Eating crow

[daniel1 32]

Downey can throw 'em, and with both hands too. If he learns how to forecheck and throw his weight around on the opposing D I think Babs will give him some more ice time. His fight tonight was well timed and had a purpose; if nothing else getting McLaren off the ice for 5 min while we didn't really lose anyone who would have been out there anyways was a huge plus for us. After the hit on Drake I hoped somebody would acknowledge that it was borderline dirty or at the very least interference as Drake didn't have and wasn't playing the puck at the time. I would go so far as saying Aaron sparked a rally for us, or at least gave us an energy boost.

I give props to McLaren for answering the call though, he could have just as easily sent Murray or Clowe to fight his battles for him.

What we ALL want is another McCarty, a guy who can fight, hit, and score but that's pretty rare. If Downey is coachable and does what Babs asks I don't see why he can't stay up with the Wings. I would send Kopecky down before Downey. Heck I would even send Huddles down for a couple games to light a fire under his ass, there doesn't seem to be any urgency to his game or desire to put the puck in the net and if he's not scoring - he's useless.

[Hatcher#2 13]

Downey did exactly what he is on this team to do tonight, he answered the bell and did a damn good job too. Im very happy to see that he is winning over alot of the fans on this board and it's good to see that. Also when i read the first post of this thread i was wondering how many posts it would take before Eva would come in and say something negative and yup there it is, why cant you just come in and say "well done Downey, you did good" or something like that. You dont even have to say give this guy a roster spot, it would just be nice to give a fighter some credit where credit is due. Keep up the goodwork Downey.

Edited October 19, 2007 by Hatcher#2

[Rob the Badger 0]

The Wings need a someone to police the ice for them. Downey can fit that role. He won't be the best in the league at it or anything, but he can contribute in ways that Kopecky can't. I've watched Kope play in GR for years, and I think that he offers very little to the Wings. When Sammie returns to the line up, make Kope a healthy scratch until you can trade him for a bag of pucks and give Downey his roster spot.

[WingNutt 12]

anyone have video of the fight?? I must have missed it not sure how, I seen the whole game I thought

[Rob the Badger 0]

anyone have video of the fight?? I must have missed it not sure how, I seen the whole game I thought

If it's not already on hockeyfights.com, it probably will be soon.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

There is nothing else he can do. Seriously. It's been well established in his career.

Downey did exactly what he was supposed to.

3 minutes per game is great.

Harold, I know there's nothing definitive about this fight but 2-2 game prior to the fight. Downey has a great go against a much taller guy and poof, we win 4-2. I smell a connection. Cmon Harold, the guy did exactly what he was supposed to do so give him props for doing his job effectively instead of trying to rain on everybody's parade. I could see you smirking at the rest of us as you typed your response. Get on the Downey bandwagon before you're left in the dust my friend. I'm saving a seat for you.

I think Downey's shift early in the second was a snapshot of him as a player. He hopped on the ice, received a pass, proceeded to pass it to the tape of a San Jose defenseman who was nowhere near any Wings or the net, and then raced across the ice to lay a hit that didn't have any bearing on the play. Yes, he did fight McLaren. That alone doesn't make him more deserving of ice time than Kopecky or Ellis as some have suggested.

I lost track of how many times Kopa fell down last night. Well, actually I didn't keep track but his very first shift he went to lay his first hit and fell down. I peed my pants hysterically and then figured it wasn't worth it to keep track anymore.

[Hank 0]

There's a big difference between having a guy on the roster who fights because he's out there to heavyweight duel and a guy who fights for a reason/cause. Tonight, Downey fought for a cause. It was needed and timed right.

Amen. That's when fighting can be used for good.

In last nights Boston-Tampa game Roy and Thornton went at it. No punches landed and it ended with one grappling the other to the ice. After the tussle was done they both patted each other and went to the box.

It really did nothing for the game as neither player had cheapshotted someone, nor was there any tom foolery occuring either. The two basically squared off to give the crowd a cheer and to show their coaches they're good for something.

That type of fight is boring.

What really made me laugh was that just before this fight occured, Bruins rookie Milan Lucic went at it with Nick Tarnasky. Both seemed to be pissed about something and both threw their hands with abandon. There was no strategy, just good 'ole knuckle chucking. It was a great fight and the fans and the players loved it. So when the Roy-Thornton fight broke out, the Bruins play-by-play guy says "Now we'll see how two experts do this. This should be better" (or something to that effect). Goon on Goon fights are almost always boring. It's because they're so good at it that there's rarely any clean punches landed. It's not like it was in the day when enforcers like Twist, Probert or McCrae genuinely disliked each other. Nowadays it seems that goons are best buddies and politely ask one another to dance.

