he is, he doesn't have the talent to be a 40/40 guy. Since Holmstrom plays with Datsyuk AND Zetterberg shouldn't he be a 50/50 guy since he's potted 30 the past 2 years? You need to put Samuelsson the player into perspective. You can't compare Homer with Sammy... please don't do that. We know what Homer brings to the Red Wings but I don't know what Sammy brings more than Cleary or Filppula or even Franzen... Don't get me wrong, all I'm saying is that with all opportunities (linemates, PP time...) that Sammy is getting he should be able to produce more. He should be more physical... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Heaton 1 Report post Posted August 21, 2007 You can't compare Homer with Sammy... please don't do that. We know what Homer brings to the Red Wings but I don't know what Sammy brings more than Cleary or Filppula or even Franzen... Don't get me wrong, all I'm saying is that with all opportunities (linemates, PP time...) that Sammy is getting he should be able to produce more. He should be more physical... It's a valid comparison, before Holmstrom got onto the Datsyuk/Zetterberg line he was a 15-20 goal scorer, before Samuelsson got onto a line with Zetterberg he wasn't even a 10 goal scorer. Of course Holmstrom is a better player, but the fact remains that Samuelsson is a 20 goal scorer on this team and not even Datsyuk AND Zetterberg together is going to turn him into 40 goal scoring power forward. Your expectations are too high. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kp-Wings 3 Report post Posted August 21, 2007 Samulesson is no more a top line player then Cleary is. Note that Cleary also scored 20 goals before. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
norrisnick 1 Report post Posted August 21, 2007 Samulesson is no more a top line player then Cleary is. Note that Cleary also scored 20 goals before. Cleary is better defensively. Thus he's a checking line player on the checking line with Draper and Filppula. What's so hard to comprehend here? Teams have roles that need filled and players fill them. Sammy does his thing on the 2nd line and 2nd PP unit and Cleary does his thing on the 3rd line and 2nd PK unit. If either player were better they would be higher up on the depth chart. That is provided they didn't price themselves off the team. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
