Battle for Roster spots getting tighter...

[Skiing - Puck 0]

For those of you that don't think we need anyone to help protect our players, here are a few instances when one of our players were nailed with a cheap shot and nothing was done about it.

Pavil Kubina cross checks Hudler in the face, Hudler needs stiches

Dallas Drake elbows Lebda in the head, Lebda has to be helped to the locker room

Ryan Johnson runs Hasek

Ville Nieminen boards Lebda, Lebda is taken off the ice on a stretcher

Cam Barker boards Cleary, Cleary needs several stitches

Mike Richards runs MacDonald

Willie Mitchell delivers blide side hit to Franzen, Franzen has a concussion

Raffi Torres delivers a blind side hit to Williams, Williams is taken of on a stretcher

Need I really continue.

[SweWings 45]

"Skating is OK for his size, but needs continued improvement ... needs to add strength to his slim 6-foot-5 frame and improve his fitness ... has not demonstrated a take-charge physical style to match his outstanding size ... could be more of a power forward if he added a hitting, grinding element ..."

Dont get me wrong, this guy has a huge upside and will be a weapon for the wings, the sky is the limit with his size combined great speed, hands, and ability to get back defensivly. However he is still developing, and I think a year or two in Grand Rapids would do wonders for this future star

Agreed.

[#1redwingfan 0]

this is a pretty pointless argument if you guys are seriously irked about who might make the 13th forward/7th defenseman. the lines are pretty much set... any of these guys pushing for a spot won't play a whole lot. its not like we only have 3 forward lines and 2 defense pairings.

[Kp-Wings 3]

The same bulls*** that continues to go on every year. Downey is hardly even given a chance, and now he's already out of the running.

Now we'll get some idiot make the team that either does nothing (Hartigan) or is an out of shape cancer (Grigorenko). All I can hope for now is Ellis makes the team, since I do like him.

Detroit doesn't need an enforcer. We need a big powerful power forward that isn't scared to mix it up at the net and get dirty, sharp hands, good vision of the ice, fast skater, and tape to tape passer.

There are only two players in the league that can do that: Breden Morrow and Nathan Horton. Neither of them are going anywhere anytime soon though, so don't expect a player of that calibre here.

Wow, so as much of a hardass as Drake is, he's just not good enough on his own, we need another player who won't add anything offensively to this team in order to appease some of you people.

Umm... look at who's trying to make the team right now. Do any of those guys really have any offensive capabilities either?

Hartigan is the one who will probably make it... and he has no offensive potential at all. Grigorenko does, but judging by his play, it looks like he'll be nothing more then Robert Lang part two.

Who else is left? Nobody. None of the guys vying for a roster spot have all that much offensive potential, so stop using that as an arguement. Downey is the only one out of the group who does something that someone else on the Wings doesn't already do: fight. That's why most people want him, because he does something that nobody else does. He'll protect his teammates, which we need.

But, I can see this makes not a damn bit of difference to anyone. We still got the delusional people who think Grigorenko is the 2nd coming of Wayne Gretzky, despite his awful training camp...

Edited September 23, 2007 by Kp-Wings

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

here we go again....i welcome you all to version 19.1 of the "Enforcer vs No Enforcer" thread.

More like version 119.1

Whenever I see yet another endless debate in here about this subject that predictably yields no results/change on the extreme sides, I usually think...

Edited September 23, 2007 by SouthernWingsFan

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Downey has been terrible on the ice. Fighting skills can't make up for that.

What have you been watching? Downeys done much better then Grigs or Hartigan, that isnt my opinon thats a fact.

It's hilarious with most of you guys, you hate guys that fight, you'd rather have some scrub like Hartigan or out of shape, slow Grigerenko.

Edited September 24, 2007 by Detroit # 1 Fan

[sticknmove 0]

well, we will actually, believe it or not, be softer then we were last year. Haha, well hunting season is open I guess. We lose Markov, Bertuzzi (for the short time we had him) and Norton. Pick up Drake, and, well no one that fancies grit hockey so its pointless naming them. so f*cking disapointing....

[FunkedUp 29]

Detroit doesn't need an enforcer. We need a big powerful power forward that isn't scared to mix it up at the net and get dirty, sharp hands, good vision of the ice, fast skater, and tape to tape passer.

We just tried that with Bertuzzi and look at how well it worked out. I suppose you could make a case and say to try again with a different player, but I don't think that its going to make a difference.