I would rather see 1 Lucic bout than 1000 fights with the leagues top goons.

And speaking of Lucic, this kid is going to be special. He has a good skill set and he loves to throw them. Now I see why people in Boston are starting to call him Neely Jr.

I would LOVE a kid like that in Detroit!

Edited October 19, 2007 by Hank

[Mors 201]

Downey got me out of my seat, and he cut Mclaren's head which made me happy after taking Drake out of the game.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Harold, I know there's nothing definitive about this fight but 2-2 game prior to the fight. Downey has a great go against a much taller guy and poof, we win 4-2. I smell a connection. Cmon Harold, the guy did exactly what he was supposed to do so give him props for doing his job effectively instead of trying to rain on everybody's parade. I could see you smirking at the rest of us as you typed your response. Get on the Downey bandwagon before you're left in the dust my friend. I'm saving a seat for you.

I lost track of how many times Kopa fell down last night. Well, actually I didn't keep track but his very first shift he went to lay his first hit and fell down. I peed my pants hysterically and then figured it wasn't worth it to keep track anymore.

Seriously, this whole Downey thing has reached the point of absurdity. People practically falling all over themselves for a marginal NHL player who fights to a draw. All it shows is how desperate we fans are for this team to have some actual toughness.

Like I said, Downey did exactly what he was supposed to. I know you know this Gordie, but a lot of people seem to think with players that if they're good at their role at a certain level of minutes, then doubling those minutes will make them twice as good. It's completely untrue. Downey at 3 minutes is where he should be.

And people seem to be ignoring the fact that the game winning goal was scored by Ellis, who is one of the guys they were saying Babs should take ice time away from to give to the miracle on ice that is Downey.

Kopecky played almost 13 minutes, so apparently Babcock thinks he isn't quite as bad as everyone is making him out to be. Lang is gone though, so someone has to be useless on the Wings. Sammy is out of the lineup and Lilja played ok, hence kopecky. Funny how no one is talking about Hudler, who's been invisible.

I appreciate the sentiment Gordie, but that seat is gonna stay empty.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

If it's not already on hockeyfights.com, it probably will be soon.

The Red Wings savior.

[TheBadOne 0]

He played good tonight! Im really liking him and Ellis. Here's to Gratton vs. Downey whenever we play the Yotes!

Actually, Gratton's in the minors right now on a rehab assignment because he broke one of his fingers. Admittedly, he didn't break his finger playing the piano, if you catch my meaning

However, Weller, Carcillo, and Boynton are willing combatants, so there still could be some rough stuff (Carcillo Vs Drake would be a good fight.) Yet Phoenix, for being a team with fighters, doesn't really get into goon hockey that much. Add the fact that Coyotes Management kisses Detroit's ass whenever they come to town and I doubt you're going to see anything too crazy on Saturdays game.

One never knows, though...

Edited October 19, 2007 by TheBadOne

[Hockeytown Red Wings 245]

Seriously, this whole Downey thing has reached the point of absurdity. People practically falling all over themselves for a marginal NHL player who fights to a draw. All it shows is how desperate we fans are for this team to have some actual toughness.

Like I said, Downey did exactly what he was supposed to. I know you know this Gordie, but a lot of people seem to think with players that if they're good at their role at a certain level of minutes, then doubling those minutes will make them twice as good. It's completely untrue. Downey at 3 minutes is where he should be.

And people seem to be ignoring the fact that the game winning goal was scored by Ellis, who is one of the guys they were saying Babs should take ice time away from to give to the miracle on ice that is Downey.

Kopecky played almost 13 minutes, so apparently Babcock thinks he isn't quite as bad as everyone is making him out to be. Lang is gone though, so someone has to be useless on the Wings. Sammy is out of the lineup and Lilja played ok, hence kopecky. Funny how no one is talking about Hudler, who's been invisible.

I appreciate the sentiment Gordie, but that seat is gonna stay empty.

I don't get the love affair with Hudler either.