Detroit DOES need an enforcer. That hit on Holmstrom was unacceptable and uncalled for. Granted, we played Red Wings hockey that game and put up via scoreboard, but enough is enough. No one stood up after that, and it showed. That is only one instance and there are many more situations like that have plaqued Detroit since McCarty left. The addtion of an enforcer would fill that gap and help out issues that are not being addressed, and IMO being ignored/shunned.

The addition of a tough guy will not wins us cups, but it will protect our guys and add toughness to a dominant suqad.

Downey is not an enforcer, he probably wont even make the team now (I hope he does). He is however, a great crash and bang guy, and is willing to protect his teammates. He would be a good fit this year until the team finds someone more dominant. At least we would have him in the other teams face if the other team took a cheapshot at our players.

a 4th line of: Drake - Kopecky - Downey. would add some grit, and throwing them on the ice during the right situations would electrify the team.

I do think that the Red Wings management is the best in the game, but I thinki their making a mistake by not filling this gap. I honestly don't see how people could think the Red Wings DO NOT need an enforcer...

[Son of a Wing 1,644]

Whine whine whine whine whine. Seriously, you guys didn't get it all out in the offseason? Why do you guys feel the need to constatntly repeat yourself every single day in nearly every thread. We get it, you want an enforcer. You shouldn't have gotten your hopes up. I can't believe people actually think another teams players are going to think twice about their actions because we have frickin' Downey on the team. Without that he's worthless.

[omnipotent_hudler 0]

We're talking about the 13th forward slot. It won't fing matter if there's an enforcer there or not. So Downey is the 13th forward? Great! Now every time someone runs our players we can send him out.... oh wait, that's right, hes not dressed.

I see absolutely no place for an enforcer who cannot do something else(defensive forward, pk specialist, crash the net scorer) in the regular lineup.

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

Aside from the Datsyuk line, Downey was one of the best players on the ice on Friday night. How can he be considered out of the race?

Because Holland hates enforcers.

[LeftWinger 5,153]

...who's to say Downey wasn't mentioned because he already has made the team? Is there a guarantee that Kopecky will be there? I haven't heard too much about how he is in camp, maybe Kopecky isn't guaranteed a spot. But when it comes down to it, Kopecky fits Hollands mold and Downey doesn't. Like you all said, same old song and dance. I still think they should ahve invited Adam Hall to camp, he is better than Downey...

...also all this talk about the 7th d-man. I say cut Lilja and give Sopel & Quincey the spots...

Edited September 23, 2007 by LeftWinger

[ben_usmc 253]

what about kindl isn't he some up and coming badass ala Fisher reincrante

[Izzy24 44]

if the wings are gonna ice an enforcer, they're gonna do it right. it's gotta be someone like good old bob probert. they don't need an anchor, they need someone who can step in and don it all. they're gonna trade for a top 6 forward at the deadline anyways.

I think everyone would like someone like Bob Probert, but there aren't that many out there. Actually, I can't think of any.

[Skiing - Puck 0]

...who's to say Downey wasn't mentioned because he already has made the team? Is there a guarantee that Kopecky will be there? I haven't heard too much about how he is in camp, maybe Kopecky isn't guaranteed a spot. But when it comes down to it, Kopecky fits Hollands mold and Downey doesn't. Like you all said, same old song and dance. I still think they should ahve invited Adam Hall to camp, he is better than Downey...

...also all this talk about the 7th d-man. I say cut Lilja and give Sopel & Quincey the spots...

I would have liked to have see the Wings invite Bitter Beer Face (Adam Hall) to camp he reminds me alot of Drake, but a Spartan instead of a Wildcat.

I think everyone would like someone like Bob Probert, but there aren't that many out there. Actually, I can't think of any.

Off the top of my head I can not think of any pro player that has the fighting abilitys and the shot that Probie had, he was a great mix.

[chrisdetroit 189]

Why do you bring offense into this dicussion? It has nothing to do with it. People want guys like Downey and Clark because they pick up for there teammates, unlike EVERYONE on the wings, with the exception or Drake and Chelios. Downey and Clark dont need to bring offense, thats not what there for, there here to make sure other teams dont take liberties with our players everynight.

We cannot give a roster spot to a guy just to be an enforcer. He needs to be able to score. Period. The game has changed. You don't win with a bunch of goons like the Broadstreet Bullies 30 years ago.

...who's to say Downey wasn't mentioned because he already has made the team? Is there a guarantee that Kopecky will be there? I haven't heard too much about how he is in camp, maybe Kopecky isn't guaranteed a spot. But when it comes down to it, Kopecky fits Hollands mold and Downey doesn't. Like you all said, same old song and dance. I still think they should ahve invited Adam Hall to camp, he is better than Downey...

...also all this talk about the 7th d-man. I say cut Lilja and give Sopel & Quincey the spots...

Cut Lilja? Oh, you must have missed the playoffs last year.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

We cannot give a roster spot to a guy just to be an enforcer. He needs to be able to score. Period. The game has changed. You don't win with a bunch of goons like the Broadstreet Bullies 30 years ago.

Last time I checked, Anaheim lead the league in PIMS and Fighting majors, and they won the cup, So yes You can win like the Broad Street Bullies.

Expect to see more teams play like the Ducks this year, almost every team has gotten grittier in the offseason.

[sticknmove 0]

Fine I will stop whining Son of a Wing, and next year when the dirty hit parade starts, like it did throughout last year, and we have guys getting hurt, and missing games, I do not want you want to hear any whining out of you especially about suspensions, fines, etc. I mean we all saw how much suspensions help us, remember Prongers suspension after the hit on Homer! wait, nevermind..

[Izzy24 44]

Last time I checked, Anaheim lead the league in PIMS and Fighting majors, and they won the cup, So yes You can win like the Broad Street Bullies.

Expect to see more teams play like the Ducks this year, almost every team has gotten grittier in the offseason.

Yeah, but they're all classless goons, the Wings are above all that.

[ben_usmc 253]

We played gritty last year in the playoffs so thats not an issue we took the hardest road and almost survived. Calagry, San Jose, and Anahiem grit is the problem but I do think we need someone that will just straight up kick your ass if you mess with Dats or Zette. But we won't get one obviously unless he can provide more then just fighting, if we did then everyone would start bitching about how he takes stupid penelties or doesn't win every fight. The only player I wish we wouldn't have passed on last year was Laraque but oh well.

seriously Drake Kopecky Maltby line is gonna be a tough hitting line especially because Drake is bringing back old Malts and hopefully will teach Kopecky to be a damn man. Franzen is a beast and seems like he is throwing is weight around, Lilja actually realized he was kinda big last year so he is set to improve. Dats was even checking people, not to mention the tiny Cleary going nuts out on the ice. So we are looking tougher this year then we did early last year.

[Lou_Siffer 1]

Last time I checked, Anaheim lead the league in PIMS and Fighting majors, and they won the cup, So yes You can win like the Broad Street Bullies.

Expect to see more teams play like the Ducks this year, almost every team has gotten grittier in the offseason.

I hope to god more teams start playing like Anaheim. That is the only hope i have that may force the Wings to change their outlook and have some fighters. If having a bulk of toughness becomes the trend with alot of other teams around the league, they'll have to adapt.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

I hope to god more teams start playing like Anaheim. That is the only hope i have that may force the Wings to change their outlook and have some fighters. If having a bulk of toughness becomes the trend with alot of other teams around the league, they'll have to adapt.

I think alot of teams are gonna be Anaheim like this year Lou

Calgary, Edmonton, Dallas (Gonna be such an entertaining team believe you me), Phoenix, San Jose, Colorado, Philly, NYR, Ottawa. And alot more, There was a piece on TSN done about it awhile back, Darren Dreger was talking about how teams are trying to be more like Anaheim because Grit=Sucess.

[Lou_Siffer 1]

I think alot of teams are gonna be Anaheim like this year Lou

Calgary, Edmonton, Dallas (Gonna be such an entertaining team believe you me), Phoenix, San Jose, Colorado, Philly, NYR, Ottawa. And alot more, There was a piece on TSN done about it awhile back, Darren Dreger was talking about how teams are trying to be more like Anaheim because Grit=Sucess.

Oh hell yeah, ive never cared for the Stars much but theyre going to be really entertaining this year. You can definitely see theyre trying to turn into an Anaheim style team. And for that, I hope they do well.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Oh hell yeah, ive never cared for the Stars much but theyre going to be really entertaining this year. You can definitely see theyre trying to turn into an Anaheim style team. And for that, I hope they do well.

They might just be grittier then Anaheim this year Lou.

Krys Barch

Todd Fedoruk

Jeff Halpern

Steve Ott

Brendan Morrow

Brad Winchester

Nolan Baumgartner

Stephane Robidas

Thats a pretty tough squad right there. And they have lots of skill too

[LeftWinger 5,153]

badass ala Fisher reincrante

Fischer = FURTHEST thing from badass! He sucked!