I was very happy to see Downey stick up for his teammates though. How many times were there scrums where a Sharks player was throwing rights and lefts at guys like Zetterberg and Datsyuk? For having the smallest team in the league, we're really not that fast, and outside of when Z and Dats are dominating and making the opposition look like fools, there doesn't seem to be much open space out there for us. Would I like a 6'4 240 lb. guy who can skate and score and fight? Sure, but we don't have that, so I'm hoping Downey is willing to create some space for our players by sticking up for our guys, and taking the opposition's much better players off the ice for five.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Seriously, this whole Downey thing has reached the point of absurdity. People practically falling all over themselves for a marginal NHL player who fights to a draw. All it shows is how desperate we fans are for this team to have some actual toughness.

Like I said, Downey did exactly what he was supposed to. I know you know this Gordie, but a lot of people seem to think with players that if they're good at their role at a certain level of minutes, then doubling those minutes will make them twice as good. It's completely untrue. Downey at 3 minutes is where he should be.

And people seem to be ignoring the fact that the game winning goal was scored by Ellis, who is one of the guys they were saying Babs should take ice time away from to give to the miracle on ice that is Downey.

Kopecky played almost 13 minutes, so apparently Babcock thinks he isn't quite as bad as everyone is making him out to be. Lang is gone though, so someone has to be useless on the Wings. Sammy is out of the lineup and Lilja played ok, hence kopecky. Funny how no one is talking about Hudler, who's been invisible.

I appreciate the sentiment Gordie, but that seat is gonna stay empty.

I mentioned in another thread that I think Ellis is playing far better than Kopa. I would be fine giving Ellis 10 minutes, Downey 6 and reducing Kopa's minutes to around 8-10. Seriously, we can rag on Downey all we want but what did Kopa do with his 13 minutes? Not much of anything.

[bringback91 2]

I agree with Harold about Kopy, he's the new whipping boy for sure. I've seen good forechecking from him, a few good hits, one that directly lead to Drapers goal the other night. Playing sound defensivly. I also think that Hudler should be held more accountable and up to higher standards, but LGW love's it's whipping boy's. I've gained more respect for Ellis so far this season, and the goal really has nothing to do with it. Sure he doesn't get it without his work ethic, but the goal was pure luck and doesn't go in 9 out of 10 times, and actually could've ended badly by sending an odd man rush the other way. But hey the puck went in congrats. I'm kinda inbetween everyone on Downey. Think it's silly the extent that some seem to be loving this guy, he's defenitly not the second coming of Probert or Kocur, but I agree he's the closest they have. For the whole enforcer thing to matter, I think you need to strike fear in guys, like Kocur did. Alot of the time I bet guys were thinking, "how do I not get ko'd here?" Downey don't provide that, but I was extremly happy to see someone do something about McLaren, Drake was bad enough, but Drake can somewhat handle his own (although not after that hit) but Z was crossing the line.

[Opie 308]

Didn't see the game, so I can not comment on any of it. But from the sounds of it Downey was being Downey as I have said, give aways, a fight, and 3 minutes of offense. Ladies and gentleman that is Aaron Downey.

BTW Kyle MclLren may be a big hitter (dirty usually I might add) but he is not a heavyweight fighter. Just because you are in the weight class doesn't mean you can bang with them.

I love how you guys all love Ellis now though that is funny.

A week ago I was defending Ellis getting ice time over Downey along with Kopecky. Now 7 games in Ellis is deserving a role and it is just Kopecky. Next week it will be Sammy who needs to go because Kopecky scored a goal or had a good game.

I would also like to add that the game was 2-2 when Downey fought, again I didn't see the game so I don't know what the energy was before the fight, but the point is this wasn't a 2-0 or 3-0 game then he got in a fight and the wings game back to win. It was 2-2, a lucky bounce, a bad play, or any number of things and this game ends up 3-2 either way.

But I will say, from reading this it sounds like Downey was who he will always be. A 3-4 minute guy with give aways and a fight.

He got 7 shifts and 2:42 of ice time. Par for the course.

Ellis' goal was just on sportcenter, that was BS and that is what deflated the Sharks!!!

Edited October 19, 2007 by Opie

[Spinner 6]

You need some ketchup for that crow? It makes it easier to go down.

Welcome to the fight club lol

[vangvace 12]

I know you know this Gordie, but a lot of people seem to think with players that if they're good at their role at a certain level of minutes, then doubling those minutes will make them twice as good. It's completely untrue.

Funny how no one is talking about Hudler, who's been invisible.

Fixed it for ya for Hudler post.

As for Downey. He knows his role and played accordingly. Depending on what plays out during the season. 29 games with about 2:50 of ice time per.

[bringback91 2]

Didn't see the game, so I can not comment on any of it. But from the sounds of it Downey was being Downey as I have said, give aways, a fight, and 3 minutes of offense. Ladies and gentleman that is Aaron Downey.

BTW Kyle MclLren may be a big hitter (dirty usually I might add) but he is not a heavyweight fighter. Just because you are in the weight class doesn't mean you can bang with them.

I love how you guys all love Ellis now though that is funny.

A week ago I was defending Ellis getting ice time over Downey along with Kopecky. Now 7 games in Ellis is deserving a role and it is just Kopecky. Next week it will be Sammy who needs to go because Kopecky scored a goal or had a good game.

I would also like to add that the game was 2-2 when Downey fought, again I didn't see the game so I don't know what the energy was before the fight, but the point is this wasn't a 2-0 or 3-0 game then he got in a fight and the wings game back to win. It was 2-2, a lucky bounce, a bad play, or any number of things and this game ends up 3-2 either way.

But I will say, from reading this it sounds like Downey was who he will always be. A 3-4 minute guy with give aways and a fight.

He got 7 shifts and 2:42 of ice time. Par for the course.

Honestly not really defending the guy, cause I think he should be the first sat down when everyone healthy, but I don't think he touched the puck. So he really had no give aways. He had a few solid hits, and a well timed fight that needed to be fought for that I do give him props.

Me personally, I've said before that Ellis is getting his shot cause he deserves it. I've also called him a poor man's draper. I like his work ethic but really I see him as a fourth line guy and I'll stick to that. I'm not sure anyone LOVE'S Ellis but if they do you should be happy that he's changing peoples opinions of him. I've witnessed it before with a certain player or two, and I'm betting on witnessing it again in the near future. I'll never understand the Sammy bashing, you'd think the guy is making 5 mil + with all the undue crap he takes around here.

Edited October 19, 2007 by bringback91

[esteef 2,679]

Ellis' goal was just on sportcenter, that was BS and that is what deflated the Sharks!!!

What a laugh. The Sharks, who many pick as a Cup contender this year, are suddenly "deflated" by the scoring of one goal with plenty of time left to come back in the game.

NOT!

esteef

[theman19 47]

yeah, one goal didn't sink the sharks folks,....what sunk it for them was we wouldn't stand there and take there crap. I especially loved the part where Joe Thorton had a ****** for most of the game, every 10 seconds he was complaing about something like he was menstrual.

[GMRwings1983 8,803]

Didn't see the game, so I can not comment on any of it. But from the sounds of it Downey was being Downey as I have said, give aways, a fight, and 3 minutes of offense. Ladies and gentleman that is Aaron Downey.

BTW Kyle MclLren may be a big hitter (dirty usually I might add) but he is not a heavyweight fighter. Just because you are in the weight class doesn't mean you can bang with them.

I love how you guys all love Ellis now though that is funny.

A week ago I was defending Ellis getting ice time over Downey along with Kopecky. Now 7 games in Ellis is deserving a role and it is just Kopecky. Next week it will be Sammy who needs to go because Kopecky scored a goal or had a good game.

I would also like to add that the game was 2-2 when Downey fought, again I didn't see the game so I don't know what the energy was before the fight, but the point is this wasn't a 2-0 or 3-0 game then he got in a fight and the wings game back to win. It was 2-2, a lucky bounce, a bad play, or any number of things and this game ends up 3-2 either way.

But I will say, from reading this it sounds like Downey was who he will always be. A 3-4 minute guy with give aways and a fight.

He got 7 shifts and 2:42 of ice time. Par for the course.

Ellis' goal was just on sportcenter, that was BS and that is what deflated the Sharks!!!

You're missing the point. Downey went after a guy that had been running our players all game long. That's what his job is. McLaren didn't do s*** after that.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Didn't see the game, so I can not comment on any of it. But from the sounds of it Downey was being Downey as I have said, give aways, a fight, and 3 minutes of offense. Ladies and gentleman that is Aaron Downey.

BTW Kyle MclLren may be a big hitter (dirty usually I might add) but he is not a heavyweight fighter. Just because you are in the weight class doesn't mean you can bang with them.

I love how you guys all love Ellis now though that is funny.

A week ago I was defending Ellis getting ice time over Downey along with Kopecky. Now 7 games in Ellis is deserving a role and it is just Kopecky. Next week it will be Sammy who needs to go because Kopecky scored a goal or had a good game.

I would also like to add that the game was 2-2 when Downey fought, again I didn't see the game so I don't know what the energy was before the fight, but the point is this wasn't a 2-0 or 3-0 game then he got in a fight and the wings game back to win. It was 2-2, a lucky bounce, a bad play, or any number of things and this game ends up 3-2 either way.

But I will say, from reading this it sounds like Downey was who he will always be. A 3-4 minute guy with give aways and a fight.

He got 7 shifts and 2:42 of ice time. Par for the course.

Ellis' goal was just on sportcenter, that was BS and that is what deflated the Sharks!!!

That was actually a pretty good post about Downey until you brought up the giveaways, I watched the whole game, he didnt have any ... No one can ever be given a nice comment on here, Im positive everyone on the Wings were excited after that fight, they dont say the s*** I hear on here "He's useless, he sucks, he can only fight and has alot of giveaways" Man, I dont like it.

I do love how good Ellis is playing, He should be a regular or Kopecky.

I'll never understand the Sammy bashing, you'd think the guy is making 5 mil + with all the undue crap he takes around here.

It's not about the money, it's about his play. He's not a very good player, most fans around the league dont even know who Mikeal Samuleson is, and why should they? I dont know for the life of me why he's a second liner. On most teams he wouldnt be, Babs obviously likes him, and if he does, that's fine, he is the coach, he knows what he's doing, but that doesnt make Sammy a good player.

You dont understand the bashing, I dont understand the love, what has he ever done? Nothing, a couple of decent seasons for us and SJ that's about it.

[SweWings 45]

Takes honor to admit when it's time to eat some crow. I've been there man. And with this crow eating session, atleast you can be happy while you do it. Gotta love seeing different Red Wings excelling!

Here's to hoping I won't have to do this about Hudler...

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

I really haven't read much of the responses in this thread so I'm sorry if I'm repeating/overlapping others...

Downey did his job Thursday night, nothing more/less. He deserves credit where/when it's due, and that includes what happened when he stood up and fought to stick up for his teammates.

Those who expect or want him to get more ice time though, I wouldn't expect it, at least not in the immediate future. He has to put goals/points on the board to do that I think, and he's just not that type of a player.

He's a 4th liner who will stick up for his guys when necessary and when it is warranted, and hopefully play with a conitinuous stream of energy/intensity with his limited ice time, 5-6 minutes a game. If he can beat odds even more and put points on the board, he'll get more time I think.

I was happy to see Downey stick up for his guys and drop the gloves. It wasn't like I was bouncing off the walls doing cartwheels though. I'd definitely like to see Downey continue to play, the players seem to think high of him and I like him so far, but I'm far from making spitting saliva and making drooling puddles over his play.

[bringback91 2]

It's not about the money, it's about his play. He's not a very good player, most fans around the league dont even know who Mikeal Samuleson is, and why should they? I dont know for the life of me why he's a second liner. On most teams he wouldnt be, Babs obviously likes him, and if he does, that's fine, he is the coach, he knows what he's doing, but that doesnt make Sammy a good player.

You dont understand the bashing, I dont understand the love, what has he ever done? Nothing, a couple of decent seasons for us and SJ that's about it.

Well I mean it's not like the guy's out there doing nothing like some make it out to be. Since he's came here he's had 83 pts. in 130 gp., and had 11pts. in 18 playoff games last season. Seems like good production for an unknown 3rd liner making 1.2 mil. He's never had a good season until he came to the Wings and they gave him a real chance. He played 4 games for S.J., and was a fourth line guy in Fla. and N.Y. Babcock does like him and for good reason, he plays a good game and produces. Just because he doesn't shatter peoples jaws doesn't mean he's not a decent player. Who would be promoted to a top six guy over him? Cleary's the only guy who could possibly right now, and he doesn't produce as much as Sammy. I think he'd be more well recived if his name was Mike Samuel from Yellow Knife. I don't think I've seen anyone including my self have some sort of LOVE for sammy. Just a few of us who watch and actually notice what the guy brings, and think it's silly he's turned into a whipping boy.

edit- Well we all know how smart some fans around the leauge are. I'd form my own opinions on players before looking to see how popular they are.

Edited October 22, 2007 by bringback91